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5090Re: Happy New Year Elf Script v3

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  • j_mach_wust
    Dec 31, 2005
      David "Daeron" Finnamore wrote:
      > OK, v3 is up but I forgot to check "send message." It's at

      First of all, what I'm most uncomfortable with is that you still are
      using yanta and úre for following -i/-y and -u/-w, while Tolkien has
      used anna and vala.

      > I stuck w Kyrmse's vowel system, including for the indefinite
      > article. Even though it's now more traditional spelling than
      > phonemic,

      I really don't think that your transcription is more traditional
      spelling. The difference between phonemic and traditional spelling is
      after all in the representation of the vowels, whereas the
      representation of the consonants is more or less the same in either
      mode (except for instance the silent "gh"). Now you have represented
      the word "may" all phonemically as if it were "mej", that is to say,
      no "a" at all, but rather according to pronunciation with "ej", just
      as J. R. R. Tolkien did in his phonemic transcription of the word
      "praise" which he transcribed as "prejz".

      > I followed your example, j. mach (is that what I should
      > call you?),


      > and dropped the under dots for following silent e's.
      > That makes more sense when the rest of your vowels lie on following
      > consonants, I think. I added an under dot for the "er" in greater,
      > deciding that that was closer to Kyrmse's meaning for situations
      > like that (than a long carrier carrying nothing preceding óre).

      Actually, I think that J. R. R. Tolkien used óre rather like a vowel
      letter, that is to say, with no preceding vowel tehta at all,
      especially no dots underneath. In the unstressed word "for", he used
      no tehta at all. Consequently, the unstressed syllable "er" within the
      word "greater" wouldn't require any vowel tehta (dot below) either.

      > Again, because this is traditional English spelling mode, I kept the
      > w (vilya instead of úre now) in "write" to distinguish it from
      > "right" and "rite." I dropped the silent "gh" but I wonder now
      > whether they should be kept to distinguish "right" from "rite."

      Since I rather think, because of the vowel representations you've
      chosen, that this is a phonemic spelling mode and not a traditional
      spelling mode, I'd rather recommend you note to write any "w" in
      "write" since you don't pronounce it different from "rite" (ore "right").

      > The dbl under dots in the word "new" were a revelation. I knew
      > something should indicate the "y" sound that trained English
      > speakers put in "new" (most Americans pronounce "new" and "gnu" the
      > same) but I didn't know what.

      This is a difference between dialects of English. I consider (but this
      is only my personal opinion!) that you don't need to put any "j" where
      you don't pronounce them. My own pronunciation of English is rather
      influenced by the British pronunciation (since I live in Europe), so
      I'd put a "j" in my phonemic transcription of "njuu", but since you
      seem to live in the States and consequently don't pronounce any "j" in
      your pronunciation of "nuu" I think it's all right if you don't use
      any dots below; be aware that this is only my personal opinion; I know
      neither of any Tolkien texts this could be based on nor of any Tolkien
      texts that would prove this wrong; we just can't decide.

      j. 'mach' wust
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