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Re: [elfscript] Re: Help with some words...

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  • John Cowan
    ... Sometimes pronounced as in George , where the e is really indicating that the preceding g is fricative. The other, and very important, digraph in -o
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 17, 2003
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      DDanielA@... scripsit:

      > >I think there are no vowel digraphs ending on
      > >-o (though I'm not sure).
      >
      > One comes to mind: the 'eo' in 'people'.

      Sometimes pronounced as in "George", where the "e" is really indicating
      that the preceding "g" is fricative.

      The other, and very important, digraph in -o is of course "oo".

      > Mmm ... I wouldn't. To my mind, úre is too associated with 'u' and 'w'
      > to suggest the 'o' element of a digraph. Maybe that's just me.

      In Hebrew, the letter "vav" can represent /w/, /u/, /o/, or even /v/.

      Hebrew writing is essentially very close to Tengwar, except that normally
      only the tengwar (in the sense "consonant letters") are used. There is
      a full system of tehtar, and while no full mode exists, certain tengwar
      are recycled as vowel letters and as the short carrier. (Yiddish adopted
      a full mode as its standard writing system.)

      In particular, if the tengwa "vav" (ancestrally "w") has an o-tehta on it,
      then it can be read /vo/ or just /o/, depending on whether the the
      vav is functioning as a consonant or a vowel. If there's a dot in the
      middle of it, it typically means the vav is a /u/, but can also on
      rare occasions indicate that the vav is /vv/.

      --
      Even a refrigerator can conform to the XML John Cowan
      Infoset, as long as it has a door sticker jcowan@...
      saying "No information items inside". http://www.reutershealth.com
      --Eve Maler http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
    • Mach Hezan
      ... I had already begun a reply where I wanted to point out that this e might be left away (as well as the u in guest, guild ) since the tengwar offer the
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 19, 2003
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        John Cowan imaelavit:
        > Sometimes pronounced as in "George", where the "e" is really indicating
        > that the preceding "g" is fricative.

        I had already begun a reply where I wanted to point out that this 'e' might
        be left away (as well as the 'u' in 'guest, guild') since the tengwar offer
        the choice between anga and ungwe for a transcription of the latin/roman
        letter <g>, according to its pronunciation. But then I checked again the
        attested samples and found that the letter <g> is always rendered with
        ungwe, and anga represents always the letter <j>. That surprised me, because
        I had been quite convinced of this assumption which turns out to be an
        invention. Or have I overlooked any sample where the letter <g> is
        transcribed with anga?

        Anyway, here another intent for a one-sign transcription of vowel digraphs,
        taking into account your replies:

        "-i/y: anna
        -e: yanta; but <ee> with a doubled acute
        -a: stemless calma
        -o: uure; but <oo> with a doubled right-curl
        -u/w: vala

        "Note that in some cases, an <u> or an <e> belongs rather together with the
        preceding consonant letter. Therefore, they should be transcribed together
        with that letter. For this <u>, use the inverted tilde above (following-w
        sign), for this <e> use the single point below.

        "Note that in some cases, the two vowel letters can be analysed as belonging
        to different syllables. Then, of course, the one-sign transcription isn't
        adequate. E.g. 'client, brilliant, really'. For historical reasons, I'd also
        suggest to handle words such as 'special' and words such as 'ladies,
        replies, lie' like this."

        suilaid
        mach hezan
      • DDanielA@webtv.net
        ... short carrier + acute accent - lambe + acute accent - númen / silme + double dots - lambe + circumflex accent / lambe + double left curl - malta + acute
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 22, 2003
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          Teithant Lothenon:
          >But would you, Danny, mind to tell us how Tolkien
          >wrote the Quenya- part in this very case?

          short carrier + acute accent - lambe + acute accent - númen / silme +
          double dots - lambe + circumflex accent / lambe + double left curl -
          malta + acute accent - númen + under bar / short carrier + right curl
          - malta + acute accent - anto + single over-dot - short carrier + acute
          accent - lambe - malta + right curl.

          Cuio mae, Danny.
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