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Re: [elfscript] A new Tengwar TTF with Dan Smith Keyboad Layout ist almost ready!!

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  • Johan Winge
    ... Overall I like it very much! One of the best I would say - keep up the good work! I ll give you some of my thoughts on some aspects of the letter shapes in
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
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      At 14:41 2002-12-02 -0000, "eemunsj" wrote:
      >
      >The font is now (almost) ready for an evaluation phase. The forms of
      >the letters were inspired by the writting of JRR Tolfien in the
      >Appendix of LOTR. I hope you like them. I will post the TTF file soon.
      >In order you to know how the font looks like, I am posting now an
      >image.

      Overall I like it very much! One of the best I would say - keep up the good
      work!

      I'll give you some of my thoughts on some aspects of the letter shapes in
      your image. Please criticise them everyone - I would like to hear your
      thoughts too.

      Perhaps you should adjust the balance between the two lúvar, (in e.g. ando,
      and (primarily) those where the telco has a serif at the baseline, e.g.
      númen): The spacing between the telco and the "tail" of the first lúva is
      more narrow than the gap between that lúva and the next, making the tengwa
      too heavy at the left (in my opinion of course). I would try to widen the
      first luva by (very carefully) elongating the first part of the stroke, the
      upward, left part where it attaches to the telco. Simply copying the lúvar
      into different positions is not enough I'm afraid - they need individual
      tuning.

      I do not like the bars in the second row. Somewhat straight and boring
      compared to the ones in the fourth row, and, what's more important,
      terminated in an ugly serif. I mean, everywhere else you make them slanted
      at something like, perhaps 20 degrees from the baseline, but here they are
      vertical? Is there some reasoning behind this? My spontaneous thought is
      that it could be done better.

      I notice that you have made the lúva broader when it is single, which is
      good. With that bar in place though, I think parma, formen and vala look
      too "crushed", or stretched perhaps. I think this impression is
      strengthened because of the bar being thinner than the telco. I would be
      interested in seeing a version of this font with a slightly thinner telco
      in all tengwar, although I realise this may mean much work for you.

      In the fourth row, I like the bars better, though its sloping down in the
      middle may make it seem like a heavy weight on the tengwa, making a
      somewhat gloomy appearance. Intentionally perhaps?

      If I were to design a rómen and arda I would make the upper chamber larger,
      perhaps closing it like Danny suggested, and shorten the tail, to make it
      more similar to Tolkien's own rómen/arda in the table.

      In lambe, the top bar looks just a bit too big, i.e. wide, compared to the
      lúva. Furthermore, in both lambe and alda, the bar is started and
      terminated in very sharp points - I would smoothen them. (I would also
      reduce the "wobbling", but this is just my personal taste.)

      I'm very eager to get to see the tehtar and try the font in a longer text.
      It is difficult to get an impression from just the individual letters on
      their own.

      What software are you using, by the way? And what is your name?

      Regards,
      Johan Winge
    • gildir_2
      ... some ... PC). ... of ... soon. ... Show us some tehtar, too, please! One VERY difficult thing is to make sure that all (sensible) combination of tengwar
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 3, 2002
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        --- In elfscript@y..., "eemunsj" <eemunsj@y...> wrote:
        > Hi people!
        >
        > This is my first post in the group. Excuse me if I make mistakes in
        > English, since my mother tongue is spanish. I´ve been investing
        some
        > time since April 2002 in developing a new Tengwar font (TTF for
        PC).
        > I wish to thank to Dan Smith for his invaluable advice. I followed
        > his suggestion of using the same Keyboard Layout as in Tengwar
        > Sidarin.
        > The font is now (almost) ready for an evaluation phase. The forms
        of
        > the letters were inspired by the writting of JRR Tolfien in the
        > Appendix of LOTR. I hope you like them. I will post the TTF file
        soon.
        > In order you to know how the font looks like, I am posting now an
        > image.

        Show us some tehtar, too, please!

        One VERY difficult thing is to make sure that all
        (sensible) combination of tengwar and tehtar work.
        For example: under-wave should go INSIDE Lambe and
        Rómen. Same for under-dots. My usage guides on the
        Mellonath Daeron web site will give a few examples:

        http://forodrim.letsrock.nu/daeron/md_teng_primers.html

        One aestetic nit: The serifs at the bottom of the
        telcor (staves) look rather un-Tolkien (or rather
        un-calligraphic) to me.

        We look forward to your font with great anticipation!
        Best wishes!

        Gildir, Per Lindberg
      • eemunsj
        Hi! About the too wide aspect of vala, etc. (Bars in the second row), you are right. I am working on it. I discovered that the visual effect is due to the fact
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 3, 2002
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          Hi!

          About the too wide aspect of vala, etc. (Bars in the second row), you
          are right. I am working on it. I discovered that the visual effect is
          due to the fact that the low bar is too high and as a consequence the
          empty space in the middle becomes too flat. About the serif... is not
          ugly but I admit that it is not really nice either. The first attempt
          was already done. Find the new vala.jpg in the files section.
          By the way, my name is Enrique Mombello (pronounced as: enrike
          mombelo) and I come from Argentina.
          See you

          Enrique


          --- In elfscript@y..., Johan Winge <johan.winge@t...> wrote:
          > At 14:41 2002-12-02 -0000, "eemunsj" wrote:
          > >
          > >The font is now (almost) ready for an evaluation phase. The forms
          of
          > >the letters were inspired by the writting of JRR Tolfien in the
          > >Appendix of LOTR. I hope you like them. I will post the TTF file
          soon.
          > >In order you to know how the font looks like, I am posting now an
          > >image.
          >
          > Overall I like it very much! One of the best I would say - keep up
          the good
          > work!
          >
          > I'll give you some of my thoughts on some aspects of the letter
          shapes in
          > your image. Please criticise them everyone - I would like to hear
          your
          > thoughts too.
          >
          > Perhaps you should adjust the balance between the two lúvar, (in
          e.g. ando,
          > and (primarily) those where the telco has a serif at the baseline,
          e.g.
          > númen): The spacing between the telco and the "tail" of the first
          lúva is
          > more narrow than the gap between that lúva and the next, making the
          tengwa
          > too heavy at the left (in my opinion of course). I would try to
          widen the
          > first luva by (very carefully) elongating the first part of the
          stroke, the
          > upward, left part where it attaches to the telco. Simply copying
          the lúvar
          > into different positions is not enough I'm afraid - they need
          individual
          > tuning.
          >
          > I do not like the bars in the second row. Somewhat straight and
          boring
          > compared to the ones in the fourth row, and, what's more important,
          > terminated in an ugly serif. I mean, everywhere else you make them
          slanted
          > at something like, perhaps 20 degrees from the baseline, but here
          they are
          > vertical? Is there some reasoning behind this? My spontaneous
          thought is
          > that it could be done better.
          >
          > I notice that you have made the lúva broader when it is single,
          which is
          > good. With that bar in place though, I think parma, formen and vala
          look
          > too "crushed", or stretched perhaps. I think this impression is
          > strengthened because of the bar being thinner than the telco. I
          would be
          > interested in seeing a version of this font with a slightly thinner
          telco
          > in all tengwar, although I realise this may mean much work for you.
          >
          > In the fourth row, I like the bars better, though its sloping down
          in the
          > middle may make it seem like a heavy weight on the tengwa, making a
          > somewhat gloomy appearance. Intentionally perhaps?
          >
          > If I were to design a rómen and arda I would make the upper chamber
          larger,
          > perhaps closing it like Danny suggested, and shorten the tail, to
          make it
          > more similar to Tolkien's own rómen/arda in the table.
          >
          > In lambe, the top bar looks just a bit too big, i.e. wide, compared
          to the
          > lúva. Furthermore, in both lambe and alda, the bar is started and
          > terminated in very sharp points - I would smoothen them. (I would
          also
          > reduce the "wobbling", but this is just my personal taste.)
          >
          > I'm very eager to get to see the tehtar and try the font in a
          longer text.
          > It is difficult to get an impression from just the individual
          letters on
          > their own.
          >
          > What software are you using, by the way? And what is your name?
          >
          > Regards,
          > Johan Winge
        • ktraphagen
          Enrique, Great work on the font. Please do tell us more of how you are developing them (software, etc.) Karyn ... you ... is ... the ... not ... attempt
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 3, 2002
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            Enrique,

            Great work on the font. Please do tell us more of how you are
            developing them (software, etc.)

            Karyn

            --- In elfscript@y..., "eemunsj" <eemunsj@y...> wrote:
            > Hi!
            >
            > About the too wide aspect of vala, etc. (Bars in the second row),
            you
            > are right. I am working on it. I discovered that the visual effect
            is
            > due to the fact that the low bar is too high and as a consequence
            the
            > empty space in the middle becomes too flat. About the serif... is
            not
            > ugly but I admit that it is not really nice either. The first
            attempt
            > was already done. Find the new vala.jpg in the files section.
            > By the way, my name is Enrique Mombello (pronounced as: enrike
            > mombelo) and I come from Argentina.
            > See you
            >
            > Enrique
            >
            >
          • Johan Winge
            ... That one looks much better, I think. It makes a much more open impression. Regarding the serif, it is also better than before, (allthough not perfect in my
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 3, 2002
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              At 19:52 2002-12-03 -0000, Enrique Mombello wrote:
              >
              >About the too wide aspect of vala, etc. (Bars in the second row), you
              >are right. I am working on it. I discovered that the visual effect is
              >due to the fact that the low bar is too high and as a consequence the
              >empty space in the middle becomes too flat. About the serif... is not
              >ugly but I admit that it is not really nice either. The first attempt
              >was already done. Find the new vala.jpg in the files section.

              That one looks much better, I think. It makes a much more open impression.
              Regarding the serif, it is also better than before, (allthough not perfect
              in my opinion). Well, perhaps I should design my own font instead of making
              subjective complaints - it is your font after all. ;-)

              As I said before: Keep up the good work!

              >By the way, my name is Enrique Mombello (pronounced as: enrike
              >mombelo) and I come from Argentina.

              Nice to meet you.

              Regards,
              -- Johan Winge, Sweden
            • eemunsj
              Thanks Johan, After all, nothing is perfect, and forms is always a matter of taste. I said this is the first attempt, there is now another version, but I will
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 4, 2002
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                Thanks Johan,

                After all, nothing is perfect, and forms is always a matter of taste.
                I said this is the first attempt, there is now another version, but I
                will wait a little bit and try new forms for the questioned letters.

                Regarding the telco, this IS the final version. I have already done a
                large number of versions and this is the end of the way (at least for
                Elfica). About the unbalance... I really cannot recognize any
                unbalance, but I know what you mean, however, it is OK for me.(again:
                I´ve made too many versions with different positions of the luva in
                order to obtain the present version)

                About the top bar of lambe (and perhaps alda too) you are right
                again. I will correct these.

                Wait for the next version!


                Danni:
                Thanks for your opinion

                Several versions were done for romen and arda and these are the
                widest ones. The reason is that Thetar look better over them.
                Nebertheless, I will see what can I do (I have old versions that are
                more narrow).



                About the Thetar, I will post the Dan Smith test file (Word) with the
                Elfica TTF embedded and you can try whatever you want. But I must
                correct some things first. I guess next week.

                See you!

                Enrique




                --- In elfscript@y..., Johan Winge <johan.winge@t...> wrote:
                > At 19:52 2002-12-03 -0000, Enrique Mombello wrote:
                > >
                > >About the too wide aspect of vala, etc. (Bars in the second row),
                you
                > >are right. I am working on it. I discovered that the visual effect
                is
                > >due to the fact that the low bar is too high and as a consequence
                the
                > >empty space in the middle becomes too flat. About the serif... is
                not
                > >ugly but I admit that it is not really nice either. The first
                attempt
                > >was already done. Find the new vala.jpg in the files section.
                >
                > That one looks much better, I think. It makes a much more open
                impression.
                > Regarding the serif, it is also better than before, (allthough not
                perfect
                > in my opinion). Well, perhaps I should design my own font instead
                of making
                > subjective complaints - it is your font after all. ;-)
                >
                > As I said before: Keep up the good work!
                >
                > >By the way, my name is Enrique Mombello (pronounced as: enrike
                > >mombelo) and I come from Argentina.
                >
                > Nice to meet you.
                >
                > Regards,
                > -- Johan Winge, Sweden
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