Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[elfscript] Re: Thoughts on Swedish (Scandinavian) vowels and tehtar.

Expand Messages
  • Mans Bjorkman
    ... No, it s still a phonemic mode -- no Swede would have difficulties comprehending far with the vowel having the same quality as the one in katt . What we
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 23, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Johan Winge wrote:

      > ...while these are pronounced _differently_ -- a is eg. _not_ the same
      > sound as a short a:.
      > fAr; kAtt a: ; a
      > hUs; kUlle u: ; u
      > bÅt; lÅng, lOppa å: ; å
      > lEta; dEtta, (mÄtt) e: ; e
      >
      > [ . . . ]
      >
      > A simpler approach may be to "only" use nine tehtar, as Angasule did; and
      > that is also the way I would advocate. There is no _problem_ with that,
      > apart from the loss of a truly phonemical tengwar mode.

      No, it's still a phonemic mode -- no Swede would have difficulties
      comprehending "far" with the vowel having the same quality as the one in
      "katt". What we loose is a truly *phonetic* mode, but we have few
      examples of that overall.


      > In the mode I've used for myself I have for "y" used the hook _/ or \_/
      > seen in LOTR (b_y_ the hobbits) and Letters 118 (ver_y_ happ_y_). I
      > wouldn't use the two under-dots, as Angasule suggested, since (1), I
      > personally dislike tehtar below the tengwar (silly reason, I know), and
      > (2), it is used for the consonant y in Quenya, i.e. I would read it as "j"
      > in Swedish.

      I prefer to represent _y_ by two dots written above the tengwar, just as
      they are used in the Sindarin mode of the final King's Letter. Swedish
      /y/ is more similar to Sindarin /y/ than its English counterpart (does
      it exist at all in English?).


      > Hitherto I have used a three-dot-tehta pointing downwards (a-nuquerna so to
      > say) or a v-like tehta for the "ä" sound, being inspired by An Introduction
      > to Elvish, but I have absolutely no problems with two overdots (¨). (That's
      > what Tolkien used in Lowdham's manuscript found in Sauron Defeated.)

      I too use the overturned a-tehta, because its usage for _ä_ (or _æ_) is
      fairly well attested in some Tengwar inscriptions published in _J.R.R.
      Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator_. Another reason not to use the English
      _y_ "hook" (or its chevron-like allograph) is its close similarity to
      the overturned a-tehta written rapidly.


      > Then there are "å" and "ö". Previously I have sometimes substituted "å:"
      > with "a:" and "å" with "o", if you see what I mean. For "ö" I have used "o"
      > with a dot below the tengwa, sort of umlaut. I don't like any of these
      > attempts though...

      I must admit I usually write _å_ with the _o_-curl, but this is just
      because I prefer to avoid non-attested usage. (Both /å/ and /o/ is
      pronounced [å] occasionally.) I know that many write _å_ as a doubled
      _a_, i.e. as two circumflexes connected to resemble an "M". This usage
      rymes well with how _å_ developed from long _a_ in the Nordic languages
      (the little circle in "å" is actually an "a" in origin).

      A friend of mine noted, not too long ago, that if _å_ is written as
      double _a_, and _y_ is written as double _i_ (as it were), then doubling
      of a tehta can be taken to represent *rounding* of a vowel in Swedish,
      and consequently _ö_ could be written as double _e_. Personally, though,
      I use the flipped tilde, just as Angasule.


      > One issue not being adressed is whether to place the tehta above the
      > preceding or following tengwa. I have always placed them above the
      > preceding one -- that's what I find most logical. Are you accustomed to
      > write in the other way?

      I always write them above the following tengwa, but it may not be the
      most logical choice. I think when I started writing with Tengwar in
      Swedish it felt more natural to follow the English custom, since the
      tengwar assignments mostly follow those of the English system.

      Suilaid,
      Måns


      --
      Måns Björkman "A grim morn,
      Törnby and a glad day,
      SE-179 75 Skå and a golden sunset!"
      Sweden ~Theoden
    • Mark A Miles
      johan winge wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/elfscript/?start=8 ... v) ... curl, or ... Interesting... This would
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 27, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        johan winge <johan.wing-@...> wrote:
        original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/elfscript/?start=8
        > To summarise:
        > a : Three dots pointing upwards or ^
        > e : Acute accent /
        > i : One dot .
        > o : Curl up open right /
        > u : Curl up open left / or \
        > y : Curl down open left _/
        > å : Not sure. Maybe curl down open right /_ or \_ ?
        > ä (æ) : Two over dots ¨ (or maybe three dots pointing downwards or
        v)
        > ö (ø) : Not sure. Maybe sort of a tilde '-, ex Angasule, or some
        curl, or
        > three dots or...

        Interesting... This would work for Danish too...!

        > One issue not being adressed is whether to place the tehta above the
        > preceding or following tengwa. I have always placed them above the
        > preceding one -- that's what I find most logical. Are you accustomed
        to
        > write in the other way?

        I'm a die-hard Quenya-speaker, so I actually have *always* (and
        sometimes to my detriment) written the other way round... ;)

        Mark A Miles
        Dept. of Scandinvian Studies
        University of Edinburgh
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.