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58Re: [elfscript] Return of the ElfScribes

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  • Mans Bjorkman
    Sep 18, 2000
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      Angasule wrote (>) in reply to me (> >):

      > > The only tables with Cirth -- as Tolkien finally conceived them -- are
      > > in The Return of the King, appendix E. The tables in _TI_ shows some
      > > earlier sketches on the same system, but they are very dissimilar from
      > > the final result.
      > Ah, I always found it rather confusing there, maybe I should return to
      > it, I unfortunately lent my copy of The Lord of the Rings (yes, stupid
      > thing to do, I know!!!), so I'll have to wait.

      Lisa Star has pointed out that she uses the runes in TI for the
      languages in Tolkien's creation that are contemporary with them. That is
      fine, of course, and illustrates that one can perceive the subcreation
      in two different ways: either as multiple layers of writings from
      different periods of Tolkien's life, where each layer is worth studying
      in its own right; or as a single, unified body of divergent texts --
      where newer texts contradict with older ones, they are usually closer to
      the "truth". Both views must be held equally valid, though I confess
      myself to the latter.


      > > Appendix E claims that "Among the Eldar the Alphabet of Daeron did not
      > > develop true cursive forms", but leaves it open if it did among the
      > > Dwarves of Moria. Somewhere (I don't have the reference at hand) it says
      > > that Certhas Daeron was used to record the wars with Morgoth, most
      > > likely in the Grey Annals.

      Here is the reference. _The War of the Jewels_, "The Grey Annals" §31:
      "Of the long years of peace that followed after the coming of Denethor
      there is little tale; for though in this time Dairon the minstrel, it is
      said, who was the chief loremaster of the kingdom of Thingol, deviced
      his Runes*, [_added later in margin_: Cirth] they were little used by
      the Sindar for the keeping of records, until the days of the War [...]"

      The footnote reads: "* These, it is said, he contrived first ere the
      building of Menegroth, and after bettered them. The Naugrim, indeed,
      that came to Thingol learned the Runes of Dairon, and were well-pleased
      with the device, esteeming Dairon's skill higher than did the Sindar,
      his own folk; and by the Naugrim they [_later_ > the Cirth] were taken
      east over the mountains and passed into the knowledge of many peoples."


      > Yes, probably the dwarves, then, although I don't recall the book of
      > Mazarbul as having cursive certar? (I only gave a short look to it, with
      > orcs and the balrog behind me! [aka store clerks closing down!])

      Correct; the Book of Mazarbul contains regular, "straight" runes. The
      only "cursive" runes of Tolkien I'm aware of are in the tables in TI, in
      fact.

      I assume it was _Pictures by J.R.R. Tolkien_ you looked in? If so, you
      really should get hold of it, since it is no longer in print! (_Artist
      and Illustrator_ only contains one of the pages, and a sketch of
      another.)


      > > There is no Swedish Tolkien Society, but several regional societies.
      > > Gothenburg has a society called Mithlond, the society of Malmö is called
      > > Angmar, Uppsala has Cerin Erain (actually a fief of the Forodrim) etc.
      > I'd be interested in the way they work (statutes and all), I'll look
      > for them next time I'm online.

      They all linked from the homepage of the Forodrim
      (http://www.forodrim.org), though Cerin Erain has no home page.

      The reason for my haste last time was that I was on my way to a
      fall-celebration in Mithlond (Gothenburg is a six-hour drive away from
      Stockholm). These last four days I have feasted together with people
      from all the societies mentioned above, as well as from the Danish
      society Bri (danicised form of Bree) and the Norwegian Arthedain. All in
      all, about 110 people. It was great fun!


      Suilaid an Seryn Tîw a Cirth,
      Måns


      --
      Måns Björkman "Mun þu mik!
      Störtloppsvägen 8, III Man þik.
      SE-129 46 Hägersten Un þu mer!
      Sweden An þer."
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