886Re: A question about Artist & Illustrator
- May 11 9:33 AMAiya lambendili !
I'd like to thank Mr. Arden R. Smith for his very clear and comprehensive
answer to my question and for his very useful comments !
Thank's also to John Cowan, Michael Everson and Gildir for their comments.
I wrote :
>> I noticed what seemed to me a typo in "Artist and Illustrator" by W.Arden R. Smith wrote :
>> Hammond and C. Scull (p. 72, note 67 mentions a tree labeled in tengwar
>> "ald orné").
>> Searching in the TolkLang archive, I found that this error has been
>> already pointed by Lisa Star (in her post of the 3 Feb 1997), but I
>> haven't been able to find a definitive reply. The only one I found was
>> from Arden R. Smith (4 Feb 1997), but he only says that "the reading
>> should indeed have been _alda orne_".
>> Has the Editorial Team or someone else seen the original tengwar
>> inscription or did W.. Hammond or C. Scull given a definitive reply ?
> Wayne and Christina have in fact listed this correction in theirI live in France and all the interesting specialized publications are not
> "Corrigenda to _J. R. R. Tolkien: Artist & Illustrator_" in _The
> Tolkien Collector_ #15 (February 1997), p. 19.
always available here, nor is it easy to be aware of this kind of
> I have seen the tengwar inscription in question, though it was notOK.
> until after _Artist & Illustrator_ had already been published. That
> _orné_ should have been read as _orne_ is clear: the e-tehta is
> above _nuumen_ and is neither doubled nor placed above a long
> carrier. The reading of _alda_ rather than _ald_, on the other hand,
> rests entirely on a knowledge of Quenya vocabulary, since the a-tehta
> is not used at all in this inscription. The word could be read as
> _ald_, _alad_, _alada_, or _alda_, if it were not for the fact that
> the first three are not Quenya words.
> The inscription uses the letters _lambe_ and _ando_ rather than the letterBut *_aland_ or more probably _alanda_ could be possible as well, since the
> _alda_, and given the usual Quenya value of _ando_, the word could be
> interpreted as _aland_ or _alanda_, as well. The word _alanda_ in fact
> appears (without a gloss) in the Qenya Lexicon (PE12:30), but given that
> the inscription in question is used as a caption under a drawing of a
> tree, _alda_ seems to be a more likely reading than _alanda_.
drawing and the inscription seem to date from the late 20's.
Are there any clues for a precise datation of them ? A&I speaks about the
preceeding drawingw that are form july and august 1928, but the drawing that
interests us seems to have been made on a separate sheet, probably later
than the last drawings in the Book of Ishness.
Does someone know if the letter _alda_ was already in existence at this
stage of Tolkien's linguistics (late 20's) ? I'm most interested in the
languages (especially Quenya), but, alas, I'm not a specialist in the
More, _alanda_ appears indeed unglossed on p. 30 of the QL, but it is
glossed "wide" on p. 34 (and so it in the "Poetic & Mythologic Words of
Eldarissa") and "broad, wide" on p. 51(from stem LARA, with a diacritic on
the 'r') !
> However, I won't discount the possibility that _alanda_ *might* beI am most inclined to interpret the inscription as *_alanda orne_, with the
> the correct reading, meaning something like "growing," "thriving," or
> "blessed"; cf. the derivatives of GALA- in Etym. (V:357).
probable meaning *"wide tree", since _alda orne_ *"tree tree" would seem
very odd !
I'd like very much to see how the tree looks like on the drawing... Can you
please help, Mr. Smith ?
> I should add that the second word in the inscription cannot beTo me, the fact that no point is placed under _lambe_ (nor under _ando_) in
> interpreted as _orane_, since _óre_ is used instead of _rómen_, and
> especially because a dot was placed under the _óre_, indicating that
> no vowel follows the _r_. A dot was not placed under the _lambe_,
> though we should perhaps also expect one there.
the first word points also toward an interpretation of it as _alanda_ and
> The most curious thing about this inscription is in theVery interesting indeed !
> representation of the initial vowels. These are represented by full
> letters rather than by tehtar above short carriers. The initial _a_
> of _alda_ is represented by the letter _vilya_ and the initial _o_ of
> _orne_ by _úre_. These letters appear with these values in the full
> mode for English seen in inscriptions like the _Errantry_ and _Tom
> Bombadil_ calligraphy (_Pictures_ 48), but nowhere else have I seen
> vowel tengwar and vowel tehtar combined in this way.
Gildir wrote :
> By the way: the originating TolkLang message (and subsequentI only have the french edition of A&I, and I wasn't sure about the page
> messages) refers to AI page 72 note 67. It's page 67, note 72.
number, so I gave the (erroneous) one given in Lisa Star's message on
TolkLang... Sorry !
Thank you again for your answer Mr. Smith !
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