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Tengwar Challenge 5

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  • Chris Ruzin
    OK, the fifth Tengwar Challenge is up at http://www.chrisruzin.net/comments/962_0_1_0_C/. This time, there s only one word I m not sure about, a-swing . I m
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 27, 2003
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      OK, the fifth Tengwar Challenge is up at
      http://www.chrisruzin.net/comments/962_0_1_0_C/. This time, there's
      only one word I'm not sure about, "a-swing".

      I''m also trying to figure out when (and if) I should use compound
      carriers in place of diphthongs. Take for example 'ea':

      • "heaven" - short e, silent a (a compound carrier makes sense here)
      • "sea" - long e, silent a (right now I write it the same as in
      "earth", but because it sounds different, should I write it different?)
      • "heart" - silent e, short a (I write it with an e-tehta over a
      carrier, and the a-tehta over 'ore', but there are other options)
      • "earth" - short u (I know Tolkien used e-tehta over stemless 'calma'
      for this, so I will to)

      Take care,
      Chris

      --
      Chris Ruzin
      www.chrisruzin.net
    • Mach Hezan
      ... I d suggest that it doesn t depend on the pronunciation, but only on whether it s one syllable or two: One syllable - one sign; two syllables - two signs.
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 28, 2003
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        Chris teithant:
        > I''m also trying to figure out when (and if) I should use compound
        > carriers in place of diphthongs. Take for example 'ea':

        I'd suggest that it doesn't depend on the pronunciation, but only on whether
        it's one syllable or two: One syllable - one sign; two syllables - two
        signs. According to this I'd write the <ea> of all 'heaven, sea, heart,
        earth' with one sign (stemless calma + acute), but the <ea> of 'real,
        theater' with two signs (short carrier + acute, a-tehta on the next sign).
        The same with 'blue' - one sign - vs. 'cruel' - two signs.

        I'm recommending this because I believe that there's a basic relation
        between vowel tehtar and syllables: one syllable - one vowel tehta. (I know
        that there are some examples of more than one vowel tehta in the same
        syllable, but I think they're all exceptions.)

        Concerning the challenge: As far as I've understood the words, I've only one
        comment:

        I'd spell the <er> in 'keener' with oore and a point below, as this is the
        most common spelling of the '-er' ending. The explanation's simple: The 'e'
        is mute, because the 'r' functions as a vowel, similar to the 'm' in
        'rhythm'.

        suilaid
        mach
      • DDanielA@webtv.net
        Very few notes, really. Sympathy: th is voiceless, so it should be thúle rather than anto. river, keener: The e of er in both should be written as a dot
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 31, 2003
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          Very few notes, really.

          Sympathy: 'th' is voiceless, so it should be thúle rather than anto.

          river, keener: The 'e' of 'er' in both should be written as a dot under
          the preceding consonant.

          with (in 'with a keener sting'): Also voiceless 'th', so thúle here.

          a-swing: To be absolutely consistant you should've used silme rather
          than silme nuquerna to represent the 's'. However, in this case the
          combination of tehtar would've been very awkward over silme, so using
          the silme nuquerna instead was a wise move!

          Other possible considerations:
          Dunbar: I would've written 'n' with númen rather than the nasal tehta
          since umbar + nasal tehta = 'mb' rather than 'nb'. Use the nasal tehta
          only if the nasal you need is in the téma as the following consonant.
          Otherwise, write the nasal with a separate tengwa.

          by: Following the twice-attested example in the title page inscription,
          I write 'by' with a long carrier. By analogy, I use the long carrier in
          words like 'my', 'dying', 'trying', etc. Only in monosyllables where 'y'
          = [ai], or in present participles where 'ie' = [ai] > 'y'.

          All in all, good job!

          Cuio mae, Danny.
        • Chris Ruzin
          ... I figured this was best because it looked best. The other way looked absolutely awful. ... I ll try to keep this in mind in the future. ... In the title
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 1, 2003
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            On Sunday, August 31, 2003, at 9:43 AM, DDanielA@... wrote:

            > a-swing: To be absolutely consistant you should've used silme rather
            > than silme nuquerna to represent the 's'. However, in this case the
            > combination of tehtar would've been very awkward over silme, so using
            > the silme nuquerna instead was a wise move!

            I figured this was best because it looked best. The other way looked
            absolutely awful.

            > Other possible considerations:
            > Dunbar: I would've written 'n' with númen rather than the nasal tehta
            > since umbar + nasal tehta = 'mb' rather than 'nb'. Use the nasal tehta
            > only if the nasal you need is in the téma as the following consonant.
            > Otherwise, write the nasal with a separate tengwa.

            I'll try to keep this in mind in the future.

            > by: Following the twice-attested example in the title page inscription,
            > I write 'by' with a long carrier. By analogy, I use the long carrier in
            > words like 'my', 'dying', 'trying', etc. Only in monosyllables where
            > 'y'
            > = [ai], or in present participles where 'ie' = [ai] > 'y'.

            In the title page inscription, Tolkien wrote 'by' the same way I do.
            He also used the same short carrier with y-tehta in the 1st Hugh Brogan
            letter.

            > All in all, good job!

            Excellent! Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully these challenges are
            helping others

            --
            Chris Ruzin
            www.chrisruzin.net


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