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Re: [elfscript] Tengwar Challenge 6

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  • squizz slade
    Chris, in regard to the quenya fonts that you have where are they available? Grace and I are just starting to study quenya together and we are pretty unsure
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2003
      Chris,
      in regard to the quenya fonts that you have where are
      they available? Grace and I are just starting to
      study quenya together and we are pretty unsure as to
      what we should be doing, we have downloaded one
      program ald.

      Thanks for your time

      Squizz :)

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    • Chris Ruzin
      ... I found my fonts here: http://www.tengwar.art.pl/fonty.php. Don t download anything below Elfica. As far as I know, none of those fonts are organized the
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2003
        On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 1:48 AM, squizz slade wrote:

        > in regard to the quenya fonts that you have where are
        > they available?

        I found my fonts here: http://www.tengwar.art.pl/fonty.php. Don't
        download anything below Elfica. As far as I know, none of those fonts
        are organized the same way as the top 6. Meaning if you get used to
        using the top 6 and then try to use the others, you'll get different
        text.

        Also, make sure and read this:
        http://www.sci.fi/~alboin/tengwartutorial.htm.

        Have fun learning together!
        Chris

        --
        Chris Ruzin
        www.chrisruzin.net


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mach Hezan
        I d suggest to write the in ocean on a short carrier, the same as the in damnation, perfection . The ea in treason, sea on one hand and in
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
          I'd suggest to write the <e> in 'ocean' on a short carrier, the same as the
          <i> in 'damnation, perfection'.

          The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the other hand
          should be spelled the same way; I assume you've misspelled 'fear'.

          You've misspelled 'arms' the same way you misspelled 'am': with nuumen. I
          thought this were a typical mistake of handwritten tengwar! ;)

          According to DTS 5 and 10, 'is' could be written with aare, to distinguish
          between voiced and unvoiced 's', a distinction that would also apply to
          'rise, visible, close, paradise, lose'. Yet the King's Letters seem not to
          make this distinction, as they show the word 'his' always written with
          silme, as well as other words such as 'wise, rose, daisy' (DTS 23 shows that
          for Tolkien, 'his' and 'is' had the same voiced 's'). So your spelling of
          <s> is according to the King's Letters, and that's okay.

          This text doesn't have more misspellings than any sample by Tolkien, but
          rather less! Very good work!

          suilaid
          mach
        • Chris Ruzin
          ... Good suggestion. It makes sense, and is consistent with io , as you pointed out. ... In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for different
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
            On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 5:50 AM, Mach Hezan wrote:

            > I'd suggest to write the <e> in 'ocean' on a short carrier, the same
            > as the
            > <i> in 'damnation, perfection'.

            Good suggestion. It makes sense, and is consistent with "io", as you
            pointed out.

            > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the other hand
            > should be spelled the same way; I assume you've misspelled 'fear'.

            In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for different
            letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the "ea" in "real"
            should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea" in "fear", so I split
            it. I only did it when the "ea" was followed by an "l" or "r" though.
            I take it I was mistaken. Why split "real" and not "fear"?

            > You've misspelled 'arms' the same way you misspelled 'am': with
            > nuumen. I
            > thought this were a typical mistake of handwritten tengwar! ;)

            I must've been going too fast while transcribing it. I did this in
            record time, so I should've guessed there'd be some mistakes.

            > According to DTS 5 and 10, 'is' could be written with aare, to
            > distinguish
            > between voiced and unvoiced 's', a distinction that would also apply to
            > 'rise, visible, close, paradise, lose'. Yet the King's Letters seem
            > not to
            > make this distinction, as they show the word 'his' always written with
            > silme, as well as other words such as 'wise, rose, daisy' (DTS 23
            > shows that
            > for Tolkien, 'his' and 'is' had the same voiced 's'). So your spelling
            > of
            > <s> is according to the King's Letters, and that's okay.

            I've seen it written the way I write it. And it's easier to read that
            way, for me at least.

            > This text doesn't have more misspellings than any sample by Tolkien,
            > but
            > rather less! Very good work!

            Thanks for the compliment and the great suggestions!

            Chris

            --
            Chris Ruzin
            www.chrisruzin.net


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mach Hezan
            ... Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that real and fear have a similar sound. Now when you compare the vowel of real with the one
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
              > > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the
              > > other hand should be spelled the same way; I assume you've
              > > misspelled 'fear'.
              >
              > In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for
              > different letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the
              > "ea" in "real" should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea"
              > in "fear", so I split it. I only did it when the "ea" was
              > followed by an "l" or "r" though. I take it I was mistaken. Why
              > split "real" and not "fear"?

              Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that
              'real' and 'fear' have a similar sound. Now when you compare the
              vowel of 'real' with the one of 'wheel', then you'll note a
              difference: The vowel of 'real' is split up into two sounds, while
              the vowel of 'wheel' is a pure vowel. (Well, some English speakers
              also split that one up, but that's a secondary development, while
              'real' has two different vowels originally.)

              Now compare the vowel of 'fear' with the one of 'beer'. They're
              the same. It's true that for most English speakers, they have a
              similar sound like the one heard in 'real', but this is a
              secondary development that happens when a vowel like the one in
              'sea, bee' is followed by an 'r'. The vowel of 'fear' may happen
              to sound similar to the vowel of 'real', but because of very
              different reasons: In the case of 'real', two different vowels are
              pronounced because in this specific word, the <e> and the <a>
              don't belong together (cf. the same word in Spanish, French,
              German, etc.); in the case of 'fear', the <ea> belongs together
              but two different vowels may be pronounced because the 'r' has an
              influence on the preceding vowel sound (represented by <ea> in
              this word).

              suilaid
              mach
            • Mike
              Oddly, the ea and ee in Fear and Beer, are actually more, atleast in how I say them, much more like I.. FIR or maybe FI ER While the EA in Treason, is more
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 8, 2003
                Oddly, the ea and ee in Fear and Beer, are actually more, atleast in
                how I say them, much more like I..

                FIR or maybe FI'ER

                While the EA in Treason, is more like the EE in Tree..

                Maybe why English spelling is in serious need for reform. But it is
                not likely to happen, since there is to a degree no standard for
                English. Other than maybe BBC English and General American (News
                Announcers English?).

                Mike


                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Mach Hezan <machhezan@g...> wrote:
                > > > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the
                > > > other hand should be spelled the same way; I assume you've
                > > > misspelled 'fear'.
                > >
                > > In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for
                > > different letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the
                > > "ea" in "real" should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea"
                > > in "fear", so I split it. I only did it when the "ea" was
                > > followed by an "l" or "r" though. I take it I was mistaken. Why
                > > split "real" and not "fear"?
                >
                > Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that
                > 'real' and 'fear' have a similar sound. Now when you compare the
                > vowel of 'real' with the one of 'wheel', then you'll note a
                > difference: The vowel of 'real' is split up into two sounds, while
                > the vowel of 'wheel' is a pure vowel. (Well, some English speakers
                > also split that one up, but that's a secondary development, while
                > 'real' has two different vowels originally.)
                >
                > Now compare the vowel of 'fear' with the one of 'beer'. They're
                > the same. It's true that for most English speakers, they have a
                > similar sound like the one heard in 'real', but this is a
                > secondary development that happens when a vowel like the one in
                > 'sea, bee' is followed by an 'r'. The vowel of 'fear' may happen
                > to sound similar to the vowel of 'real', but because of very
                > different reasons: In the case of 'real', two different vowels are
                > pronounced because in this specific word, the <e> and the <a>
                > don't belong together (cf. the same word in Spanish, French,
                > German, etc.); in the case of 'fear', the <ea> belongs together
                > but two different vowels may be pronounced because the 'r' has an
                > influence on the preceding vowel sound (represented by <ea> in
                > this word).
                >
                > suilaid
                > mach
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