73Re: [elfscript] re: : Used At All?
- Sep 28, 2000Dan Smith wrote (in http://www.geocities.com/fontwizard/elfscript1.pdf):
> >Mans Bjorkman <mansb@...> writes:Note, though, that in Tolkien's version the "tail" is actually at the
> >Near the bottom of the Tengwar table in Appendix E to _The Lord of the Rings_, there is an odd-looking
> >tengwa which resembles a "d" with a tail. The text names it _hwesta sindarinwa_, "Grey-elven _hw_". The
> >tengwa was "mostly used (if at all) for voiceless _w_ (_hw_)".
> It looks like this [...]
baseline, not below it: the stem has just the same height as that of
<hwesta>, and the tail is attached to its lower end.
> I am also not sure what you mean by a closed bow to the left.It is clear my wording left much to be desired. As I wrote in my
> They look like their top most curl is open on the left.
response to Johan Winge, "What I meant was that in DTS 17, the tengwa in
question resembles a "rómen nuquerna"; in DTS 18 it resembles a cursive
"2", as exemplified in line 13." The former can certainly be said to
have a closed bow. There is also, as you say, a "lambe nuquerna" (two
allographs) that represents /w/.
> I am not entirely sure that I agree with you. I do remember readingCertainly, but IMHO it would make more sense if the character developed
> somewhere that romen is an 'evolved' form of ore. But likewise, it
> could be reasoned that the HW character might also be an 'evolved' for
> of anna.
from one with the same, or a similar, meaning (as <óre> > <rómen>, <aha>
> <hyarmen>).Actually, if my theory is correct, the <rómen nuquerna> is really a
*secondary* development of <hwesta sindarinwa>. Written quickly, the
<hwesta sindarinwa> would easily end up as the letter in DTS 18 and 37.
After the similarity with a turned <rómen> was noted by the users, it
would then be re-shaped (in the 'pointed' style, but apparently nowhere
else) to resemble that character more closely. This imagined chain of
events would in its complexity be a weakness to my theory, if it weren't
that the <rómen nuquerna> in DTS 17 has such a clear correspondance to
the WH-tengwa in DTS 18.
> I've always thought that 'hwesta sindarinwa' was a combination ofThat may indeed be a possibility, though the name of the tengwa makes me
> 'ure' (W) and 'halla' (H):
believe rather that it developed from <hwesta>.
Johan Winge wrote:
> 2d, which isn't on the picture, is the "cursive L" in DTS 37; the only
> difference between this and 2c is basically that the upper (open) bow is
> much smaller and turns to the right and not to the left, if you see what I
> mean. I'm prety confident that this is only a result of the different styles.
> The difference between 2b and 2c is disturbing though. Maybe TolkienWell, we must keep another thing in mind here: the _Errantry_ and _Tom
> couldn't make up his mind, or he simply forgot how he had wroten it before
> when he came to line 19. But still, why wouldn't he close the bow in 2b if
> it really was a hewsta sindarinwa? But then again, why on earth would he
> use a different tengwa in "where" and "whither"?! Maybe they are the same
> tengwa but _not_ hwesta sindarinwa? (Note how 2b looks like a mirrored
> hyarmen. Hmmm...)
Bombadil_ inscriptions were written *early* in Tolkien's life. The
_Errantry_ inscription corresponds closely to the versions Tolkien wrote
in the early 1930's (see HME 7 pp 84 ff), and based on the Tengwar mode
used it is reasonable to assume the _Tom Bombadil_ inscriptions are
At this time, Tolkien's ideas on the writing system may still have been
in a state of flux. It would surprise me if he had already then worked
out the history of the letters as we know it today.
Actually, from a *superfictional* perspective, I think the HW-tengwa
seen here is the *origins* of what was to become <hwesta sindarinwa> in
LR, not a development from it. Seen from *within* the subcreation, I of
course have to explain it the other way around.
Måns Björkman "Mun þu mik!
Störtloppsvägen 8, III Man þik.
SE-129 46 Hägersten Un þu mer!
Sweden An þer."
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