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Re: [elfscript] I need some help...

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  • Larry
    Is it the best ou there so far for users like me that need the extra help in writing in the scripts or is there something better/What is its flaws if it hase
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 15, 2003
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      Is it the best ou there so far for users like me that
      need the extra help in writing in the scripts or is
      there something better/What is its flaws if it hase
      them? Me and my cousen are starting to get into
      writing in tengwer. I want it for RPG's (AD&D) and
      journal writing. My cousen wants it for every day
      wirting and such.


      --- Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@...> wrote:
      > teithant Larry
      >
      > > Is tengscrib reliable? Will it "scribe" corectly?
      >
      > it's as good as possible but not perfect... tengwar
      > spelling relies also on etymology, and this program
      > cannot judge the etymology of the words, since it
      > 'scribes' by sounds...
      >
      >
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    • Larry
      What type of PC do you have? IBM or a MAC? What OS are you running? ...
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 15, 2003
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        What type of PC do you have? IBM or a MAC? What OS are
        you running?

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: tatatatiatortilla
        > [mailto:chantiataylor@...]
        > Sent: April 15, 2003 12:06 AM
        > To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [elfscript] I need some help...
        >
        >
        > I downloaded the TengwarQuenya, TengwarSindarin, and
        > other
        > fonts...and i can't get them to work on my computer.
        > I would really
        > like to get a tattoo with my name written in
        > Elfscript...if some one
        > could please write my name in elven for me and send
        > it to me it would
        > be greatly appreciated.
        >
        > my name is Chantia, but spelled phonetically it is
        > Shanteuh
        >
        >
        >
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      • Gildor Inglorion
        teithant Larry ... the best is to LEARN tengwar by yourselves.. it s not that difficult ____________________________________________________________ Do You
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 15, 2003
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          teithant Larry

          > Is it the best ou there so far for users like me
          > that
          > need the extra help in writing in the scripts or is
          > there something better/What is its flaws if it hase
          > them? Me and my cousen are starting to get into
          > writing in tengwer. I want it for RPG's (AD&D) and
          > journal writing. My cousen wants it for every day
          > wirting and such.

          the best is to LEARN tengwar by yourselves.. it's not
          that difficult

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        • tatatatiatortilla
          Chantia is pronounced: ch as in shy a as in father n as in tin ti as t as in tree a as in allow ... pronounced? :) ... and ... The ... in shanteuh ... of
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 15, 2003
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            Chantia is pronounced:

            ch as in shy
            a as in father
            n as in tin
            ti as t as in tree
            a as in allow







            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Harri Perälä" <harri.perala@l...>
            wrote:
            > tatatatiatortilla wrote:
            >
            > > my name is Chantia, but spelled phonetically it is Shanteuh
            >
            > Ok, please allow a stupid question: how is "shanteuh"
            pronounced? :)
            >
            > It looks like a "phonetic" spelling based on English orthography,
            and
            > such things just make us bad English speakers even more confused.
            The
            > reply from Chris Jacobs seems to assume that the letters
            in "shanteuh"
            > have the values they do in, for example, Tolkien's Latin spelling
            of his
            > languages, but I find that hard to believe. Could someone give me,
            say,
            > a SAMPA transcription?
            >
            > --
            > Harri Perälä perala@l... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
          • tatatatiatortilla
            i tried that but every time i saved the font to my computer it would save it as a music file...for use in our cd burner. how do i fix that? ... on ... add ...
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 15, 2003
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              i tried that but every time i saved the font to my computer it would
              save it as a music file...for use in our cd burner. how do i fix that?


              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Andrews" <aandrews@w...>
              wrote:
              > Once you download the font, you need to go to your start menu click
              on
              > settings, then control panel, then font, then click on file, then
              add
              > new font, etc. If you have done that and it still won't work, I
              have no
              > answer for you, sorry.
              >
              > Ainuriel
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: tatatatiatortilla [mailto:chantiataylor@m...]
              > Sent: April 15, 2003 12:06 AM
              > To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [elfscript] I need some help...
              >
              >
              > I downloaded the TengwarQuenya, TengwarSindarin, and other
              > fonts...and i can't get them to work on my computer. I would really
              > like to get a tattoo with my name written in Elfscript...if some
              one
              > could please write my name in elven for me and send it to me it
              would
              > be greatly appreciated.
              >
              > my name is Chantia, but spelled phonetically it is Shanteuh
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              >
              <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egroupweb/
              S=
              > 1705218811:HM/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-
              bin/autoredir?ca
              > mp=556&lineid=3083889&prop=egroupweb&pos=HM>
              >
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              M=249982.3083889.4452939.1728375/D=egrou
              > pmail/S=:HM/A=1524963/rand=713902240>
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: elfscript@e...
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            • Chris Jacobs
              Once you downloaded the Dan Smith fonts they will have a .zip extention. You have to unzip those first, e.g. with winzip. http://www.winzip.com/ Then you get
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 15, 2003
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                Once you downloaded the Dan Smith fonts they will have a .zip extention.
                You have to unzip those first, e.g. with winzip. http://www.winzip.com/
                Then you get files with .ttf extention.

                I allways 'install' .ttf fonts by just copying and pasting them to
                C:\WINDOWS\FONTS

                That is not the official way, but for me it works.

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "tatatatiatortilla" <chantiataylor@...>
                To: <elfscript@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:45 PM
                Subject: [elfscript] Re: I need some help...


                > i tried that but every time i saved the font to my computer it would
                > save it as a music file...for use in our cd burner. how do i fix that?
                >
                >
                > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Andrews" <aandrews@w...>
                > > wrote:
                > > Once you download the font, you need to go to your start menu click
                > > on
                > > settings, then control panel, then font, then click on file, then
                > > add
                > > new font, etc. If you have done that and it still won't work, I
                > > have no
                > > answer for you, sorry.
                > >
                > > Ainuriel
              • tatatatiatortilla
                Thank you! That helped a lot and it worked! ... extention. ... http://www.winzip.com/ ... would ... that? ... ... click ... then ... I
                Message 7 of 29 , Apr 15, 2003
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                  Thank you! That helped a lot and it worked!


                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Jacobs" <c.t.m.jacobs@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > Once you downloaded the Dan Smith fonts they will have a .zip
                  extention.
                  > You have to unzip those first, e.g. with winzip.
                  http://www.winzip.com/
                  > Then you get files with .ttf extention.
                  >
                  > I allways 'install' .ttf fonts by just copying and pasting them to
                  > C:\WINDOWS\FONTS
                  >
                  > That is not the official way, but for me it works.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "tatatatiatortilla" <chantiataylor@m...>
                  > To: <elfscript@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:45 PM
                  > Subject: [elfscript] Re: I need some help...
                  >
                  >
                  > > i tried that but every time i saved the font to my computer it
                  would
                  > > save it as a music file...for use in our cd burner. how do i fix
                  that?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Andrews"
                  <aandrews@w...>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > Once you download the font, you need to go to your start menu
                  click
                  > > > on
                  > > > settings, then control panel, then font, then click on file,
                  then
                  > > > add
                  > > > new font, etc. If you have done that and it still won't work,
                  I
                  > > > have no
                  > > > answer for you, sorry.
                  > > >
                  > > > Ainuriel
                • Michelle
                  After using Dan Smith s tengwar fonts to write in Q, S modes (etc); have you thought about downloading from the same site Chris MacKays Tengwar Textbook? If
                  Message 8 of 29 , Apr 16, 2003
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                    After using Dan Smith's tengwar fonts to write in Q, S modes (etc);
                    have you thought about downloading from the same site Chris MacKays
                    Tengwar Textbook? If you are interested in learning to write in
                    tengwar this textbook takes you through the guidelines for writing in
                    tengwar. So you can learn it yourself & this group (elfscript)is
                    happy to help you with your spelling attempts (each tengwa has it's
                    own name which is listed in the textbook & tehta has it's own
                    description, so you can spell by using their names for the purpose of
                    posting on this ML) while learning, should you need the help. It
                    worked for me.

                    Just a thought.

                    Michelle
                  • tatatatiatortilla
                    how do i go about getting his book? ... in ... of
                    Message 9 of 29 , Apr 16, 2003
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                      how do i go about getting his book?



                      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <petermichelle@p...>
                      wrote:
                      > After using Dan Smith's tengwar fonts to write in Q, S modes (etc);
                      > have you thought about downloading from the same site Chris MacKays
                      > Tengwar Textbook? If you are interested in learning to write in
                      > tengwar this textbook takes you through the guidelines for writing
                      in
                      > tengwar. So you can learn it yourself & this group (elfscript)is
                      > happy to help you with your spelling attempts (each tengwa has it's
                      > own name which is listed in the textbook & tehta has it's own
                      > description, so you can spell by using their names for the purpose
                      of
                      > posting on this ML) while learning, should you need the help. It
                      > worked for me.
                      >
                      > Just a thought.
                      >
                      > Michelle
                    • Gildor Inglorion
                      teithant tatatatiatortilla ... http://www.geocities.com/tengwar2001/index.html ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
                      Message 10 of 29 , Apr 16, 2003
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                        teithant tatatatiatortilla

                        > how do i go about getting his book?

                        http://www.geocities.com/tengwar2001/index.html

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                      • Larry
                        thank you very much, this sheds some light. :-) ... ===== Happy Hunting! My web site: http://www.geocities.com/boonedale/ My Robotech game on Yahoo! groups:
                        Message 11 of 29 , Apr 16, 2003
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                          thank you very much, this sheds some light. :-)


                          --- Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@...> wrote:
                          > teithant tatatatiatortilla
                          >
                          > > how do i go about getting his book?
                          >
                          > http://www.geocities.com/tengwar2001/index.html
                          >
                          >
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                          >


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                        • Michelle
                          ... In this website (as listed above)I highly recommend Chris Tengwar Textbook (start with this), Index of Significant Samples (this gives you lots of
                          Message 12 of 29 , Apr 17, 2003
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                            teithant Gildor Inglorion:
                            > teithant tatatatiatortilla
                            >
                            > > how do i go about getting his book?
                            >
                            > http://www.geocities.com/tengwar2001/index.html

                            In this website (as listed above)I highly recommend Chris' Tengwar
                            Textbook (start with this), Index of Significant Samples (this gives
                            you lots of examples of Tengwar using it's different modes from
                            Tolkien's works - really good), Tengwar Reader 1 (a workbook to
                            practice reading & writing using the Tengwar - practical, use after
                            reading the textbook).

                            When writing in English phonemically you use the 'English mode' in
                            the textbook. When writing in Quenya, use the 'Quenya mode'; and so
                            on.

                            There are resources available via the web should you be interested in
                            writing using Quenya or Sindarin. Helge has a 'Quenya to English'
                            & 'English to Quenya' wordlist that you can download from his website
                            (also a Quenya course if you are interested). You can find this at
                            http://www.ardalambion.com Ryszard has a Sindarin dictionary &
                            Reconstructed Quenya wordlist (Parma Penyane Quettaron) at
                            http://elvish.org/gwaith. Or, of course, there are Tolkien's books.

                            One quick example from using the Quenya mode: Quenya word 'Harma'
                            (treasure in English). Spelt using the Quenya mode: hyarmen + 3 dots
                            directly above, parma, malta + 3 dots directly above (these are the
                            names of the tengwa letters used - they are listed besides each
                            symbol; pg 4&5 of Tengwar Textbook the Quenya mode).

                            This is of course if this interests you. Hope this is of help.

                            Michelle
                          • Gildor Inglorion
                            teithant Michelle ... but then this would read hapma you need Ore, not Parma ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
                            Message 13 of 29 , Apr 17, 2003
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                              teithant Michelle

                              > One quick example from using the Quenya mode: Quenya
                              > word 'Harma'
                              > (treasure in English). Spelt using the Quenya mode:
                              > hyarmen + 3 dots
                              > directly above, parma, malta + 3 dots directly above
                              > (these are the
                              > names of the tengwa letters used - they are listed
                              > besides each
                              > symbol; pg 4&5 of Tengwar Textbook the Quenya mode).

                              but then this would read 'hapma'
                              you need Ore, not Parma

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                            • Michelle
                              ... We are talking about the same tengwa, you have used the Classical mode (as shown in appendix E of Lotr)which is listed as ore, quite correct. Chris
                              Message 14 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                teithant Gildor Inglorion:
                                > teithant Michelle
                                >
                                > > One quick example from using the Quenya mode: Quenya
                                > > word 'Harma'
                                > > (treasure in English). Spelt using the Quenya mode:
                                > > hyarmen + 3 dots
                                > > directly above, parma, malta + 3 dots directly above
                                > > (these are the
                                > > names of the tengwa letters used - they are listed
                                > > besides each
                                > > symbol; pg 4&5 of Tengwar Textbook the Quenya mode).
                                >
                                > but then this would read 'hapma'
                                > you need Ore, not Parma


                                We are talking about the same tengwa, you have used the Classical
                                mode (as shown in appendix E of Lotr)which is listed as ore, quite
                                correct. Chris MacKay's textbook that I am working from
                                differentiates between modes. In the Quenya mode (which I have used)
                                the trilled 'r' is listed as parma. Both tengwa symbols are exactly
                                the same - different example used between charts. The example used
                                for the Quenya mode chart illustrates the use of the 'r' in the word
                                parma. Both are correct (pg 4 & 8), it's just that ore is not used on
                                the Quenya Mode (Namarie inscription)chart. None the less, we are
                                both looking at the same symbol.

                                cuio mae,

                                Michelle
                              • Gildor Inglorion
                                teithant Michelle ... look again, parma is used for p , never r in ALL attested modes AFAIK ____________________________________________________________ Do
                                Message 15 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                  teithant Michelle

                                  > We are talking about the same tengwa, you have used
                                  > the Classical
                                  > mode (as shown in appendix E of Lotr)which is listed
                                  > as ore, quite
                                  > correct. Chris MacKay's textbook that I am working
                                  > from
                                  > differentiates between modes. In the Quenya mode
                                  > (which I have used)
                                  > the trilled 'r' is listed as parma. Both tengwa

                                  look again, parma is used for 'p', never 'r' in ALL
                                  attested modes AFAIK

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                                • DDanielA@webtv.net
                                  ... mode (as ... correct. Chris ... the trilled r ... Gildor is right. óre (#21) = weak r rómen (#25) = trilled r parma (#2) = p ... never r In
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                    Teithant Gildor Inglorion:
                                    >teithant Michelle
                                    > >We are talking about the same tengwa, you have
                                    > >used the Classical
                                    mode (as
                                    > >shown in appendix E of Lotr)which is listed as
                                    > >ore, quite
                                    correct. Chris
                                    > >MacKay's textbook that I am working from
                                    > >differentiates between modes. In the Quenya
                                    > >mode (which I have used)
                                    the trilled 'r'
                                    > >is listed as parma. Both tengwa
                                    >look again, parma is used for 'p', never 'r' in ALL
                                    >attested modes AFAIK

                                    Gildor is right.
                                    óre (#21) = weak 'r'
                                    rómen (#25) = trilled 'r'
                                    parma (#2) = p ... never 'r'
                                    In _harma_ 'r' is before a consonant, so óre is used.

                                    Cuio mae, Danny.
                                  • Michelle
                                    ... I don t want to get into a debate about the accurateness of Chris s book s nor my assumed ability to read. I understand that tengwa #21 is ore.
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                      teitant Danny:

                                      >look again, parma is used for 'p', never 'r' in ALL
                                      >attested modes AFAIK
                                      >
                                      > Gildor is right.
                                      > óre (#21) = weak 'r'
                                      > rómen (#25) = trilled 'r'
                                      > parma (#2) = p ... never 'r'
                                      > In _harma_ 'r' is before a consonant, so óre is used.
                                      >

                                      I don't want to get into a debate about the accurateness of Chris's
                                      book's nor my assumed ability to read. I understand that tengwa #21
                                      is ore. Unfortunately for me because the Jan 2003 ed of Chris
                                      MacKay's Textbook on pg 4 (Quenya mode) lists tengwa #21 as parma
                                      with r underlined; & on page 8 (Classical mode) tengwa #21 as ore (&
                                      I might add that tengwa #2 on both pages is listed as parma with the
                                      p underlined); that the assumption has been made that I don't
                                      understand the difference - I do.

                                      I usually use Dan Smith's Quenya mode chart from his website that
                                      lists tengwa #21 as ore, but at the time that I wrote my email to
                                      offer assistance to tatatatiatortilla, had misplaced my chart &
                                      decided to use Chris's chart for the specific tengwa names in the
                                      Quenya mode. It seems you should be taking up the issue of using
                                      parma with the r underlined for tengwa #21 in the Quenya mode with
                                      Chris, not me.

                                      Michelle
                                    • Harri Perälä
                                      ... Yes, it s just that the Textbook doesn t mention the names of the letters, although it uses them as examples. As others have said, the name of the letter
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                        Michelle wrote:

                                        > The example used
                                        > for the Quenya mode chart illustrates the use of the 'r' in the word
                                        > parma.

                                        Yes, it's just that the Textbook doesn't mention the names of the
                                        letters, although it uses them as examples. As others have said, the
                                        name of the letter in column I, row 6 is óre, regardless of the mode.
                                        The Quenya chart explains that it's value is "r - as in parma"; parma is
                                        the name for the letter in column II, row 1. The names are listed in
                                        LotR Appendix E. I think the Textbook could be clearer about this, since
                                        the names are frequently used to refer to the tengwar. I am also a bit
                                        surprised to see Quenya words used as examples in the charts for
                                        Sindarin modes.

                                        --
                                        Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
                                      • Karyn Traphagen
                                        ... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/ I would encourage you to email Chris directly (clmc3129@interlinklc.net) about your comments (in case he missed this whole
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                          > From: Harri Perälä [mailto:harri.perala@...]
                                          > I think the Textbook could be clearer about this, since the
                                          > names are frequently used to refer to the tengwar. I am also
                                          > a bit surprised to see Quenya words used as examples in the
                                          > charts for Sindarin modes.
                                          >> Harri Perälä perala@...
                                          http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/

                                          I would encourage you to email Chris directly (clmc3129@...)
                                          about your comments (in case he missed this whole exchange). I have
                                          found that he always appreciates comments on the Textbook and the
                                          Reader.

                                          Karyn
                                        • Michelle
                                          ... mode. ... parma is ... Thank you for illustrating what I was trying to explain. It seems to have got lost the main point of what I was trying to explain,
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                            teitant "Harri Perälä":

                                            > Yes, it's just that the Textbook doesn't mention the names of the
                                            > letters, although it uses them as examples. As others have said, the
                                            > name of the letter in column I, row 6 is óre, regardless of the
                                            mode.
                                            > The Quenya chart explains that it's value is "r - as in parma";
                                            parma is
                                            > the name for the letter in column II, row 1.


                                            Thank you for illustrating what I was trying to explain. It seems to
                                            have got lost the main point of what I was trying to explain, that
                                            tengwa # 21 (or as you have said column 1, row 6)name is ore (I don't
                                            dispute this & agree with Gildor & Danny). I rightly or wrongly used
                                            the Quenya mode example from Chris' book in spelling harma because I
                                            had misplaced my tengwar name chart. Chris' example of the value
                                            of 'r as in the word parma' for ore (tengwa #21), to me, is not
                                            difficult to understand - makes sense to me. It's an illustration.
                                            Regardless, we were still all discussing the exact same tengwa, ore.

                                            I hope I have articulated myself clearly enough to say that tengwa #
                                            21's name is ore. O.K.?

                                            Michelle
                                          • Harri Perälä
                                            ... True, but I think that this discussion has shown that the examples and tengwa names can indeed get mixed up, and those who do not have the Tengwar Textbook
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                              Michelle wrote:

                                              > Chris' example of the value
                                              > of 'r as in the word parma' for ore (tengwa #21), to me, is not
                                              > difficult to understand - makes sense to me. It's an illustration.

                                              True, but I think that this discussion has shown that the examples and
                                              tengwa names can indeed get mixed up, and those who do not have the
                                              Tengwar Textbook in front of them have a hard time determining what is
                                              meant.

                                              > I hope I have articulated myself clearly enough to say that tengwa #
                                              > 21's name is ore. O.K.?

                                              No objections from me. :)

                                              --
                                              Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
                                            • Harri Perälä
                                              ... You are right, I will do that. -- Harri Perälä perala@lut.fi http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                                Karyn Traphagen wrote:

                                                > I would encourage you to email Chris directly (clmc3129@...)
                                                > about your comments (in case he missed this whole exchange).

                                                You are right, I will do that.

                                                --
                                                Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
                                              • abrigon
                                                Question and all, raises why we have the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet). Mike ... and ... The ... shanteuh ... his ... say,
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Apr 29, 2003
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                                                  Question and all, raises why we have the IPA (International Phonetic
                                                  Alphabet).

                                                  Mike


                                                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Harri Perälä" <harri.perala@l...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > tatatatiatortilla wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > > my name is Chantia, but spelled phonetically it is Shanteuh
                                                  >
                                                  > Ok, please allow a stupid question: how is "shanteuh" pronounced? :)
                                                  >
                                                  > It looks like a "phonetic" spelling based on English orthography,
                                                  and
                                                  > such things just make us bad English speakers even more confused.
                                                  The
                                                  > reply from Chris Jacobs seems to assume that the letters in
                                                  "shanteuh"
                                                  > have the values they do in, for example, Tolkien's Latin spelling of
                                                  his
                                                  > languages, but I find that hard to believe. Could someone give me,
                                                  say,
                                                  > a SAMPA transcription?
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  > Harri Perälä perala@l... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
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