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Tengwar Parmaite font now available

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  • Mans Bjorkman
    Sarmendili, My Tengwar font Tengwar Parmaite is now available for downloading from the web site _Amanye Tenceli_ ( http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at ). Comments
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 26, 2001
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      Sarmendili,

      My Tengwar font Tengwar Parmaite is now available for downloading from
      the web site _Amanye Tenceli_ ( http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at ).
      Comments and suggestions are welcome!

      Yours,
      Måns

      --
      Måns Björkman "Mun þu mik!
      Störtloppsvägen 8, III Man þik.
      SE-129 46 Hägersten Un þu mer!
      Sweden http://hem.passagen.se/mansb An þer."
    • Edward J. Kloczko
      ... Your documentation is in RTF. My TT converter unfortunately does rearage the tengwar (I work only with Macs). So I cannot interpert your RTF doc as it
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 27, 2001
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        Tegilbor Mans Bjorkman wrote :

        >
        > Sarmendili,
        >
        > My Tengwar font Tengwar Parmaite is now available for downloading from
        > the web site _Amanye Tenceli_ ( http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at ).
        > Comments and suggestions are welcome!
        >

        Your documentation is in RTF. My TT converter
        unfortunately does rearage the tengwar (I work only with Macs). So I
        cannot interpert your RTF doc as it should be.
        Could you make a PDF file instead?

        The double curls (for ú, ó) are missing.

        The tengwar are quite nice, but the "closing" telcor (the "bar" which makes
        a calma into a quesse) are a little thick. The number are a little too thick
        too.

        Your _special_ number 6 from Argaorn's letter is in fact a "normal" 6 (from
        what I have seen).

        I have (as many) a photocopy of a text about numeral written
        by _hand_ by CT in which the luvar are in fact not closed.

        I don't know if my copy is the (2) text(s) as published in Quettar.
        Never had a copy of it.

        But the _hand_ of JRRT does indeed close the luvar for number 5 & 6 in tengwar
        as seen in the letter.

        EJK
      • Mans Bjorkman
        ... It s in the works. ... As I understand, the ligature double curls only occur in the ring-inscription style of writing. Doubled curls may be produced by
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 28, 2001
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          Edward J. Kloczko wrote:
          >
          > Your documentation is in RTF. My TT converter
          > unfortunately does rearage the tengwar (I work only with Macs). So I
          > cannot interpert your RTF doc as it should be.
          > Could you make a PDF file instead?

          It's in the works.


          > The double curls (for ú, ó) are missing.

          As I understand, the "ligature" double curls only occur in the
          ring-inscription style of writing. Doubled curls may be produced by
          simply writing two consecutive curls.


          > The tengwar are quite nice, but the "closing" telcor (the "bar" which makes
          > a calma into a quesse) are a little thick. The number are a little too thick
          > too.

          Well, that's the style of this font, I'm afraid.


          > Your _special_ number 6 from Argaorn's letter is in fact a "normal" 6 (from
          > what I have seen).

          Surely enough, the "Alternate form of _rómen_" is a normal _rómen_ which
          mistakenly was begun as an _óre_. I just happened to need this tengwa
          for a project I'm working on. :)

          > I have (as many) a photocopy of a text about numeral written
          > by _hand_ by CT in which the luvar are in fact not closed.

          And how would one go about obtaining such a photocopy?


          > I don't know if my copy is the (2) text(s) as published in Quettar.
          > Never had a copy of it.

          Well, as they appear in _Beyond Bree_ (December 1984) the luvar are
          unquestionably closed. And this version appears to be hand written by
          Christopher Tolkien too, since it is signed "CRT after JRRT 16 May
          1981".


          Regards,
          Måns


          --
          Måns Björkman "Mun þu mik!
          Störtloppsvägen 8, III Man þik.
          SE-129 46 Hägersten Un þu mer!
          Sweden http://hem.passagen.se/mansb An þer."
        • Edward J. Kloczko
          ... ... The published corpus of tengwar inscription is _very_ small compared to what Tolkien have done. The double curls could have been usual in the
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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            Mans Bjorkman a écrit:
            >
            <snip>

            > > The double curls (for ú, ó) are missing.
            >
            > As I understand, the "ligature" double curls only occur in the
            > ring-inscription style of writing. Doubled curls may be produced by
            > simply writing two consecutive curls.

            The published corpus of tengwar inscription is _very_ small compared to what
            Tolkien have done.
            The double curls could have been "usual" in the "Eregion Mode" (Sauron adapted
            it to BS according to "Gandalf"). I find it niecer to have one caracter
            instead of typing two.

            <snip>

            >
            > > I have (as many) a photocopy of a text about numeral written
            > > by _hand_ by CT in which the luvar are in fact not closed.
            >
            > And how would one go about obtaining such a photocopy?
            >
            > > I don't know if my copy is the (2) text(s) as published in Quettar.
            > > Never had a copy of it.
            >
            > Well, as they appear in _Beyond Bree_ (December 1984) the luvar are
            > unquestionably closed. And this version appears to be hand written by
            > Christopher Tolkien too, since it is signed "CRT after JRRT 16 May
            > 1981".
            >

            An echange of our copies would be a good thing I guess.

            Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?

            EJK
          • Emanuele Vicentini
            Greetings, ... Unfortunately I don t have that old issue of Quettar, but a small sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be downloaded
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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              Greetings,

              On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:

              > Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?

              Unfortunately I don't have that old issue of Quettar, but a small
              sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be
              downloaded staring from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/ and
              searching. It's a PostScript document.


              Saluti,
              Emanuele.

              "He loved maps, as I have told you before; and he also
              liked runes and letters and cunning handwriting..."
              -- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit
            • Edward J. Kloczko
              ... I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...). EJK
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                Emanuele Vicentini a écrit:
                >
                > Greetings,
                >
                > On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:
                >
                > > Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
                >
                > Unfortunately I don't have that old issue of Quettar, but a small
                > sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be
                > downloaded staring from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/ and
                > searching. It's a PostScript document.

                I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...).

                EJK
              • Michael Everson
                ... I ve translated it to PDF. See http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-numbers.pdf -- Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta **
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                  At 14:24 +0100 2001-03-02, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:

                  > > > Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
                  > >
                  > > Unfortunately I don't have that old issue of Quettar, but a small
                  > > sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be
                  > > downloaded staring from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/ and
                  >> searching. It's a PostScript document.
                  >
                  >I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...).

                  I've translated it to PDF. See
                  http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-numbers.pdf
                  --
                  Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                  15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                  Mob +353 86 807 9169 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Vox +353 1 478 2597
                  27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
                • Mans Bjorkman
                  ... That is a reasonable speculation, yes. ... I assume you are referring to Gandalf s quoting Isildur s description of the Ring during the Council of Elrond
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                    "Edward J. Kloczko" wrote:
                    >
                    > Mans Bjorkman a écrit:
                    > >
                    > <snip>
                    >
                    > > > The double curls (for ú, ó) are missing.
                    > >
                    > > As I understand, the "ligature" double curls only occur in the
                    > > ring-inscription style of writing. Doubled curls may be produced by
                    > > simply writing two consecutive curls.
                    >
                    > The published corpus of tengwar inscription is _very_ small compared to what
                    > Tolkien have done.

                    That is a reasonable speculation, yes.


                    > The double curls could have been "usual" in the "Eregion Mode" (Sauron adapted
                    > it to BS according to "Gandalf").

                    I assume you are referring to Gandalf's quoting Isildur's description of
                    the Ring during the Council of Elrond (so it's actually "according to
                    'Isildur'")? The ring-inscription is described thus: "It is fashioned in
                    an elven-script of Eregion, for they have no letters in Mordor for such
                    subtle work; but the language is unknown to me [i.e. Isildur]."

                    I don't think this refers to the *mode* used on the Ring, but rather to
                    the graphic style of the letters, or perhaps simply the writing system
                    itself. Double curls were probably common in many modes outside Eregion
                    (where, judging by the Moria Gate, the mode of Beleriand was the most
                    popular for Sindarin). In an alternative Tengwar inscription of the
                    beginning of _Namárie_, *all* vowels except _a_ are written with doubled
                    tehtar whenever possible. I maintain, though, that the *ligature* curls
                    were specific for the writing style used in the ring-inscription.


                    > I find it niecer to have one caracter
                    > instead of typing two.

                    Well, it's difficult to argue against that.


                    Regards,
                    Måns


                    --
                    Måns Björkman "Mun þu mik!
                    Störtloppsvägen 8, III Man þik.
                    SE-129 46 Hägersten Un þu mer!
                    Sweden http://hem.passagen.se/mansb An þer."
                  • Edward J. Kloczko
                    ... Thank you very much! Vive PDF! ;-) Well, the only thing left now is someone with the Quettar... ;-) EJK
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                      Michael Everson a écrit:
                      >
                      > At 14:24 +0100 2001-03-02, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:
                      >
                      > > > > Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
                      > > >
                      > > > Unfortunately I don't have that old issue of Quettar, but a small
                      > > > sample of Quenya numerals (an extract of Quettar, actually) can be
                      > > > downloaded staring from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/ and
                      > >> searching. It's a PostScript document.
                      > >
                      > >I was not able to interpret this document (even with Photoshop...).
                      >
                      > I've translated it to PDF. See
                      > http://www.egt.ie/standards/iso10646/pdf/tengwar-numbers.pdf

                      Thank you very much!

                      Vive PDF! ;-)

                      Well, the only thing left now is someone with the Quettar... ;-)

                      EJK
                    • Edward J. Kloczko
                      ... I don t have my books ta hand... I still think it is a mode... Come back to that later. It reminds me that Frodo was (if I remember right) unable to _read_
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                        Mans Bjorkman a écrit:
                        >
                        > "Edward J. Kloczko" wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Mans Bjorkman a écrit:
                        > > >
                        > > <snip>
                        > >
                        > > > > The double curls (for ú, ó) are missing.
                        > > >
                        > > > As I understand, the "ligature" double curls only occur in the
                        > > > ring-inscription style of writing. Doubled curls may be produced by
                        > > > simply writing two consecutive curls.
                        > >
                        > > The published corpus of tengwar inscription is _very_ small compared to what
                        > > Tolkien have done.
                        >
                        > That is a reasonable speculation, yes.
                        >
                        > > The double curls could have been "usual" in the "Eregion Mode" (Sauron adapted
                        > > it to BS according to "Gandalf").
                        >
                        > I assume you are referring to Gandalf's quoting Isildur's description of
                        > the Ring during the Council of Elrond (so it's actually "according to
                        > 'Isildur'")? The ring-inscription is described thus: "It is fashioned in
                        > an elven-script of Eregion, for they have no letters in Mordor for such
                        > subtle work; but the language is unknown to me [i.e. Isildur]."
                        >
                        > I don't think this refers to the *mode* used on the Ring, but rather to
                        > the graphic style of the letters, or perhaps simply the writing system
                        > itself. Double curls were probably common in many modes outside Eregion
                        > (where, judging by the Moria Gate, the mode of Beleriand was the most
                        > popular for Sindarin). In an alternative Tengwar inscription of the
                        > beginning of _Namárie_, *all* vowels except _a_ are written with doubled
                        > tehtar whenever possible. I maintain, though, that the *ligature* curls
                        > were specific for the writing style used in the ring-inscription.
                        >

                        I don't have my books ta hand... I still think it is a mode...
                        Come back to that later.

                        It reminds me that Frodo was (if I remember right) unable to _read_ the
                        Ring-inscription, this would point towards the theory that my reconstruced
                        "Northern Mode" was in fact the only one used in the Shire at that time.

                        EJK
                      • Michael Everson
                        ... I cannot read the fiery letters could simply mean that he didn t understand the Black Speech. -- Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta **
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                          At 18:33 +0100 2001-03-02, Edward J. Kloczko wrote:

                          >It reminds me that Frodo was (if I remember right) unable to _read_ the
                          >Ring-inscription, this would point towards the theory that my reconstruced
                          >"Northern Mode" was in fact the only one used in the Shire at that time.

                          "I cannot read the fiery letters" could simply mean that he didn't
                          understand the Black Speech.
                          --
                          Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
                          15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
                          Mob +353 86 807 9169 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Vox +353 1 478 2597
                          27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire
                        • Helge K. Fauskanger
                          ... I installed it, and I can certainly recommend it. I find it very clear and legible. While no font can ever quite match the calligraphy that only a living
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                            Måns Björkman wrote:
                            > Tengwar Parmaite font now available

                            I installed it, and I can certainly recommend it. I find it very clear and
                            legible. While no font can ever quite match the calligraphy that only a
                            living hand can achieve, the Parmaite font looks nice and tidy. If I were
                            to print a book in Tengwar, this font would probably be the one I would
                            use, based on the alternatives I have seen. (Not that most of these
                            alternatives were particularly bad, either!)

                            Visiting Måns' site, I also noticed that the problems I have earlier
                            experienced (my browser making an almost completely illegible mess of
                            everything) were largely gone. I am glad, for this is an admirable site;
                            Måns has done for the scripts what I have tried to do for the languages.
                            Congratulations!

                            - Helge Fauskanger
                          • Dan Smith
                            ... try here: http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip (75KB) It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the Beyond Bree (1984) articles on
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 2, 2001
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                              >Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:59:26 +0100
                              >From: "Edward J. Kloczko" <ejk@...>
                              >Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?

                              try here:
                              "http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip" (75KB)

                              It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the
                              Beyond Bree (1984) articles on numerals.


                              --
                              Daniel Steven Smith / fontmaster@...
                              Fantasy Fonts for Windows / <><
                              http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/
                            • Lisa Star
                              ... **this address doesn t work. ... ** Lisa Star ** LisaStar@earthling.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 7, 2001
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                                >From: Dan Smith <dansmith@...>
                                >Reply-To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                                >CC: ejk@...
                                >Subject: [elfscript] Re: Tengwar Parmaite font now available
                                >Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:51:48 -0500
                                >
                                > >Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:59:26 +0100
                                > >From: "Edward J. Kloczko" <ejk@...>
                                > >Anyone has a copy of the "Quettar" with the numerals?
                                >
                                >try here:
                                >"http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip" (75KB)

                                **this address doesn't work.

                                >It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the
                                >Beyond Bree (1984) articles on numerals.

                                ** Lisa Star
                                ** LisaStar@...
                                _________________________________________________________________
                                Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                              • Dan Smith
                                ... I just tried it and it worked for me. Perhaps geocities was having one of it s fits when you were trying to download it.
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 8, 2001
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                                  >>From: Dan Smith <dansmith@...>
                                  >>Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:51:48 -0500
                                  >>"http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/tengnum.zip" (75KB)
                                  >>It contains PDFs of both the Quettar (1987) and the
                                  >>Beyond Bree (1984) articles on numerals.
                                  >
                                  >Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:35:43 -0000
                                  >From: "Lisa Star" <amlug4@...>
                                  >**this address doesn't work.

                                  I just tried it and it worked for me.
                                  Perhaps geocities was having one of it's fits when
                                  you were trying to download it.
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