Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[elfscript] Re: Unicode and Elfscripts

Expand Messages
  • Ivan A Derzhanski
    ... [...] ... Missing the modified for _mh_ in the King s Letter (_SD_). There s also an Old English _hw_, which looks like a above and like a
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 28, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Michael Everson wrote:
      > Tengwar proposals which have been seen by the standards committee:
      [...]
      > http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar.pdf
      > The third proposal (follows some corrections by Arden Smith).

      Missing the modified <malta> for _mh_ in the King's Letter (_SD_).
      There's also an Old English _hw_, which looks like a <thúle> above
      and like a <rómen> below, in the same volume of _HoME_.

      > http://www.indigo.ie/egt/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-vowels.pdf
      > discussion of vowel representation and modes. Inconclusive and under
      > revision by me.

      A few comments on the margins:

      (1) Referring to a the tendency of a language to have vowel-final
      or consonant-final words as its morphological structure is at best
      controversial.

      (2) It is not always true that `<númen> = _nn_ in Sindarin';
      in the King's Letter (in _SD_), the most important published
      document in Sindarin-punctuated mode, the use of <númen> and
      <óre> is very similar (though not identical) to what is seen
      in Quenya. I therefore suggest you replace <óre> with <númen>
      throughout and cut out the parenthetic remark.

      (3) I don't understand all the examples at the end (`Comparison
      of encodings'). _Tolkien_ #3, #4 and #6 seem redundant.
      In _Tolkien_ #7 <hyarmen> should be <yanta>; and shouldn't
      the long carrier be a short one?

      NB extra _s_ in _discusssed_.

      > See the Cirth proposal at
      > http://www.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n1641/n1641.htm

      Er, no, that's about the tengwar too. Wrong document number?

      --
      <fa-al-_haylu wa-al-laylu wa-al-baydA'u ta`rifunI
      wa-as-sayfu wa-ar-rum.hu wa-al-qir.tAsu wa-al-qalamu>
      (Abu t-Tayyib Ahmad Ibn Hussayn al-Mutanabbi)
      Ivan A Derzhanski <http://www.math.bas.bg/~iad/>
      H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria <iad@...>
      W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences
    • Michael Everson
      Correction of address: See the Cirth proposal at http://www.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n1642/n1642.htm Also see the revision at
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 28, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        Correction of address:

        See the Cirth proposal at http://www.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n1642/n1642.htm

        Also see the revision at http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/cirth.pdf

        Ivan said:

        >Missing the modified <malta> for _mh_ in the King's Letter (_SD_).

        Looks like an m-s ligature to me.

        >There's also an Old English _hw_, which looks like a <thúle> above
        >and like a <rómen> below, in the same volume of _HoME_.

        Or is this an h-w ligature?

        I think the final -s curls have to be dealt with as ligatures using
        Zero-Width Joiner. But if you could wait for my new document as I asked it
        would help.

        >(1) Referring to a the tendency of a language to have vowel-final
        >or consonant-final words as its morphological structure is at best
        >controversial.

        It's pretty much the explanation for choosing one mode over the other, as I
        understand.

        >(2) It is not always true that `<númen> = _nn_ in Sindarin';
        >in the King's Letter (in _SD_), the most important published
        >document in Sindarin-punctuated mode, the use of <númen> and
        ><óre> is very similar (though not identical) to what is seen
        >in Quenya. I therefore suggest you replace <óre> with <númen>
        >throughout and cut out the parenthetic remark.

        Isn't it better to stick with the canonical description in AppE.

        >(3) I don't understand all the examples at the end (`Comparison
        >of encodings'). _Tolkien_ #3, #4 and #6 seem redundant.
        >In _Tolkien_ #7 <hyarmen> should be <yanta>; and shouldn't
        >the long carrier be a short one?

        It is a draft and would you wait. Thanks. ;-)

        Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
        15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
        Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
        27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
      • Mans Bjorkman
        Greetings Michael and all! ... Actually, the competing proposal referred to was compiled by Martin T. Kutschker, though I provided him with a great deal of
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 30, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Greetings Michael and all!


          > Guidelines on how to proceed with discussion:
          >
          > 1. Do not post "competing" proposals. I am managing the proposal, and, as a
          > member of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2/WG2 and am deeply involved in the encoding of
          > many scripts in the Unicode/10646 it is well to leave management of the
          > proposal in my hands. I assure you I will take all comments and criticisms
          > and suggestions into account, but a few years ago Måns Björkman (I think it
          > was Måns) published a separate table and I _still_ haven't completely
          > figured out the delta between his and mine because he moved things around
          > and renamed them as well. Hence Rules 2 and 3.

          Actually, the "competing" proposal referred to was compiled by Martin T.
          Kutschker, though I provided him with a great deal of input. As I have
          not studied the principles of Unicode in great detail, I don't feel
          qualified to come up with a proposal of my own, and I shall be more than
          happy to lend my aid to that of Mr. Everson.


          > Personally, although I know that Tengwar is everyone's favourite, I would
          > like to hold off on it for a little while (I am preparing a big new summary
          > paper on it) and instead begin by looking at what I think is in fact a more
          > complete proposal, namely, that for the Cirth. See the Cirth proposal at
          > http://www.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n1641/n1641.htm

          I agree the Cirth proposal seems more complete, and since I doubt I can
          contribute much to it, I will let this matter rest until Michael feels
          the time is ripe for criticism of the Tengwar proposal.


          Yours,
          Måns


          --
          Måns Björkman "Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
          Törnby Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
          SE-179 75 Skå All mimsy were the borogoves,
          Sweden And the mome raths outgrabe."
        • John Cowan
          I propose unifying away the Cirth combining characters E5, E6, and E7 in favor of U+0302, U+0331 or U+0332, and U+0323 respectively. The Unicode Standard says
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 30, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            I propose unifying away the Cirth combining characters E5, E6, and E7
            in favor of U+0302, U+0331 or U+0332, and U+0323 respectively.

            The Unicode Standard says (version 3.0, p. 179):

            # The combining diacritical marks in this block [viz. U+0300 to U+036F]
            # are intended for general use with any script. [...] [T]he characters
            # in this block may have multiple semantic values.

            The choice between U+0331 and U+0332 depends on whether length marks
            applying to consecutive runes are merged into a single long line
            or not. If so, U+0332 is appropriate; if not, or if the evidence is
            unclear, U+0331 is appropriate. What if anything is known about this?

            --

            Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! || John Cowan <jcowan@...>
            Schliesst euer Aug vor heiliger Schau, || http://www.reutershealth.com
            Denn er genoss vom Honig-Tau, || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
            Und trank die Milch vom Paradies. -- Coleridge (tr. Politzer)
          • John Cowan
            Also, DORIAN in character names should be DORIATHRIN. -- Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! || John Cowan Schliesst euer Aug vor
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 30, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              Also, DORIAN in character names should be DORIATHRIN.

              --

              Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! || John Cowan <jcowan@...>
              Schliesst euer Aug vor heiliger Schau, || http://www.reutershealth.com
              Denn er genoss vom Honig-Tau, || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
              Und trank die Milch vom Paradies. -- Coleridge (tr. Politzer)
            • Michael Everson
              ... I knew that.... :-) Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie 15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2;
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 30, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                Ar 13:47 -0500 2000-03-30, scríobh John Cowan:
                >Also, DORIAN in character names should be DORIATHRIN.

                I knew that.... :-)

                Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
                27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
              • Michael Everson
                ... http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/cirth.pdf Ah. You mean xx6A, xx6B, and xx6C, don t you? Circumflex, underscore, and dot below? The circumflex mark
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 30, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ar 13:44 -0500 2000-03-30, scríobh John Cowan:
                  >I propose unifying away the Cirth combining characters E5, E6, and E7
                  >in favor of U+0302, U+0331 or U+0332, and U+0323 respectively.

                  http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/cirth.pdf

                  Ah. You mean xx6A, xx6B, and xx6C, don't you?

                  Circumflex, underscore, and dot below?

                  The circumflex mark is used in Cirth to indicate nasalization.
                  The underscore/macron below is used in Cirth to indicate length.
                  The dot below is used in Cirth to indicate numeric value of a rune.

                  What about the punctuation? Ken Whistler will kill us if we add yet another
                  MIDDLE DOT. Runic has a single and a multiple dot separator, but Cirth
                  definitely has one, two, three, and four dots, and I don't really favour
                  linking Runic and Cirth anyway.

                  >The choice between U+0331 and U+0332 depends on whether length marks
                  >applying to consecutive runes are merged into a single long line
                  >or not. If so, U+0332 is appropriate; if not, or if the evidence is
                  >unclear, U+0331 is appropriate. What if anything is known about this?

                  I can't remember seeing examples of the length mark. Anyone?

                  Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                  15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                  Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
                  27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
                • Michael Everson
                  Hei Måns, ... For the present you can just look at the Tengwar repertoire and note if you think you find anything missing, but hold off sending it in till you
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 30, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hei Måns,

                    >Actually, the "competing" proposal referred to was compiled by Martin T.
                    >Kutschker, though I provided him with a great deal of input. As I have
                    >not studied the principles of Unicode in great detail, I don't feel
                    >qualified to come up with a proposal of my own, and I shall be more than
                    >happy to lend my aid to that of Mr. Everson.

                    For the present you can just look at the Tengwar repertoire and note if you
                    think you find anything missing, but hold off sending it in till you see my
                    amazing contribution.

                    Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                    15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                    Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
                    27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
                  • John Cowan
                    ... Yes. I was looking at N1642 instead of your most recent version. -- Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! || John Cowan
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 30, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Michael Everson wrote:

                      > Ah. You mean xx6A, xx6B, and xx6C, don't you?

                      Yes. I was looking at N1642 instead of your most recent version.

                      --

                      Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! || John Cowan <jcowan@...>
                      Schliesst euer Aug vor heiliger Schau, || http://www.reutershealth.com
                      Denn er genoss vom Honig-Tau, || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
                      Und trank die Milch vom Paradies. -- Coleridge (tr. Politzer)
                    • Michael Everson
                      OK, folks, the draft is available at http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar.pdf It is a draft. This will be obvious when you look at it. Comment is
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 13, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK, folks, the draft is available at
                        http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar.pdf

                        It is a draft. This will be obvious when you look at it. Comment is invited.

                        Guidelines on how to proceed with discussion:

                        1. Do not post "competing" proposals. I am managing the proposal, and, as a
                        member of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2/WG2 and am deeply involved in the encoding of
                        many scripts in the Unicode/10646 it is well to leave management of the
                        proposal in my hands. I assure you I will take all comments and criticisms
                        and suggestions into account, but a few years ago Måns Björkman (I think it
                        was Måns) published a separate table and I _still_ haven't completely
                        figured out the delta between his and mine because he moved things around
                        and renamed them as well. Hence Rules 2 and 3.

                        2. Do not worry about the order of the characters in the table right now.
                        Ordering is irrelevant to the UCS character set encoding, and we can settle
                        on the aesthetics of the table layout LATER.

                        3. Do not worry too much about the character names right now. We do need to
                        discuss them and settle on good ones, but they're less important than Rule
                        4.

                        4. We need to determine whether the character set is complete or not. Are
                        there characters missing? Are there characters which are duplicates of each
                        other and should be unified? Are there characters which are unified and
                        should be differentiated? Do we have citations for EACH character we encode?

                        Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                        15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                        Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
                        27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
                      • Robert Brady
                        ... I m not convinced about the idea of modes needing particular font/rendering logic. Whilst I appreciate that this is done in order that the underlying
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 13, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Michael Everson wrote:

                          > OK, folks, the draft is available at
                          > http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar.pdf
                          >
                          > It is a draft. This will be obvious when you look at it. Comment is invited.

                          I'm not convinced about the idea of modes needing particular
                          font/rendering logic. Whilst I appreciate that this is done in order that
                          the underlying spelling is the same, this isn't really a useful property
                          to have : there are only a few Quenya and Sindarin sounds that share the
                          same character in their normal modes, and they are different languages, so
                          words and names will (in the general case) be spelt differently anyway...

                          This would complicate writing a renderer, and make it impossible to
                          represent different modes in plaintext.

                          apart from that...

                          xx2D (short carrier) is mentioned in Appendix E :

                          "When there was no consonant present in the required position, the
                          /tehta/ was placed above the 'short carrier', of which a common form
                          was like an undotted i."


                          xx70 - xx7D come from a manuscript that I think was published in /Vinyar
                          Tengwar/. Perhaps someone else knows which issue.

                          I see no obvious (or subtle) errors.

                          --
                          Robert
                          "Any person who knowingly causes a nuclear weapon test explosion or any other
                          nuclear explosion is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on
                          indictment to imprisonment for life." -- Nuclear Explosions Act 1998.
                        • Michael Everson
                          ... You would get Quenya regularly represented: N-E-Ld-E nelde , N-E-L-T-I-Ld-I neltildi and S-I-L-M-A-R-I-L~-I-X-O-N SILMARILLION. But Sindarin would be
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 14, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ar 20:01 +0100 2000-04-13, scríobh Robert Brady:

                            >I'm not convinced about the idea of modes needing particular
                            >font/rendering logic. Whilst I appreciate that this is done in order that
                            >the underlying spelling is the same, this isn't really a useful property
                            >to have : there are only a few Quenya and Sindarin sounds that share the
                            >same character in their normal modes, and they are different languages, so
                            >words and names will (in the general case) be spelt differently anyway...

                            You would get Quenya regularly represented: N-E-Ld-E 'nelde',
                            N-E-L-T-I-Ld-I 'neltildi' and S-I-L-M-A-R-I-L~-I-X-O-N 'SILMARILLION. But
                            Sindarin would be incorrectly represented: N-L-E-D-E 'neled', NLEThLI
                            'nelthil', and S-L-I-V-R-A-L~-I-X-I-R-O 'SILMARILLION'.

                            >This would complicate writing a renderer, and make it impossible to
                            >represent different modes in plaintext.

                            Actually not. You just have to have smart fonts to get the ligatures (as
                            you do for Arabic and Devanagari) and even if you didn't you would still
                            get a legible text (with the tehtar simply showing as nonspacing:

                            Quenya N´LD´ 'nelde', N´LT·Ld· 'neltildi'
                            Sindarin N´L´D 'neled', N´LTh·L 'nelThil'

                            Yes, we'll have to have good fonts, but we would need those ANYWAY in order
                            to get the nonspacing tehtar to combine correctly over their consonants.

                            And the alternative would be expensive inputting software to meet Sindarin
                            or English expectations. This is what you'd have to do to meet the user's
                            "underlying spelling" expectations, which they probably want to use on
                            inputting because it is lots easier.

                            >apart from that...
                            >
                            > xx2D (short carrier) is mentioned in Appendix E :
                            >
                            > "When there was no consonant present in the required position, the
                            > /tehta/ was placed above the 'short carrier', of which a common form
                            > was like an undotted i."

                            Oops, that's an error in the names list. xx2D isn't the short charrier, it
                            is halla. The short carrier is xx2E. So I don't have the attestation for
                            halla yet.

                            > xx70 - xx7D come from a manuscript that I think was published in /Vinyar
                            > Tengwar/. Perhaps someone else knows which issue.
                            >
                            >I see no obvious (or subtle) errors.

                            Apparently it was Quettar 13 and 14, but I do not have these. (I need them.)

                            Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                            15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                            Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
                            27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
                          • Robert Brady
                            ... Ok. That convinces me. I m just concerned about the complexity, as it is not likely software companies will devote any effort to Tengwar support, so it
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 14, 2000
                            • 0 Attachment
                              On Fri, 14 Apr 2000, Michael Everson wrote:

                              > Actually not. You just have to have smart fonts to get the ligatures (as
                              > you do for Arabic and Devanagari) and even if you didn't you would still
                              > get a legible text (with the tehtar simply showing as nonspacing:
                              >
                              > Quenya N�LD� 'nelde', N�LT�Ld� 'neltildi'
                              > Sindarin N�L�D 'neled', N�LTh�L 'nelThil'
                              >
                              > Yes, we'll have to have good fonts, but we would need those ANYWAY in order
                              > to get the nonspacing tehtar to combine correctly over their consonants.

                              Ok. That convinces me. I'm just concerned about the complexity, as it is
                              not likely software companies will devote any effort to Tengwar support, so
                              it should be that adding support is a 'no-brainer'. (Less conventional
                              operating systems such as Linux will certainly have support for Tengwar).

                              Have the committes of ISO and Unicode responsible for such matters
                              approved, in principle, to the encoding of Tengwar (and Cirth) in the UCS?

                              --
                              Robert
                            • Michael Everson
                              ... It is a complex writing system, and I suspect it won t really get encoded until we have in implementation font. I m concerned about whether I got the Old
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 14, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Ar 18:56 +0100 2000-04-14, scríobh Robert Brady:

                                >Ok. That convinces me. I'm just concerned about the complexity, as it is
                                >not likely software companies will devote any effort to Tengwar support, so
                                >it should be that adding support is a 'no-brainer'. (Less conventional
                                >operating systems such as Linux will certainly have support for Tengwar).

                                It is a complex writing system, and I suspect it won't really get encoded
                                until we have in implementation font. I'm concerned about whether I got the
                                Old English vowel encoding right.

                                >Have the committes of ISO and Unicode responsible for such matters
                                >approved, in principle, to the encoding of Tengwar (and Cirth) in the UCS?

                                While they hiss and spit at Klingon, the feeling does seem to be that
                                Tengwar and Cirth are legitimate scripts for encoding. (Not that this was a
                                reason I proposed Klingon along with Tengwar and Cirth, oh my no....)

                                Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                                15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                                Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
                                27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
                              • John Cowan
                                ... They neither approve nor disapprove until a specific proposal is in hand. What we are doing is refining the draft of such a proposal. -- Schlingt dreifach
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 14, 2000
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Robert Brady wrote:

                                  > Have the committes of ISO and Unicode responsible for such matters
                                  > approved, in principle, to the encoding of Tengwar (and Cirth) in the UCS?

                                  They neither approve nor disapprove until a specific proposal is in hand.
                                  What we are doing is refining the draft of such a proposal.

                                  --

                                  Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! || John Cowan <jcowan@...>
                                  Schliesst euer Aug vor heiliger Schau, || http://www.reutershealth.com
                                  Denn er genoss vom Honig-Tau, || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
                                  Und trank die Milch vom Paradies. -- Coleridge (tr. Politzer)
                                • Abrigon
                                  http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/hindi/alphabet/ http://www.ajeyabharat.com/slogans_hindi.html For ideas on what it looks like, for possible comparison with
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 15, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/hindi/alphabet/

                                    http://www.ajeyabharat.com/slogans_hindi.html

                                    For ideas on what it looks like, for possible comparison with
                                    Tengwar..

                                    I do know that many of the lingos of India, and SE and to a degree NE
                                    of India are based on fully or partially on the script that Sanskrit
                                    used.. Some are harder to tell the origin, especially by the time you
                                    get to Java and their script is very curvy.

                                    Mike
                                  • Nicole Mate
                                    Hi, I know you all get annoyed by random translation requests, but I need a little help. I have a phrase translated into Sindarian and Quenya and I need each
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 13, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi,
                                      I know you all get annoyed by random translation requests, but I need a little help. I have a phrase translated into Sindarian and Quenya and I need each transcribed into Tengwar (and actually, if anyone has time, could you check the translations I have - I am almost positive they're right, but you never know). I have tried in so many different places to transcribe these or download a font, but nothing I am doing seems to work. If any of you can help me, or tell me what I can do to do it myself, I would be incredibly grateful. Thanks! The phrase is �see my pain�, here are the translations I already have.
                                      Quenya - � cen� nwalmenya or c�n� naicenya
                                      Sindarian - ceno naeg n�n. or ceno i naeg n�n.

                                      Once again, Thank you!


                                      ---------------------------------
                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                      Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.