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RE: [elfscript] Tengwar Primer for child

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  • Karyn Traphagen
    Thanks Danny...my replies to your comments are within brackets. ... From: d_daniel_andries@webtv.net [mailto:d_daniel_andries@webtv.net] Okay, first comments
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 5, 2003
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      Thanks Danny...my replies to your comments are within
      brackets.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: d_daniel_andries@...
      [mailto:d_daniel_andries@...]
      Okay, first comments on Quenya names:
      Your tengwar transcriptions of thúle, númen, óre, rómen are
      written as if the long vowels were short. The long vowel
      tehtar should
      be written over long carriers. Of course for thúle, númen
      and
      rómen, doubled curls could be used for long 'ó' and 'ú'.
      [[ Thanks, I have fixed this. ]]

      Also, you left hwesta sindariwa and úre off your list.
      [[ I caught this earlier today and added úre in. I purposely
      left hwesta sindarinwa off the worksheet, I'm including it
      in the primer ]]

      You misspelled _silme_ both in Roman letters and in tengwar.
      Also, you
      left the acute accent of the 'o' in _rómen_.

      [[ good eye, thanks ]]

      Personally, I would've used the later name aha ('rage') for
      the name of
      tengwa #11 rather than harma. Among other things, harma
      sounds close
      enough to hyarmen to cause misunderstanding. I speak from
      experience on
      this point!

      [[ since this is for my granddaughter, i decided I liked her
      learning something with the meaning "treasure" better than
      something with a meaning of "rage" ]]

      I think the first tengwa of _noldo_ should the tengwa noldo.
      Tolkien
      tells us the change _ñoldo_ > _noldo_ was a change of
      pronunciation;
      he gave no indication that it was accompanied by a change in
      spelling.
      As a note, according to Tolkien all the names of the tengwar
      contained
      the tengwar in question. The names of the tengwar harma,
      óre, anna,
      vilya, yanta and halla may have contained in tengwar in
      question, at
      least originally. I spell them with those tengwar.

      [[ i have tried to implement this suggestion. not sure if I
      have got halla and anna right. how do you spell them in your
      work? ]]

      I will give comments on the spellings of English words in
      tengwar in a
      later post.

      [[ I look forward to your next post. In the meantime, I've
      uploaded the primer worksheet with the changes so far. ]]

      Cuio mae, Danny.

      [[ Thanks! Karyn ]]



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    • mach
      ... Reminds me of my uncle teaching me some code when I was ten or eleven years old; I was very thrilled. Is that also her age? (I induce from your post that
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 6, 2003
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        >I am making a small tengwar primer book for my grandchild. The goal
        >is for her to learn the names of the tengwar (later she will learn
        >an English mode, so that we can write to each other).

        Reminds me of my uncle teaching me some code when I was ten or eleven years
        old; I was very thrilled. Is that also her age? (I induce from your post
        that she already knows how to spell.)



        book, hook: I'd recommend to these words with two vowel tehtar, the first
        placed on a short carrier (to keep it the same as your spelling of feather,
        mouth, air).

        treasure, breeze, tree: I'd recommend not to use an underdot for the first
        _e_ of these words, rather an acute on a short carrier (to keep it the same
        as your spelling of _feather, heart, heat_).

        treasure, breeze, region, tree: rather with rómen (to keep it the same as
        your spelling of _iron, bridge_) (alternatively, you could represent all _r_
        by óre).

        hollow, power: I'd recommend not to use úre but vala.

        one: rather with an underdot (like your spelling of _gate, name, bridge_).

        angelic, tongue: I'd recommend not to use nwalme for the _ng_ of this word
        but anga with a bar above.



        It would also be possible to use one and the same mode for both English and
        Quenya: A mode that uses calmatéma as a ch/j/sh/etc.-series, quessetéma as a
        k-series, and that places the vowel tehtar on the preceding tengwa (although
        for English, this is only attested in phonetic modes). Then, however, many
        letter names don't make much sense any more.


        suilaid
        mach
      • Karyn Traphagen
        Thanks, mach, for your comments, my replies are within brackets ... From: mach [mailto:machhezan@gmx.net] ... I was ten or eleven years old; I was very
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 7, 2003
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          Thanks, mach, for your comments, my replies are within
          brackets

          -----Original Message-----
          From: mach [mailto:machhezan@...]

          ... I was ten or eleven years
          old; I was very thrilled. Is that also her age? (I induce
          from your post
          that she already knows how to spell.)
          [[She is younger, she is just learning the Roman alphabet
          now, and I thought it would be a good to learn the Tengwar
          too. It is all like a game to her right now.]]


          book, hook: I'd recommend to these words with two vowel
          tehtar, the first
          placed on a short carrier (to keep it the same as your
          spelling of feather,
          mouth, air).

          treasure, breeze, tree: I'd recommend not to use an underdot
          for the first
          _e_ of these words, rather an acute on a short carrier (to
          keep it the same
          as your spelling of _feather, heart, heat_).

          treasure, breeze, region, tree: rather with rómen (to keep
          it the same as
          your spelling of _iron, bridge_) (alternatively, you could
          represent all _r_
          by óre).

          hollow, power: I'd recommend not to use úre but vala.

          one: rather with an underdot (like your spelling of _gate,
          name, bridge_).

          [ [I have applied these suggestions. A few were what I
          originally intended and made errors. ]]

          angelic, tongue: I'd recommend not to use nwalme for the
          _ng_ of this word
          but anga with a bar above.

          [[ I agree for angelic, but not for tongue. For me, the ng
          is pronounced very different in these words ]]

          I am getting closer. I also changed the ending so that
          _spider's_ is now _8q2%6+R_ I have learned that I must
          really not rush to post, but check more carefully first
          before asking for everyone's help. I have redone my
          worksheet and uploaded it to:
          www.birchbarkstudio.com/TengwarPrimer.gif

          Any other comments? (Danny?)
          Karyn





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