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Re: [elfscript] Tengwar Parmaite font now available

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  • Edward J. Kloczko
    ... I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...). EJK
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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      Emanuele Vicentini a écrit:
      >
      > Greetings,
      >
      > On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:
      >
      > > Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
      >
      > Unfortunately I don't have that old issue of Quettar, but a small
      > sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be
      > downloaded staring from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/ and
      > searching. It's a PostScript document.

      I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...).

      EJK
    • Michael Everson
      ... I ve translated it to PDF. See http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-numbers.pdf -- Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta **
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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        At 14:24 +0100 2001-03-02, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:

        > > > Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
        > >
        > > Unfortunately I don't have that old issue of Quettar, but a small
        > > sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be
        > > downloaded staring from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/ and
        >> searching. It's a PostScript document.
        >
        >I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...).

        I've translated it to PDF. See
        http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-numbers.pdf
        --
        Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
        15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
        Mob +353 86 807 9169 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Vox +353 1 478 2597
        27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
      • Mans Bjorkman
        ... That is a reasonable speculation, yes. ... I assume you are referring to Gandalf s quoting Isildur s description of the Ring during the Council of Elrond
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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          "Edward J. Kloczko" wrote:
          >
          > Mans Bjorkman a écrit:
          > >
          > <snip>
          >
          > > > The double curls (for ú, ó) are missing.
          > >
          > > As I understand, the "ligature" double curls only occur in the
          > > ring-inscription style of writing. Doubled curls may be produced by
          > > simply writing two consecutive curls.
          >
          > The published corpus of tengwar inscription is _very_ small compared to what
          > Tolkien have done.

          That is a reasonable speculation, yes.


          > The double curls could have been "usual" in the "Eregion Mode" (Sauron adapted
          > it to BS according to "Gandalf").

          I assume you are referring to Gandalf's quoting Isildur's description of
          the Ring during the Council of Elrond (so it's actually "according to
          'Isildur'")? The ring-inscription is described thus: "It is fashioned in
          an elven-script of Eregion, for they have no letters in Mordor for such
          subtle work; but the language is unknown to me [i.e. Isildur]."

          I don't think this refers to the *mode* used on the Ring, but rather to
          the graphic style of the letters, or perhaps simply the writing system
          itself. Double curls were probably common in many modes outside Eregion
          (where, judging by the Moria Gate, the mode of Beleriand was the most
          popular for Sindarin). In an alternative Tengwar inscription of the
          beginning of _Namárie_, *all* vowels except _a_ are written with doubled
          tehtar whenever possible. I maintain, though, that the *ligature* curls
          were specific for the writing style used in the ring-inscription.


          > I find it niecer to have one caracter
          > instead of typing two.

          Well, it's difficult to argue against that.


          Regards,
          Måns


          --
          Måns Björkman "Mun þu mik!
          Störtloppsvägen 8, III Man þik.
          SE-129 46 Hägersten Un þu mer!
          Sweden http://hem.passagen.se/mansb An þer."
        • Edward J. Kloczko
          ... Thank you very much! Vive PDF! ;-) Well, the only thing left now is someone with the Quettar... ;-) EJK
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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            Michael Everson a écrit:
            >
            > At 14:24 +0100 2001-03-02, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:
            >
            > > > > Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
            > > >
            > > > Unfortunately I don't have that old issue of Quettar, but a small
            > > > sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be
            > > > downloaded staring from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/ and
            > >> searching. It's a PostScript document.
            > >
            > >I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...).
            >
            > I've translated it to PDF. See
            > http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-numbers.pdf

            Thank you very much!

            Vive PDF! ;-)

            Well, the only thing left now is someone with the Quettar... ;-)

            EJK
          • Edward J. Kloczko
            ... I don t have my books ta hand... I still think it is a mode... Come back to that later. It reminds me that Frodo was (if I remember right) unable to _read_
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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              Mans Bjorkman a écrit:
              >
              > "Edward J. Kloczko" wrote:
              > >
              > > Mans Bjorkman a écrit:
              > > >
              > > <snip>
              > >
              > > > > The double curls (for ú, ó) are missing.
              > > >
              > > > As I understand, the "ligature" double curls only occur in the
              > > > ring-inscription style of writing. Doubled curls may be produced by
              > > > simply writing two consecutive curls.
              > >
              > > The published corpus of tengwar inscription is _very_ small compared to what
              > > Tolkien have done.
              >
              > That is a reasonable speculation, yes.
              >
              > > The double curls could have been "usual" in the "Eregion Mode" (Sauron adapted
              > > it to BS according to "Gandalf").
              >
              > I assume you are referring to Gandalf's quoting Isildur's description of
              > the Ring during the Council of Elrond (so it's actually "according to
              > 'Isildur'")? The ring-inscription is described thus: "It is fashioned in
              > an elven-script of Eregion, for they have no letters in Mordor for such
              > subtle work; but the language is unknown to me [i.e. Isildur]."
              >
              > I don't think this refers to the *mode* used on the Ring, but rather to
              > the graphic style of the letters, or perhaps simply the writing system
              > itself. Double curls were probably common in many modes outside Eregion
              > (where, judging by the Moria Gate, the mode of Beleriand was the most
              > popular for Sindarin). In an alternative Tengwar inscription of the
              > beginning of _Namárie_, *all* vowels except _a_ are written with doubled
              > tehtar whenever possible. I maintain, though, that the *ligature* curls
              > were specific for the writing style used in the ring-inscription.
              >

              I don't have my books ta hand... I still think it is a mode...
              Come back to that later.

              It reminds me that Frodo was (if I remember right) unable to _read_ the
              Ring-inscription, this would point towards the theory that my reconstruced
              "Northern Mode" was in fact the only one used in the Shire at that time.

              EJK
            • Michael Everson
              ... I cannot read the fiery letters could simply mean that he didn t understand the Black Speech. -- Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta **
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                At 18:33 +0100 2001-03-02, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:

                >It reminds me that Frodo was (if I remember right) unable to _read_ the
                >Ring-inscription, this would point towards the theory that my reconstruced
                >"Northern Mode" was in fact the only one used in the Shire at that time.

                "I cannot read the fiery letters" could simply mean that he didn't
                understand the Black Speech.
                --
                Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                Mob +353 86 807 9169 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Vox +353 1 478 2597
                27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
              • Helge K. Fauskanger
                ... I installed it, and I can certainly recommend it. I find it very clear and legible. While no font can ever quite match the calligraphy that only a living
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                  Måns Björkman wrote:
                  > Tengwar Parmaite font now available

                  I installed it, and I can certainly recommend it. I find it very clear and
                  legible. While no font can ever quite match the calligraphy that only a
                  living hand can achieve, the Parmaite font looks nice and tidy. If I were
                  to print a book in Tengwar, this font would probably be the one I would
                  use, based on the alternatives I have seen. (Not that most of these
                  alternatives were particularly bad, either!)

                  Visiting Måns' site, I also noticed that the problems I have earlier
                  experienced (my browser making an almost completely illegible mess of
                  everything) were largely gone. I am glad, for this is an admirable site;
                  Måns has done for the scripts what I have tried to do for the languages.
                  Congratulations!

                  - Helge Fauskanger
                • Dan Smith
                  ... try here: http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip (75KB) It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the Beyond Bree (1984) articles on
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                    >Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:59:26 +0100
                    >From: "Edward J. Kloczko" <ejk@...>
                    >Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?

                    try here:
                    "http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip" (75KB)

                    It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the
                    Beyond Bree (1984) articles on numerals.


                    --
                    Daniel Steven Smith / fontmaster@...
                    Fantasy Fonts for Windows / <><
                    http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/
                  • Lisa Star
                    ... **this address doesn t work. ... ** Lisa Star ** LisaStar@earthling.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 7, 2001
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                      >From: Dan Smith <dansmith@...>
                      >Reply-To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                      >CC: ejk@...
                      >Subject: [elfscript] Re: Tengwar Parmaite font now available
                      >Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:51:48 -0500
                      >
                      > >Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:59:26 +0100
                      > >From: "Edward J. Kloczko" <ejk@...>
                      > >Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
                      >
                      >try here:
                      >"http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip" (75KB)

                      **this address doesn't work.

                      >It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the
                      >Beyond Bree (1984) articles on numerals.

                      ** Lisa Star
                      ** LisaStar@...
                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                    • Dan Smith
                      ... I just tried it and it worked for me. Perhaps geocities was having one of it s fits when you were trying to download it.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 8, 2001
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                        >>From: Dan Smith <dansmith@...>
                        >>Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:51:48 -0500
                        >>"http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip" (75KB)
                        >>It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the
                        >>Beyond Bree (1984) articles on numerals.
                        >
                        >Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:35:43 -0000
                        >From: "Lisa Star" <amlug4@...>
                        >**this address doesn't work.

                        I just tried it and it worked for me.
                        Perhaps geocities was having one of it's fits when
                        you were trying to download it.
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