Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Vanyarin and Curls

Expand Messages
  • John
    In Quenya mode, how should one represent certain Vanyarin variants? For the use of th I simply use súlë. The problem is when I need to represent z.
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 1, 2003
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      In Quenya mode, how should one represent certain Vanyarin variants?
      For the use of 'th' I simply use "súlë." The problem is when I need
      to represent 'z.' Would it be best to use "esse" to represent
      Vanyarin 'z?' That was my original idea, considering that this had
      the original value of 'z,' but became 'r' in Exilic Quenya and then
      the letter was used for 'ss' later on.

      Also, I have a query about curls used in representing the
      combinations cs (x), ps, and ts. I use them in Tengwar in a word
      such as 'axo (bone)' when there is no consonant after, only a tehta
      to represent the vowel. My question is whether one should use curls
      to represent those combinations in words such as 'axan (rule, law)'
      in which a consonant appears after the combination and proceeding
      vowel. Is it better not to use them for aesthetic reasons? Is it
      simply a matter of taste? Are there any attested examples where
      Tolkien prefers one way over the other?

      Thank you all in advance for your assistance.

      Sincerely,
      John

      P.S. The word 'axo' I spell in a Tengwar font (Dan Smith fonts) as
      `CaY| . I spell 'axan' as `CaE|5 with the curl, or `CaiE5 without
      it. Thought you might want those quickly if you do a comparison.
    • Gildor Inglorion
      teithant John ... you are right.. those changes occured only in Exilic Noldorin.. to write Vanyarin you must go some steps back ... nope.. the curls are used
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 3, 2003
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        teithant John

        > In Quenya mode, how should one represent certain
        > Vanyarin variants?
        > For the use of 'th' I simply use "sϊlλ." The
        > problem is when I need
        > to represent 'z.' Would it be best to use "esse" to
        > represent
        > Vanyarin 'z?' That was my original idea,
        > considering that this had
        > the original value of 'z,' but became 'r' in Exilic
        > Quenya and then
        > the letter was used for 'ss' later on.

        you are right.. those changes occured only in Exilic
        Noldorin.. to write Vanyarin you must go some steps
        back

        > Also, I have a query about curls used in
        > representing the
        > combinations cs (x), ps, and ts. I use them in
        > Tengwar in a word
        > such as 'axo (bone)' when there is no consonant
        > after, only a tehta
        > to represent the vowel. My question is whether one
        > should use curls
        > to represent those combinations in words such as
        > 'axan (rule, law)'
        > in which a consonant appears after the combination
        > and proceeding
        > vowel. Is it better not to use them for aesthetic
        > reasons? Is it
        > simply a matter of taste? Are there any attested
        > examples where
        > Tolkien prefers one way over the other?

        nope.. the curls are used for those clusters in
        general, i find no reason for exceptions.. if you find
        that the curl classes with the next tengwa, just write
        a different variant of it

        ____________________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Αποκτήστε τη δωρεάν @... διεύθυνση σας στο http://www.otenet.gr
      • machhezan
        About the s-curls:I guess that in Quenya s-curls are always added at the same side of the tel= co where the lúva is (i.e. at the right side for tinco and
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 3, 2003
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          About the s-curls:

          I guess that in Quenya s-curls are always added at the same side of the tel=
          co
          where the lúva is (i.e. at the right side for tinco and parma téma, and at =
          the left
          side for calma and quesse téma), but this assumption is rather based on the=

          evidence of English modes:

          The Brogan Tengwa-greetings (DTS 10) show two times the word
          "explanations" (first in a 'Traditional Spelling' 'general use' [i.e. tehta=
          r] mode,
          then in a 'Traditional Spelling' 'full writing' mode). Both instances have =
          the <x>
          transcript to quesse + s-curl added to the lúva at the left side of the tel=
          co.

          But there are also numerous samples which show both calma- and
          quessetéma tengwar with the s-curl added at the right, i.e. not to the lúva=
          , but
          only to the telco. But I think that this use is specific to the English mod=
          es (both
          phonemic and orthographic) in order to represent the very frequent final -s=
          (or
          -'s) of English inflection (plural, genitiv, 3rd person). These modes even =
          have
          the s-curl added to lambe or to the short carrier.

          In the English modes, there are even some cases where the s-curl bears a
          tehta, but again always in final position.

          suilaid
          mach
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.