Re: [elfscript] Definite article Problem
- Teithant Edouard Kloczko:
>Gildor will you never stop pretending to be fluentGildor has never claimed to be fluent in either Eldarin language, nor
>in Quenya and Sindarin, are you? :-(
has anyone on Elfscript or Elfling, AFAICR. There have been newbies who
say they want to become fluent, but they are repeatedly told by others,
including Gildor, that it's not possible. That's not what these lists
are for. But they're also not for someone to bitch and moan about those
of us Tolkien fans who want to use logical conclusions to reconstruct
the gaps in our knowledge of the languages. We study the languages;
assumptions are made.
>ARDALAMBION site has *not* Tolkien's GrammarHelge's theories about Sindarin are very much based on what clues we
>of Sindarin but has Mr Helge's views of his *own*
>Mature Sindarin. "Mature Sindarin" is not Tolkien's
find in Tolkien's own works. He cites examples. Where no attested
example exists, he makes no bones about the fact that his reconstruction
is just theory. Helge is very straightforward about admitting that some
of his and David Salo's reconstructions of the mutations may well be
proved wrong in the light of Tolkien's writings yet to be published. And
if they are wrong, Helge will the first to admit it. However, the
original post that prompted Gildor's reply concerned the g>0 lenition.
That, at least, is well attested in Tolkien's published works as, I'm
sure, you're quite aware. Fluency in Sindarin is not required to point
out a lenition that we have examples of.
>We don't have enough Sindarin text publish soOh, we understand the system pretty well; we just don't know all the
>far to be able to understand its mutation system.
>Those you say the contaray are _lying_.
forms. And we disagree about the necessity for Helge's hypothetical
'liquid mutation'. But we have some of Tolkien's own comments about some
of the mutations in his 'Letters', and we can see the mutations at work
in the available Sindarin corpus. Lenition (which follows the Welsh
model pretty closely) and the nasal mutation are not much of a mystery,
thanks to the examples we have. Using the clues provided by JRRT to find
out what he *might* have intended is much like what he did with his
languages: using the primitive Quendian roots to 'discover' the route
that his languages took. I think if Tolkien were alive today, he would
be impressed with the scholarship that has gone into the attempt to
unravel the secrets of Eldarin. We have enough examples of the soft and
nasal mutations to make some reasonable assumptions, and those who claim
to the contrary are _lying_.
Cuio mae, Danny.
- --- In email@example.com, DDanielA@w... wrote:
> Teithant Edouard Kloczko:When Mr A ask "How can I say z" and Mr B writes : "You can say it like
> >Gildor will you never stop pretending to be fluent
> >in Quenya and Sindarin, are you? :-(
> Gildor has never claimed to be fluent in either Eldarin language, nor
> has anyone on Elfscript or Elfling, AFAICR.
that and that"... sound, read and looks like Mr B is pretty fluent.
I do not read often (to say the least) things like "I do not know", or
even a simple "maybe"...
- teithant "laurifindil <ejk@...>"
> When Mr A ask "How can I say z" and Mr B writes :apology: sometimes i am quite tired, and all i want is
> "You can say it like
> that and that"... sound, read and looks like Mr B is
> pretty fluent.
> I do not read often (to say the least) things like
> "I do not know", or
> even a simple "maybe"...
to give a definite answer (that means, if i consider
it possible of course), and not a full analysis of how
and why i picked/made some words..
i' m sure the newbie who asked this translation for a
RPG game or a nickname, is not interested in this..
he/she wants an answer, and it's ok with me and my
conscience that i tried to make a sentence according
to what i know about Elvish, and didn't 'fool' him/her
with some alien words ('reflection' in sindarin? oh i
have it right here, published in my secret personal
dictionary, it's 'gwenniathreg')
i have been numerous times proven wrong, and every
time i give an answer, i also rely on the critical eye
of the other elflingers who correct me
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