Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [elfscript] Re: Webpages with rich text?

Expand Messages
  • Chris Jacobs
    ... From: MiMaS To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: [elfscript] Re: Webpages with rich
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 21 6:43 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "MiMaS" <michal@...>
      To: <elfscript@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:32 AM
      Subject: [elfscript] Re: Webpages with rich text?


      > --- "Chris Jacobs" <c.t.m.jacobs@h...> wrote:
      > > Where can I find webpages with tengwar on it which use not .jpg
      > > or.gif to display it but formatted text? I want to see which fonts
      > > they use.
      >
      >
      > Some time ago I've been doing some tests on Tengwar TTF support in
      > browsers. The test page is still available at
      > http://tengwar.art.pl/test/ however I'm not sure for how long ;-)

      On my sytem (Windows 98 SE Internet Explorer 6) besides the IMG only
      Tengwar Parmaite CSS displays correct, but not straight under the IMG but,
      as a whole, shifted to the left.

      The page defaults to Central-European coding. If I change this to
      West-European then the other CSS display as tengwar too, _except_ Tengwar
      Noldor.
      The FONT is rendered in all fonts with much too much white between the
      letters.

      But what I really was interested in: what character code is used for
      tengwar? I see all fonts mentioned so far use the Dan Smith keyboard mapping
      which implies that the character codes overlap with those for the latin
      alphabet.

      I mean if Dan Smith maps calma on the small a of a US keyboard then the
      char code for calma and for small a seems to be the same: 61 (hex)

      How widely is this convention followed? I know there exist fonts who use
      other mappings. e.g. calma = E002 (hex) [or was that xx02 (hex)?] Do
      anybody ever use those?
    • MiMaS
      ... The main purpose of my test page was to check fonts I use on my tengwar transcriber page ( http://tengwar.art.pl/ott/ ). That s why I was only interested
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 21 9:09 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- "Chris Jacobs" <c.t.m.jacobs@h...> wrote:
        > But what I really was interested in: what character code is used
        > for tengwar? I see all fonts mentioned so far use the Dan Smith
        > keyboard mapping which implies that the character codes overlap
        > with those for the latin alphabet.

        The main purpose of my test page was to check fonts I use on my
        tengwar transcriber page ( http://tengwar.art.pl/ott/ ). That's
        why I was only interested in Dan Smith compatibile fonts.


        > How widely is this convention followed? I know there exist fonts
        > who use other mappings. e.g. calma = E002 (hex) [or was that xx02
        > (hex)?] Do anybody ever use those?

        Dan Smith's keymapping is used by all automatic transcription
        software I know (including TengwarScribe, YaTT, TTT, oTT and KTT).
        Besides those fonts (Tengwar Quenya, Sindarin, Noldor, Parmaite and
        Cursive) are the best of all tengwar fonts available today.

        You are probably interested in Unicode encoding of Tengwar.
        Here are some test pages:
        http://home.att.net/~jameskass/tengwartest.htm
        http://homepage.mac.com/thgewecke/oring.html


        Please also look for Michael Everson proposal in elfscript (or maybe
        elfling? I'm not sure now) archives ;-)



        meneg suilaid
        --
        MiMaS
      • Chris Jacobs
        [ ... ] ... Are there tavultesoft keyboards for the fonts with Michael Everson coding that you know of? If not I want to try make those myself.
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 25 8:48 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          [ ... ]

          > Dan Smith's keymapping is used by all automatic transcription
          > software I know (including TengwarScribe, YaTT, TTT, oTT and KTT).
          > Besides those fonts (Tengwar Quenya, Sindarin, Noldor, Parmaite and
          > Cursive) are the best of all tengwar fonts available today.
          >
          > You are probably interested in Unicode encoding of Tengwar.
          > Here are some test pages:
          > http://home.att.net/~jameskass/tengwartest.htm
          > http://homepage.mac.com/thgewecke/oring.html
          >
          >
          > Please also look for Michael Everson proposal in elfscript (or maybe
          > elfling? I'm not sure now) archives ;-)

          Are there tavultesoft keyboards for the fonts with Michael Everson coding
          that you know of?

          If not I want to try make those myself.
        • MiMaS
          ... No. The only Keyman keyboard for Tengwar I know uses Dan Smith s fonts and is available at http://www.ai.rug.nl/~flobbe/tengwar/ ... Best luck :-) -- MiMaS
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 25 11:12 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            --- "Chris Jacobs" <c.t.m.jacobs@h...> wrote:
            > Are there tavultesoft keyboards for the fonts with
            > Michael Everson coding that you know of?

            No. The only Keyman keyboard for Tengwar I know uses
            Dan Smith's fonts and is available at
            http://www.ai.rug.nl/~flobbe/tengwar/


            > If not I want to try make those myself.

            Best luck :-)


            --
            MiMaS
          • Brook Conner
            ... Strictly speaking, yes. The encoding algorithm used for the GIF format is patented. The current patent holder is, I believe, Unisys, and has been known to
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 26 8:39 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 12:02 PM, Gildor Inglorion wrote:
              >>> why png? what should we know about this format
              >>> (besides that it's free etc)?
              >>
              >> Isn't that enough? ;-)
              >
              > what for? am i supposed to pay when i produce gif
              > images/publish them in my page/see them online?

              Strictly speaking, yes. The encoding algorithm used for the GIF format
              is patented. The current patent holder is, I believe, Unisys, and has
              been known to send legal letters to major web presences about their use
              of their patented algorithm.

              In actual practice, it doesn't much matter, but some people will make a
              point out of the issue.

              In general, PNG, aside from being free, cleanly supports a lot of nice
              web features, like progressive loading, and uses especially good
              compression algorithms, leading to small image sizes.

              As most image software produces PNG these days, and all significant web
              browsers recognize it, there's no particularly good reason to keep
              using GIF.

              Ob-Tengwar, of course, the Right Answer is universal Unicode support
              :-) But that's a ways off.....


              Brook

              _____________
              In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet
              hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry,
              bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a
              hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.
            • Jeremy Gilbert
              The biggest advantage of using PNG is that it supports different levels of transparency, whereas GIF has only one level of transparency. So you can get a much
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 26 9:24 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                The biggest advantage of using PNG is that it supports different levels
                of transparency, whereas GIF has only one level of transparency. So you
                can get a much nicer looking image especially if you want to get
                different shades of transparency. For representing text, though, this
                doesn't make a big difference.

                Unfortunately Microsoft browsers have abysmal PNG support, go figure.
                Mozilla, Netscape, Opera all work fine, but most people are stuck in
                Gatesland, so I generally make do with GIFs. I haven't received any
                letters from Unisys yet.

                Jeremy


                ----- Original message -----
                From: "Brook Conner" <me@...>
                To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:39:50 -0500
                Subject: PNG vs GIF [was Re: [elfscript] Re: Webpages with rich text?]

                This message only has an HTML part -- this is a text generated
                representation


                On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 12:02 PM, Gildor Inglorion wrote:
                >>> why png? what should we know about this format
                >>> (besides that it's free etc)?
                >>
                >> Isn't that enough? ;-)
                >
                > what for? am i supposed to pay when i produce gif
                > images/publish them in my page/see them online?
                Strictly speaking, yes. The encoding algorithm used for the GIF format
                is patented. The current patent holder is, I believe, Unisys, and has
                been known to send legal letters to major web presences about their
                use
                of their patented algorithm.
                In actual practice, it doesn't much matter, but some people will make
                a
                point out of the issue.
                In general, PNG, aside from being free, cleanly supports a lot of nice
                web features, like progressive loading, and uses especially good
                compression algorithms, leading to small image sizes.
                As most image software produces PNG these days, and all significant
                web
                browsers recognize it, there's no particularly good reason to keep
                using GIF.
                Ob-Tengwar, of course, the Right Answer is universal Unicode support
                :-) But that's a ways off.....
                Brook
                _____________
                In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet
                hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry,
                bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a
                hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.

                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

                To Post a message, send it to: elfscript@...
                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                elfscript-unsubscribe@...
                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [1]Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.

                References

                Visible links
                1. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                Hidden links:
                2.
                http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245314.3072841.4397732.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705218811:HM/A=1495890/R=0/*http://www.netbizideas.com/yheb42

                --
                http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own
              • John Cowan
                ... No surprise. There is no market pressure for MS to enhance Explorer, since it has already thoroughly beaten the competition. -- It was impossible to
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 26 9:39 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jeremy Gilbert scripsit:

                  > Unfortunately Microsoft browsers have abysmal PNG support, go figure.
                  > Mozilla, Netscape, Opera all work fine, but most people are stuck in
                  > Gatesland,

                  No surprise. There is no market pressure for MS to enhance Explorer, since
                  it has already thoroughly beaten the competition.

                  --
                  It was impossible to inveigle John Cowan <jcowan@...>
                  Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
                  Into offering the slightest apology http://www.reutershealth.com
                  For his Phenomenology. --W. H. Auden, from "People" (1953)
                • Chris Jacobs
                  ... My first attempt is ready. Can someone please test it?
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 29 10:43 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "MiMaS" <michal@m...> wrote:
                    > --- "Chris Jacobs" <c.t.m.jacobs@h...> wrote:
                    > > Are there tavultesoft keyboards for the fonts with
                    > > Michael Everson coding that you know of?
                    >
                    > No. The only Keyman keyboard for Tengwar I know uses
                    > Dan Smith's fonts and is available at
                    > http://www.ai.rug.nl/~flobbe/tengwar/
                    >
                    >
                    > > If not I want to try make those myself.
                    >
                    > Best luck :-)
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > MiMaS

                    My first attempt is ready. Can someone please test it?
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.