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Re: [elfscript] Re: Devanagari: An Inspiration for the Tengwar?

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  • DDanielA@webtv.net
    I ve always thought that the tengwar bear a resemblance to the Syriac script. It s more cursive in appearance than Hebrew, but not not to the same extent as
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 8, 2001
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    • Abrigon
      Well, since JRRT was either born or raised until like age 10 (?) in South Africa, and they have a large Indian population. I suspect he had some aquaintence
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
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        Well, since JRRT was either born or raised until like age 10 (?) in
        South Africa, and they have a large Indian population. I suspect he
        had some aquaintence with it before he became a professor.

        Sanskrit is more a syllybary than an alphabet. But I have noticed the
        similiar look before. But from what I have read, there was a gentleman
        in England some 20 years before Tolkien that had an Alphabet that was
        almost exectly in form to Tengwar, maybe not in values.

        Mike
      • Abrigon
        Well, what we call Hebrew (the script) is only one of many scripts the speakers of Hebrew have used from ancient Egyptian times to recent. To include the same
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
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          Well, what we call Hebrew (the script) is only one of many scripts the
          speakers of Hebrew have used from ancient Egyptian times to recent. To
          include the same used for Arabic (modern), as well as Aramaic (the
          original script they used was more closed in form, and they adopted
          the Aramaic form.

          Diecritical marks, well have been around for a while, mostly in lingos
          like Arabic and Hebrew as ways to show vowels and like that are often
          not needed by fluent readers of the above lingos.

          From memory diacritical marks for Hebrew/Arabic were not used much
          until sometime after the 16th century (I forget when).

          Mike
          aka Morgoth, I like how it rolls of the tongue. And from what I can
          tell, it means like "Dark" "Goth(person)".
        • Abrigon
          Universal Alphabet, I remember it now, yes it looks alot like Tengwar in form. Might check Uighur/Tibetan/Mongol/Manchu direction of the lingos that came form
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
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            Universal Alphabet, I remember it now, yes it looks alot like Tengwar
            in form.

            Might check Uighur/Tibetan/Mongol/Manchu direction of the lingos that
            came form the one for Sanskrit/Prakit.

            It can be an interesting inspiration for a lingo, since it is up/down,
            and right to left. But the decenders can give you some nice
            calligraphy.

            Mike
          • Abrigon
            http://homepage1.nifty.com/hobbit/english/tolkien/tengwar/index.html Examples of Tengwar, most importantly, of Japanese (Sorry no Dev)
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
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              http://homepage1.nifty.com/hobbit/english/tolkien/tengwar/index.html

              Examples of Tengwar, most importantly, of Japanese (Sorry no Dev)


              http://www.omniglot.com/writing/devanagari.htm

              Has charts and all of the script, as well as a history, from the time
              of Brahmi.

              http://www.aczone.com/itrans/dvng/node3.html

              Another one, is aligned differently, but okay.
              This one is interesting, cause it shows the numerals, which are the
              origin of our "Arabic" numbers.

              http://cres20.anu.edu.au/~mccomas/devanagari.html

              Another one from a book.

              I do think I need to find my sources for Tibetan and other scriptos.

              I wish I had my "Elvish" books, lost it a while back in Canada.

              http://www.aczone.com/ilkeyb/ A keyboard program, might be interesting
              to see the source code and all, and see if it can be modified for
              Tengwar?

              Mike
            • Abrigon
              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9594/tibet.html It has much forms in common with Tengwar to including some of it s diacritical marks are the same, or
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
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                http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9594/tibet.html

                It has much forms in common with Tengwar to including some of it's
                diacritical marks are the same, or close. Could also be an inspiration
                for calligraphy.

                Tibetan
              • John Cowan
                ... Suure. Actually, it means Black Enemy . -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org Please leave your values |
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 16, 2001
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                  Abrigon scripsit:

                  > aka Morgoth, I like how it rolls of the tongue. And from what I can
                  > tell, it means like "Dark" "Goth(person)".

                  Suure.

                  Actually, it means "Black Enemy".

                  --
                  John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@...
                  Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In fact,
                  at the front desk. | check your assumptions at the door.
                  --sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan
                • Abrigon
                  Black Enemy, do you mean in the Elvish or do you mean in Gothic. The people who gave the name Goth to the language, but who were themselves very civilized once
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 17, 2001
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                    Black Enemy, do you mean in the Elvish or do you mean in Gothic.

                    The people who gave the name Goth to the language, but who were
                    themselves very civilized once they settled down, but sadly most when
                    they became christian, became Arian Christian, which to Catholics was
                    a heresy, same with their cousins the Vandals, who have the same
                    dislike in the western world. Even if it was the now Catholic
                    Visigoths who fell to the might of Islam in Spain. The goths existed
                    in the Crimea until around 1700, or so the stories go.

                    Goth is a Eastern Germanic lingo, verus the English/German being
                    Western Germanic, and Norse (and related tongues) as Northern
                    Germanic.

                    Mike
                    In Sindarian/Quenya it did mean the Black Enemy/Dark Enemy, while his
                    first name was Melkor, one who arises in might.. But after Feanor was
                    mindly corrupted by him, as well as cause Feanor to revolt against the
                    Vala, he was named Morgoth. Partially for his killing of Feanors
                    father, as well as poisoning the one tree and like. so that the only
                    light of the one tree in the world was the Silmarill.

                    --- In elfscript@y..., John Cowan <cowan@c...> wrote:
                    > Abrigon scripsit:
                    >
                    > > aka Morgoth, I like how it rolls of the tongue. And from what I
                    can
                    > > tell, it means like "Dark" "Goth(person)".
                    >
                    > Suure.
                    >
                    > Actually, it means "Black Enemy".
                    >
                    > --
                    > John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
                    cowan@c...
                    > Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In
                    fact,
                    > at the front desk. | check your assumptions at
                    the door.
                    > --sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan
                  • abrigon
                    We do need to remember Prof Tolkien was raised in part in South Africa, that has a large east indian population, atleast one time.. It is also where Gandhi
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 31, 2003
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                      We do need to remember Prof Tolkien was raised in part in South
                      Africa, that has a large east indian population, atleast one time.. It
                      is also where Gandhi learned a bit of his lawyer ways..

                      Not likely the Prof and Ganghi knew each other, but they had some
                      similar exposure in a same time/place..

                      Also seen in one of my books, a script by another English professor
                      that looks alot like the later Tengwar.. Not sure of it's origin and
                      all..

                      Mike
                    • John Cowan
                      ... Tolkien was born in S.A. and left there at age 4. Gandhi arrived at age 23 and left at age 44. Not much common ground there! -- John Cowan
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 1 3:07 AM
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                        abrigon scripsit:

                        > We do need to remember Prof Tolkien was raised in part in South
                        > Africa, that has a large east indian population, atleast one time.. It
                        > is also where Gandhi learned a bit of his lawyer ways..

                        Tolkien was born in S.A. and left there at age 4. Gandhi arrived at age
                        23 and left at age 44. Not much common ground there!

                        --
                        John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@...
                        To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There
                        are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language
                        that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful.
                        --_The Hobbit_
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