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Re: [elfling] Yet another translation request

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  • DDanielA@webtv.net
    ... Unfortunately, we don t know the nominative form of you in Sindarin. We know the dative _le_ ( to you / to thee ), or it might be an oblique/objective
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 9, 2002
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      Teithant tynan-nels:
      >I was wondering if anyone could translate for
      >me...
      >english phrase: "you are my sun and moon"
      >I hope someone can help me out.

      Unfortunately, we don't know the nominative form of 'you' in Sindarin.
      We know the dative _le_ ('to you / to thee'), or it might be an
      oblique/objective form. As of last week, we also have the genitive form
      _lín_ ('your / thy'), presumably _lîn_ in LotR era Sindarin. The
      rest of your request is simple: '(are) my sun and my moon' = _Anor mîn
      ar Ithil mîn_. I'm sorry I couldn't provide you with the subject of
      your sentence.

      Cuio mae, Danny.
    • Carl F. Hostetter
      ... Huh? _Ae Adar Nín_ , and therefore the possessive/adjectival form _lín_, _is_ in LotR era Sindarin (at least, as much as any Sindarin text not
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 9, 2002
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        On 7/9/02 5:55 PM, "DDanielA@..." <DDanielA@...> wrote:

        > As of last week, we also have the genitive form
        > _lín_ ('your / thy'), presumably _lîn_ in LotR era Sindarin.

        Huh? "_Ae Adar Nín_", and therefore the possessive/adjectival form _lín_,
        _is_ in "LotR era Sindarin" (at least, as much as any Sindarin text not
        actually published in _LotR_ can be considered such), being written (most
        likely) some time in the 1950s.


        |======================================================================|
        | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
        | |
        | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
        | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
        | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
        | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
        | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
        |======================================================================|
      • DDanielA@webtv.net
        ... As you well know, Tolkien himself tells us that long vowels in stressed monosyllables are held longer than regular long vowels and are marked with a
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 9, 2002
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          Teithant Carl F. Hostetter:
          > <DDanielA@...> wrote:
          > >As of last week, we also have the genitive form
          > >_lín_ ('your / thy'), presumably _lîn_ in LotR era
          > > Sindarin.
          >Huh? "_Ae Adar Nín_", and therefore the possessive/
          >adjectival form _lín_, _is_ in "LotR era Sindarin" (at least,
          >as much as any Sindarin text not actually published in
          >_LotR_ can be considered such), being written (most likely)
          >some time in the 1950s.

          As you well know, Tolkien himself tells us that long vowels in stressed
          monosyllables are held longer than regular long vowels and are marked
          with a circumflex accent (cf. _în_ and _dîn_ in the King's Letter,
          among other examples). However, it really doesn't matter if it's to be
          written in tengwar; 'î' and 'í' are both written as long carrier +
          'i' tehta.

          Cuio mae, Danny.
        • Carl F. Hostetter
          ... I do indeed know this well. So you should realize that I wouldn t have asked my question if I thought this well-known fact had any relevancy to deciding
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 9, 2002
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            On 7/9/02 7:17 PM, "DDanielA@..." <DDanielA@...> wrote:

            > Teithant Carl F. Hostetter:
            >> <DDanielA@...> wrote:
            >>> As of last week, we also have the genitive form
            >>> _lín_ ('your / thy'), presumably _lîn_ in LotR era
            >>> Sindarin.
            >> Huh? "_Ae Adar Nín_", and therefore the possessive/
            >> adjectival form _lín_, _is_ in "LotR era Sindarin" (at least,
            >> as much as any Sindarin text not actually published in
            >> _LotR_ can be considered such), being written (most likely)
            >> some time in the 1950s.
            >
            > As you well know, Tolkien himself tells us that long vowels in stressed
            > monosyllables are held longer than regular long vowels and are marked
            > with a circumflex accent (cf. _în_ and _dîn_ in the King's Letter,
            > among other examples). However, it really doesn't matter if it's to be
            > written in tengwar; 'î' and 'í' are both written as long carrier +
            > 'i' tehta.

            I do indeed know this well. So you should realize that I wouldn't have asked
            my question if I thought this well-known fact had any relevancy to deciding
            that "_lín_" is _not_ "LotR era Sindarin". My puzzlement remains.


            |======================================================================|
            | Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org |
            | |
            | ho bios brachys, he de techne makre. |
            | Ars longa, vita brevis. |
            | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. |
            | "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take |
            | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." |
            |======================================================================|
          • bacevedo01
            Thank you for the help so a not as direct translation would be: dis amin le Anor min ar Ithil amin. Thanks for all the help. Ben ... Sindarin. ... form ... The
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 9, 2002
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              Thank you for the help

              so a not as direct translation would be:

              dis amin le Anor min ar Ithil amin.

              Thanks for all the help.

              Ben


              --- In elfscript@y..., DDanielA@w... wrote:
              > Teithant tynan-nels:
              > >I was wondering if anyone could translate for
              > >me...
              > >english phrase: "you are my sun and moon"
              > >I hope someone can help me out.
              >
              > Unfortunately, we don't know the nominative form of 'you' in
              Sindarin.
              > We know the dative _le_ ('to you / to thee'), or it might be an
              > oblique/objective form. As of last week, we also have the genitive
              form
              > _lín_ ('your / thy'), presumably _lîn_ in LotR era Sindarin.
              The
              > rest of your request is simple: '(are) my sun and my moon' = _Anor
              mîn
              > ar Ithil mîn_. I'm sorry I couldn't provide you with the subject
              of
              > your sentence.
              >
              > Cuio mae, Danny.
            • DDanielA@webtv.net
              ... dis amin le ... Well ... no. There is no Sindarin word _amin_ that I know of. What you have written is woman ? to thee my sun and moon ? ... it doesn t
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 9, 2002
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                Teithant tynan-nels:
                >so a not as direct translation would be:
                dis amin le
                >Anor min ar Ithil amin.

                Well ... no. There is no Sindarin word _amin_ that I know of. What you
                have written is 'woman ? to thee my sun and moon ?' ... it doesn't
                really make sense. The dative 2nd person singular pronoun does not work
                here. Also, you're not distinguishing between short and long vowels.

                Now if the person this is dedicated to has a name, the task is easier.
                For example. if her name is Katherine, you could write _Gwenneth Anar
                mîn ar Ithil mîn_ = 'Katherine is my sun and my moon' (or whatever
                you would choose to translate 'Katherine'). Maybe this helps?

                Cuio mae, Danny.
              • Gildor Inglorion
                teithant bacevedo01 ... oh no... amin and the words from that dictionary are not sindarin.. my sun and my moon is anor ah ithil niin in Sindarin since
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 10, 2002
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                  teithant bacevedo01

                  > Thank you for the help
                  >
                  > so a not as direct translation would be:
                  >
                  > dis amin le Anor min ar Ithil amin.

                  oh no... "amin" and the words from that dictionary are
                  not sindarin..

                  "my sun and my moon" is "anor ah ithil niin" in
                  Sindarin

                  since Daniel said we don't know how "you" is in
                  Sindarin, it would be enough if you gave us the name
                  of your lady... the result would be

                  "[name], anor ah ithil niin"

                  what do you think?

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                • laurifindil
                  ... is? IS! IS?! I know that English is not your mother tongue Mister Gildor but could you try _for once_ to say something like : might be , or I think it
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 10, 2002
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                    --- In elfscript@y..., Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
                    > teithant bacevedo01
                    >
                    > > Thank you for the help
                    > >
                    > > so a not as direct translation would be:
                    > >
                    > > dis amin le Anor min ar Ithil amin.
                    >
                    > oh no... "amin" and the words from that dictionary are
                    > not sindarin..
                    >
                    > "my sun and my moon" is "anor ah ithil niin" in
                    > Sindarin
                    >

                    is? IS! IS?!

                    I know that English is not your mother tongue Mister Gildor but could
                    you try _for once_ to say something like : "might be", or "I think it
                    could be".

                    Or maybe you have a Sindarin Grammar by Tolkien?

                    This List is not a "translation board", that is (most unfortunaltly)
                    the Elfling List (for some time yet).
                  • Gildor Inglorion
                    teithant laurifindil ... i think it could be :)) ... i have said many times might be but of course, everything we say here is just our personal oppinion and
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 10, 2002
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                      teithant laurifindil

                      > > "my sun and my moon" is "anor ah ithil niin" in
                      > > Sindarin
                      > >
                      >
                      > is? IS! IS?!

                      i think it could be :))

                      > I know that English is not your mother tongue Mister
                      > Gildor but could
                      > you try _for once_ to say something like : "might
                      > be", or "I think it
                      > could be".

                      i have said many times "might be" but of course,
                      everything we say here is just our personal oppinion
                      and point of view... and if someone disagrees he is
                      free to correct us, thats why we reply on the list and
                      not privately

                      (i hate being called mister, both seriously and
                      ironicaly :))

                      > Or maybe you have a Sindarin Grammar by Tolkien?

                      no i have one by Pengolodh :))

                      > This List is not a "translation board", that is
                      > (most unfortunaltly)
                      > the Elfling List (for some time yet).

                      i just offer the help i was offered when i was new
                      here :/

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                    • laurifindil
                      ... Help? I do not find that we have the same definition of help or helpfull , Gildor. Like it or not! You tend to ignore what you (and me) we do not know
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 11, 2002
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                        --- In elfscript@y..., Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
                        > teithant laurifindil
                        >
                        > > > "my sun and my moon" is "anor ah ithil niin" in
                        > > > Sindarin
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > is? IS! IS?!
                        >
                        > i think it could be :))
                        >
                        > > I know that English is not your mother tongue Mister
                        > > Gildor but could
                        > > you try _for once_ to say something like : "might
                        > > be", or "I think it
                        > > could be".
                        >
                        > i have said many times "might be" but of course,
                        > everything we say here is just our personal oppinion
                        > and point of view... and if someone disagrees he is
                        > free to correct us, thats why we reply on the list and
                        > not privately
                        >
                        > (i hate being called mister, both seriously and
                        > ironicaly :))
                        >
                        > > Or maybe you have a Sindarin Grammar by Tolkien?
                        >
                        > no i have one by Pengolodh :))
                        >
                        > > This List is not a "translation board", that is
                        > > (most unfortunaltly)
                        > > the Elfling List (for some time yet).
                        >
                        > i just offer the help i was offered when i was new
                        > here :/

                        Help?

                        I do not find that we have the same definition of "help" or
                        "helpfull", Gildor.

                        Like it or not!
                        You tend to ignore what you (and me) we do not know much about Elvish.

                        Don't forget : "could, might, I think that, maybe, etc."
                      • Gildor Inglorion
                        teithant laurifindil ... but it s the definition of those who seek it... ... trust me, i don t... ... i ve already replied to this subject
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jul 11, 2002
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                          teithant laurifindil

                          > Help?
                          >
                          > I do not find that we have the same definition of
                          > "help" or
                          > "helpfull", Gildor.

                          but it's the definition of those who seek it...

                          > Like it or not!
                          > You tend to ignore what you (and me) we do not know
                          > much about Elvish.

                          trust me, i don't...

                          > Don't forget : "could, might, I think that, maybe,
                          > etc."

                          i've already replied to this subject

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