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A tehta/tengwa question

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  • DDanielA@webtv.net
    When writing the word _gwilwileth_ in tengwar, the first w would be written as a following w tehta (over twist, reversed tilde) above the anga or ungwe
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 9, 2002
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      When writing the word _gwilwileth_ in tengwar, the first 'w' would be
      written as a following 'w' tehta (over twist, reversed tilde) above the
      anga or ungwe (depending on the mode). My question is about the second
      'w'; would it be written as that tehta as well, or as a separate tengwa?
      When using a ómatehta mode, it would be awkward to have both the 'i'
      tehta and the following 'w' tehta above the lambe, but the attested
      tengwar rendering of _edwen_ in KLIII shows that a vowel tehta can share
      space with following 'w' above a tengwa even if it does appear rather
      clumsy. I know we lack an attested example of 'lw' in tengwar, but does
      anybody have an opinion?

      Cuio mae, Danny.
    • xeeniseit
      DDanielA@w... teithant:When writing the word _gwilwileth_ in tengwar, the first w would be w= ritten as a following w tehta (over twist, reversed
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 16, 2002
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        DDanielA@w... teithant:

        > When writing the word _gwilwileth_ in tengwar, the first 'w' would be > w=
        ritten as a following 'w' tehta (over twist, reversed tilde) above
        > the anga or ungwe (depending on the mode). My question is about the
        > second 'w'; would it be written as that tehta as well, or as a
        > separate tengwa? When using a ómatehta mode, it would be awkward to
        > have both the 'i' tehta and the following 'w' tehta above the lambe,
        > but the attested tengwar rendering of _edwen_ in KLIII shows that a
        > vowel tehta can share space with following 'w' above a tengwa even if
        > it does appear rather clumsy. I know we lack an attested example of
        > 'lw' in tengwar, but does anybody have an opinion?
        >
        > Cuio mae, Danny.

        I do. I think there are good reasons to write the _gwi_ in the word
        _gwilwileth_ with two tehtar on one tengwa but the _lwi_ with two
        tengwar and only one tehta. I suppose, it depends on the syllabic
        structure: two tengwar means that the first belows to the previous
        syllable, one tengwar and two tehtar means that there's only one
        syllable. We have evidence for this when we look at a lot of languages.
        There seems to be a preference for syllables with no consonants at the
        end, and many languages allow only very few consonants at the end of a
        syllable. Finnish for instance, which is similar to quenya, has only t,
        n, r, l, or s at the ends of syllables, Spanish lacks even the t, so
        does Italian. If it the l in _gwilwileth_ is such a special syllable
        ending consonant, we can syllable the word as gwil-wi-leth and write l
        and w with two tengwar, because they're not in the same syllable. The
        only language I know which allows _lw_ in the same syllable is French
        (in _loi_), but the w in these cases is said to form a group rather
        with the following vowel than with the l. But I know of different
        languages that have initial combinations which are similar to the _gw_
        in _gwilwileth_ or to the _dw_ in _edwen_(Spanish _guapo_, _duende_,
        English _queen_, _two_, German _quer_, _zwar_), so we can still write
        these words with two tehtar on one tengwa.

        btw, what about stating the following: if a languages allows most of
        its consonants at the ends of syllables, it is to be written with the
        tehtar on the following tengwar (English, Sindarin).

        What about writing combinations such as the above _gw_, _dw_, with the
        tengwa for the following w below the tengwa, considering the w a part
        of the consonant tengwa and not of the vowel? Are there attestations
        for that?

        suilaid
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