Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Tengwar Primer for child

Expand Messages
  • Karyn
    I am making a small tengwar primer book for my grandchild. The goal is for her to learn the names of the tengwar (later she will learn an English mode, so that
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 5, 2003
      I am making a small tengwar primer book for my grandchild. The goal
      is for her to learn the names of the tengwar (later she will learn
      an English mode, so that we can write to each other).

      Each page will have a tengwa, its Quenya name and English
      translation of the name. I am also transcribing the name and meaning
      into the appropriate (I hope) tengwar.

      I would appreciate any comments on the following chart that I set up
      to work from as I design the individual pages. I want to make sure
      that the tengwar is correct for each name and meaning.

      http://www.birchbarkstudio.com/TengwarPrimer.gif

      many thanks, Karyn
    • d_daniel_andries@webtv.net
      ... that the ... Okay, first comments on Quenya names: Your tengwar transcriptions of thúle, númen, óre, rómen are written as if the long vowels were
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 5, 2003
        Teithant Karyn:
        >I would appreciate any comments on the following
        >chart that I set up to work from as I design the individual
        >pages. I want to make sure
        that the
        >tengwar is correct for each name and meaning.
        >http://www.birchbarkstudio.com/TengwarPrimer.gif

        Okay, first comments on Quenya names:
        Your tengwar transcriptions of thúle, númen, óre, rómen are
        written as if the long vowels were short. The long vowel tehtar should
        be written over long carriers. Of course for thúle, númen and
        rómen, doubled curls could be used for long 'ó' and 'ú'. Also, you
        left hwesta sindariwa and úre off your list.

        You misspelled _silme_ both in Roman letters and in tengwar. Also, you
        left the acute accent of the 'o' in _rómen_.

        Personally, I would've used the later name aha ('rage') for the name of
        tengwa #11 rather than harma. Among other things, harma sounds close
        enough to hyarmen to cause misunderstanding. I speak from experience on
        this point!

        I think the first tengwa of _noldo_ should the tengwa noldo. Tolkien
        tells us the change _ñoldo_ > _noldo_ was a change of pronunciation;
        he gave no indication that it was accompanied by a change in spelling.
        As a note, according to Tolkien all the names of the tengwar contained
        the tengwar in question. The names of the tengwar harma, óre, anna,
        vilya, yanta and halla may have contained in tengwar in question, at
        least originally. I spell them with those tengwar.

        I will give comments on the spellings of English words in tengwar in a
        later post.

        Cuio mae, Danny.
      • Karyn Traphagen
        Thanks Danny...my replies to your comments are within brackets. ... From: d_daniel_andries@webtv.net [mailto:d_daniel_andries@webtv.net] Okay, first comments
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 5, 2003
          Thanks Danny...my replies to your comments are within
          brackets.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: d_daniel_andries@...
          [mailto:d_daniel_andries@...]
          Okay, first comments on Quenya names:
          Your tengwar transcriptions of thúle, númen, óre, rómen are
          written as if the long vowels were short. The long vowel
          tehtar should
          be written over long carriers. Of course for thúle, númen
          and
          rómen, doubled curls could be used for long 'ó' and 'ú'.
          [[ Thanks, I have fixed this. ]]

          Also, you left hwesta sindariwa and úre off your list.
          [[ I caught this earlier today and added úre in. I purposely
          left hwesta sindarinwa off the worksheet, I'm including it
          in the primer ]]

          You misspelled _silme_ both in Roman letters and in tengwar.
          Also, you
          left the acute accent of the 'o' in _rómen_.

          [[ good eye, thanks ]]

          Personally, I would've used the later name aha ('rage') for
          the name of
          tengwa #11 rather than harma. Among other things, harma
          sounds close
          enough to hyarmen to cause misunderstanding. I speak from
          experience on
          this point!

          [[ since this is for my granddaughter, i decided I liked her
          learning something with the meaning "treasure" better than
          something with a meaning of "rage" ]]

          I think the first tengwa of _noldo_ should the tengwa noldo.
          Tolkien
          tells us the change _ñoldo_ > _noldo_ was a change of
          pronunciation;
          he gave no indication that it was accompanied by a change in
          spelling.
          As a note, according to Tolkien all the names of the tengwar
          contained
          the tengwar in question. The names of the tengwar harma,
          óre, anna,
          vilya, yanta and halla may have contained in tengwar in
          question, at
          least originally. I spell them with those tengwar.

          [[ i have tried to implement this suggestion. not sure if I
          have got halla and anna right. how do you spell them in your
          work? ]]

          I will give comments on the spellings of English words in
          tengwar in a
          later post.

          [[ I look forward to your next post. In the meantime, I've
          uploaded the primer worksheet with the changes so far. ]]

          Cuio mae, Danny.

          [[ Thanks! Karyn ]]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mach
          ... Reminds me of my uncle teaching me some code when I was ten or eleven years old; I was very thrilled. Is that also her age? (I induce from your post that
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 6, 2003
            >I am making a small tengwar primer book for my grandchild. The goal
            >is for her to learn the names of the tengwar (later she will learn
            >an English mode, so that we can write to each other).

            Reminds me of my uncle teaching me some code when I was ten or eleven years
            old; I was very thrilled. Is that also her age? (I induce from your post
            that she already knows how to spell.)



            book, hook: I'd recommend to these words with two vowel tehtar, the first
            placed on a short carrier (to keep it the same as your spelling of feather,
            mouth, air).

            treasure, breeze, tree: I'd recommend not to use an underdot for the first
            _e_ of these words, rather an acute on a short carrier (to keep it the same
            as your spelling of _feather, heart, heat_).

            treasure, breeze, region, tree: rather with rómen (to keep it the same as
            your spelling of _iron, bridge_) (alternatively, you could represent all _r_
            by óre).

            hollow, power: I'd recommend not to use úre but vala.

            one: rather with an underdot (like your spelling of _gate, name, bridge_).

            angelic, tongue: I'd recommend not to use nwalme for the _ng_ of this word
            but anga with a bar above.



            It would also be possible to use one and the same mode for both English and
            Quenya: A mode that uses calmatéma as a ch/j/sh/etc.-series, quessetéma as a
            k-series, and that places the vowel tehtar on the preceding tengwa (although
            for English, this is only attested in phonetic modes). Then, however, many
            letter names don't make much sense any more.


            suilaid
            mach
          • Karyn Traphagen
            Thanks, mach, for your comments, my replies are within brackets ... From: mach [mailto:machhezan@gmx.net] ... I was ten or eleven years old; I was very
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 7, 2003
              Thanks, mach, for your comments, my replies are within
              brackets

              -----Original Message-----
              From: mach [mailto:machhezan@...]

              ... I was ten or eleven years
              old; I was very thrilled. Is that also her age? (I induce
              from your post
              that she already knows how to spell.)
              [[She is younger, she is just learning the Roman alphabet
              now, and I thought it would be a good to learn the Tengwar
              too. It is all like a game to her right now.]]


              book, hook: I'd recommend to these words with two vowel
              tehtar, the first
              placed on a short carrier (to keep it the same as your
              spelling of feather,
              mouth, air).

              treasure, breeze, tree: I'd recommend not to use an underdot
              for the first
              _e_ of these words, rather an acute on a short carrier (to
              keep it the same
              as your spelling of _feather, heart, heat_).

              treasure, breeze, region, tree: rather with rómen (to keep
              it the same as
              your spelling of _iron, bridge_) (alternatively, you could
              represent all _r_
              by óre).

              hollow, power: I'd recommend not to use úre but vala.

              one: rather with an underdot (like your spelling of _gate,
              name, bridge_).

              [ [I have applied these suggestions. A few were what I
              originally intended and made errors. ]]

              angelic, tongue: I'd recommend not to use nwalme for the
              _ng_ of this word
              but anga with a bar above.

              [[ I agree for angelic, but not for tongue. For me, the ng
              is pronounced very different in these words ]]

              I am getting closer. I also changed the ending so that
              _spider's_ is now _8q2%6+R_ I have learned that I must
              really not rush to post, but check more carefully first
              before asking for everyone's help. I have redone my
              worksheet and uploaded it to:
              www.birchbarkstudio.com/TengwarPrimer.gif

              Any other comments? (Danny?)
              Karyn





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.