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Re: [elfscript] Re: Tengwar Challenge 6

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  • Chris Ruzin
    ... Good suggestion. It makes sense, and is consistent with io , as you pointed out. ... In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for different
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
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      On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 5:50 AM, Mach Hezan wrote:

      > I'd suggest to write the <e> in 'ocean' on a short carrier, the same
      > as the
      > <i> in 'damnation, perfection'.

      Good suggestion. It makes sense, and is consistent with "io", as you
      pointed out.

      > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the other hand
      > should be spelled the same way; I assume you've misspelled 'fear'.

      In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for different
      letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the "ea" in "real"
      should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea" in "fear", so I split
      it. I only did it when the "ea" was followed by an "l" or "r" though.
      I take it I was mistaken. Why split "real" and not "fear"?

      > You've misspelled 'arms' the same way you misspelled 'am': with
      > nuumen. I
      > thought this were a typical mistake of handwritten tengwar! ;)

      I must've been going too fast while transcribing it. I did this in
      record time, so I should've guessed there'd be some mistakes.

      > According to DTS 5 and 10, 'is' could be written with aare, to
      > distinguish
      > between voiced and unvoiced 's', a distinction that would also apply to
      > 'rise, visible, close, paradise, lose'. Yet the King's Letters seem
      > not to
      > make this distinction, as they show the word 'his' always written with
      > silme, as well as other words such as 'wise, rose, daisy' (DTS 23
      > shows that
      > for Tolkien, 'his' and 'is' had the same voiced 's'). So your spelling
      > of
      > <s> is according to the King's Letters, and that's okay.

      I've seen it written the way I write it. And it's easier to read that
      way, for me at least.

      > This text doesn't have more misspellings than any sample by Tolkien,
      > but
      > rather less! Very good work!

      Thanks for the compliment and the great suggestions!

      Chris

      --
      Chris Ruzin
      www.chrisruzin.net


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mach Hezan
      ... Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that real and fear have a similar sound. Now when you compare the vowel of real with the one
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
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        > > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the
        > > other hand should be spelled the same way; I assume you've
        > > misspelled 'fear'.
        >
        > In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for
        > different letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the
        > "ea" in "real" should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea"
        > in "fear", so I split it. I only did it when the "ea" was
        > followed by an "l" or "r" though. I take it I was mistaken. Why
        > split "real" and not "fear"?

        Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that
        'real' and 'fear' have a similar sound. Now when you compare the
        vowel of 'real' with the one of 'wheel', then you'll note a
        difference: The vowel of 'real' is split up into two sounds, while
        the vowel of 'wheel' is a pure vowel. (Well, some English speakers
        also split that one up, but that's a secondary development, while
        'real' has two different vowels originally.)

        Now compare the vowel of 'fear' with the one of 'beer'. They're
        the same. It's true that for most English speakers, they have a
        similar sound like the one heard in 'real', but this is a
        secondary development that happens when a vowel like the one in
        'sea, bee' is followed by an 'r'. The vowel of 'fear' may happen
        to sound similar to the vowel of 'real', but because of very
        different reasons: In the case of 'real', two different vowels are
        pronounced because in this specific word, the <e> and the <a>
        don't belong together (cf. the same word in Spanish, French,
        German, etc.); in the case of 'fear', the <ea> belongs together
        but two different vowels may be pronounced because the 'r' has an
        influence on the preceding vowel sound (represented by <ea> in
        this word).

        suilaid
        mach
      • Mike
        Oddly, the ea and ee in Fear and Beer, are actually more, atleast in how I say them, much more like I.. FIR or maybe FI ER While the EA in Treason, is more
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 8, 2003
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          Oddly, the ea and ee in Fear and Beer, are actually more, atleast in
          how I say them, much more like I..

          FIR or maybe FI'ER

          While the EA in Treason, is more like the EE in Tree..

          Maybe why English spelling is in serious need for reform. But it is
          not likely to happen, since there is to a degree no standard for
          English. Other than maybe BBC English and General American (News
          Announcers English?).

          Mike


          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Mach Hezan <machhezan@g...> wrote:
          > > > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the
          > > > other hand should be spelled the same way; I assume you've
          > > > misspelled 'fear'.
          > >
          > > In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for
          > > different letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the
          > > "ea" in "real" should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea"
          > > in "fear", so I split it. I only did it when the "ea" was
          > > followed by an "l" or "r" though. I take it I was mistaken. Why
          > > split "real" and not "fear"?
          >
          > Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that
          > 'real' and 'fear' have a similar sound. Now when you compare the
          > vowel of 'real' with the one of 'wheel', then you'll note a
          > difference: The vowel of 'real' is split up into two sounds, while
          > the vowel of 'wheel' is a pure vowel. (Well, some English speakers
          > also split that one up, but that's a secondary development, while
          > 'real' has two different vowels originally.)
          >
          > Now compare the vowel of 'fear' with the one of 'beer'. They're
          > the same. It's true that for most English speakers, they have a
          > similar sound like the one heard in 'real', but this is a
          > secondary development that happens when a vowel like the one in
          > 'sea, bee' is followed by an 'r'. The vowel of 'fear' may happen
          > to sound similar to the vowel of 'real', but because of very
          > different reasons: In the case of 'real', two different vowels are
          > pronounced because in this specific word, the <e> and the <a>
          > don't belong together (cf. the same word in Spanish, French,
          > German, etc.); in the case of 'fear', the <ea> belongs together
          > but two different vowels may be pronounced because the 'r' has an
          > influence on the preceding vowel sound (represented by <ea> in
          > this word).
          >
          > suilaid
          > mach
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