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Tengwar Challenge 6

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  • Chris Ruzin
    The 6th Tengwar Challenge is up. This is one of my favorite poems. The only word I m not sure I wrote correctly is ocean .
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2003
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      The 6th Tengwar Challenge is up. This is one of my favorite poems.
      The only word I'm not sure I wrote correctly is "ocean".

      http://www.chrisruzin.net/comments/963_0_1_0_C/

      Thanks!
      Chris

      --
      Chris Ruzin
      www.chrisruzin.net
    • squizz slade
      Chris, in regard to the quenya fonts that you have where are they available? Grace and I are just starting to study quenya together and we are pretty unsure
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 1, 2003
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        Chris,
        in regard to the quenya fonts that you have where are
        they available? Grace and I are just starting to
        study quenya together and we are pretty unsure as to
        what we should be doing, we have downloaded one
        program ald.

        Thanks for your time

        Squizz :)

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      • Chris Ruzin
        ... I found my fonts here: http://www.tengwar.art.pl/fonty.php. Don t download anything below Elfica. As far as I know, none of those fonts are organized the
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 2, 2003
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          On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 1:48 AM, squizz slade wrote:

          > in regard to the quenya fonts that you have where are
          > they available?

          I found my fonts here: http://www.tengwar.art.pl/fonty.php. Don't
          download anything below Elfica. As far as I know, none of those fonts
          are organized the same way as the top 6. Meaning if you get used to
          using the top 6 and then try to use the others, you'll get different
          text.

          Also, make sure and read this:
          http://www.sci.fi/~alboin/tengwartutorial.htm.

          Have fun learning together!
          Chris

          --
          Chris Ruzin
          www.chrisruzin.net


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mach Hezan
          I d suggest to write the in ocean on a short carrier, the same as the in damnation, perfection . The ea in treason, sea on one hand and in
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
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            I'd suggest to write the <e> in 'ocean' on a short carrier, the same as the
            <i> in 'damnation, perfection'.

            The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the other hand
            should be spelled the same way; I assume you've misspelled 'fear'.

            You've misspelled 'arms' the same way you misspelled 'am': with nuumen. I
            thought this were a typical mistake of handwritten tengwar! ;)

            According to DTS 5 and 10, 'is' could be written with aare, to distinguish
            between voiced and unvoiced 's', a distinction that would also apply to
            'rise, visible, close, paradise, lose'. Yet the King's Letters seem not to
            make this distinction, as they show the word 'his' always written with
            silme, as well as other words such as 'wise, rose, daisy' (DTS 23 shows that
            for Tolkien, 'his' and 'is' had the same voiced 's'). So your spelling of
            <s> is according to the King's Letters, and that's okay.

            This text doesn't have more misspellings than any sample by Tolkien, but
            rather less! Very good work!

            suilaid
            mach
          • Chris Ruzin
            ... Good suggestion. It makes sense, and is consistent with io , as you pointed out. ... In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for different
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
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              On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 5:50 AM, Mach Hezan wrote:

              > I'd suggest to write the <e> in 'ocean' on a short carrier, the same
              > as the
              > <i> in 'damnation, perfection'.

              Good suggestion. It makes sense, and is consistent with "io", as you
              pointed out.

              > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the other hand
              > should be spelled the same way; I assume you've misspelled 'fear'.

              In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for different
              letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the "ea" in "real"
              should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea" in "fear", so I split
              it. I only did it when the "ea" was followed by an "l" or "r" though.
              I take it I was mistaken. Why split "real" and not "fear"?

              > You've misspelled 'arms' the same way you misspelled 'am': with
              > nuumen. I
              > thought this were a typical mistake of handwritten tengwar! ;)

              I must've been going too fast while transcribing it. I did this in
              record time, so I should've guessed there'd be some mistakes.

              > According to DTS 5 and 10, 'is' could be written with aare, to
              > distinguish
              > between voiced and unvoiced 's', a distinction that would also apply to
              > 'rise, visible, close, paradise, lose'. Yet the King's Letters seem
              > not to
              > make this distinction, as they show the word 'his' always written with
              > silme, as well as other words such as 'wise, rose, daisy' (DTS 23
              > shows that
              > for Tolkien, 'his' and 'is' had the same voiced 's'). So your spelling
              > of
              > <s> is according to the King's Letters, and that's okay.

              I've seen it written the way I write it. And it's easier to read that
              way, for me at least.

              > This text doesn't have more misspellings than any sample by Tolkien,
              > but
              > rather less! Very good work!

              Thanks for the compliment and the great suggestions!

              Chris

              --
              Chris Ruzin
              www.chrisruzin.net


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mach Hezan
              ... Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that real and fear have a similar sound. Now when you compare the vowel of real with the one
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
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                > > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the
                > > other hand should be spelled the same way; I assume you've
                > > misspelled 'fear'.
                >
                > In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for
                > different letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the
                > "ea" in "real" should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea"
                > in "fear", so I split it. I only did it when the "ea" was
                > followed by an "l" or "r" though. I take it I was mistaken. Why
                > split "real" and not "fear"?

                Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that
                'real' and 'fear' have a similar sound. Now when you compare the
                vowel of 'real' with the one of 'wheel', then you'll note a
                difference: The vowel of 'real' is split up into two sounds, while
                the vowel of 'wheel' is a pure vowel. (Well, some English speakers
                also split that one up, but that's a secondary development, while
                'real' has two different vowels originally.)

                Now compare the vowel of 'fear' with the one of 'beer'. They're
                the same. It's true that for most English speakers, they have a
                similar sound like the one heard in 'real', but this is a
                secondary development that happens when a vowel like the one in
                'sea, bee' is followed by an 'r'. The vowel of 'fear' may happen
                to sound similar to the vowel of 'real', but because of very
                different reasons: In the case of 'real', two different vowels are
                pronounced because in this specific word, the <e> and the <a>
                don't belong together (cf. the same word in Spanish, French,
                German, etc.); in the case of 'fear', the <ea> belongs together
                but two different vowels may be pronounced because the 'r' has an
                influence on the preceding vowel sound (represented by <ea> in
                this word).

                suilaid
                mach
              • Mike
                Oddly, the ea and ee in Fear and Beer, are actually more, atleast in how I say them, much more like I.. FIR or maybe FI ER While the EA in Treason, is more
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 8, 2003
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                  Oddly, the ea and ee in Fear and Beer, are actually more, atleast in
                  how I say them, much more like I..

                  FIR or maybe FI'ER

                  While the EA in Treason, is more like the EE in Tree..

                  Maybe why English spelling is in serious need for reform. But it is
                  not likely to happen, since there is to a degree no standard for
                  English. Other than maybe BBC English and General American (News
                  Announcers English?).

                  Mike


                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Mach Hezan <machhezan@g...> wrote:
                  > > > The 'ea' in 'treason, sea' on one hand and in 'fear' on the
                  > > > other hand should be spelled the same way; I assume you've
                  > > > misspelled 'fear'.
                  > >
                  > > In your earlier post about what tengwa or tehta to use for
                  > > different letters and their combinations, you mentioned that the
                  > > "ea" in "real" should be split. It sounded similar to the "ea"
                  > > in "fear", so I split it. I only did it when the "ea" was
                  > > followed by an "l" or "r" though. I take it I was mistaken. Why
                  > > split "real" and not "fear"?
                  >
                  > Now I see your reason. You have a good ear when you hear that
                  > 'real' and 'fear' have a similar sound. Now when you compare the
                  > vowel of 'real' with the one of 'wheel', then you'll note a
                  > difference: The vowel of 'real' is split up into two sounds, while
                  > the vowel of 'wheel' is a pure vowel. (Well, some English speakers
                  > also split that one up, but that's a secondary development, while
                  > 'real' has two different vowels originally.)
                  >
                  > Now compare the vowel of 'fear' with the one of 'beer'. They're
                  > the same. It's true that for most English speakers, they have a
                  > similar sound like the one heard in 'real', but this is a
                  > secondary development that happens when a vowel like the one in
                  > 'sea, bee' is followed by an 'r'. The vowel of 'fear' may happen
                  > to sound similar to the vowel of 'real', but because of very
                  > different reasons: In the case of 'real', two different vowels are
                  > pronounced because in this specific word, the <e> and the <a>
                  > don't belong together (cf. the same word in Spanish, French,
                  > German, etc.); in the case of 'fear', the <ea> belongs together
                  > but two different vowels may be pronounced because the 'r' has an
                  > influence on the preceding vowel sound (represented by <ea> in
                  > this word).
                  >
                  > suilaid
                  > mach
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