Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

2990Re: help needed.. please? :)

Expand Messages
  • Calwen Rudh
    Dec 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Idril,

      I'd suggest this translation although I think it would be better if
      you do this yourself - this was not "so hard":
      _Derich i 'orf niin, i 'lass niin, i naeg niin_
      "[You] remain the vigor my, the joy my, the pain my"

      Vocabulary:
      *derich -- "[you] remain": 2 ps sg, stem _dar-_, the pronominal
      ending (assumed): _-ich_, the _-i-_ in this ending causes umlaut in
      the previous syllable and changes A to E
      *i 'orf niin -- "the vigour my": Sindarin puts the adjectives and
      pronouns after the noun; _i_ is the singular definite article that
      causes lenition of the initial letter of the following noun and
      changes G (from original _gorf_ "vigor") to zero that is represented
      by an apostrophe (though _i 'orf_ "the vigor"); the double vowel _i_
      in _niin_ supposes to mean long vowel (_i_ with an accent), I dare
      not to put this character in the computer although we have this
      letter in my native tongue :o) for it can cause some problems.
      *i 'lass niin -- "the joy my": for the lenition, see the previous
      explanation; the original is _glass_ "joy", which is I think better
      than "desire" - BTW we don't have this latter word given by Tolkien
      either
      *i naeg niin -- "the pain my": the letter N is not seen to undergo
      lenition, so it remains the same even after the definite article

      I've chosen to use definite articles since I guess the given nouns
      are not definite enough without them. Remember that the F in _i 'orf_
      is pronounced as V since it's at the end of the word (that's why it's
      transcribed with ampa, not formen).

      That's it for the translation into Sindarin. Be aware that mainly the
      verb is not sure since the ending for singular "you" is not attested,
      only assumed. And even this translation may be found as wrong for
      others reading it.

      Now the transcription:

      If you want to transcribe this in Beleriand mode, then write:
      ×ando - yanta - romen - short carrier - harma× for _DERICH_
      ×short carrier - SPACE - anca (or nothing)* - anna - romen - ampa×
      for _I 'ORF_
      ×ore - short carrier with andaith (accent) above it - ore× for _NIIN_
      ×short carrier - SPACE - anca (or nothing)* - lambe - aze/esse/are
      (all of this is one letter but it has three names)× for _I 'LASS_,
      add the third row for _NIIN_
      ×short carrier - SPACE - ore - A letter (looks like small Roman _c_) -
      yanta - anga× (OR the diphthong AE could be written as A letter and
      a circumflex-like sign above it) for _I NAEG_ -- don't forget to add
      _NIIN_ at the end
      -------
      *some guys recommend to use no letter instead of the apostrophe
      because we don't know what is its value in Tengwar but I recommend to
      note this loss of a consonant down by anca that was once _gh_ sound
      that later disappeared and is written with the apostrophe "nowadays".
      The loss of a consonant process is described as gh -> 3 -> 0 (_'_),
      so my recommendation has its reason. The problem begins with the
      fact that we have no evidence of usage of this letter/these letters
      given by Tolkien.
      -------

      If you want the tehta mode, it is more complicated: there is no sure
      instruction how to write in Sindarin tehta mode, we have nothing but
      Tehta mode for Gondor. However, I believe there is a Sindarin tehta
      mode - I will show you both so you can choose:

      1) Sindarin tehta mode:
      DERICH: ando - romen with E-tehta above it - harma with I-tehta over
      it
      I 'ORF NIIN: anca with I-tehta over it - romen with O-tehta over it -
      ampa SPACE numen - long carrier - numen
      I 'LASS NIIN: anca with I-tehta above it - lambe - aze nuquerna with
      A-tehta over it SPACE numen - long carrier - numen
      I NAEG NIIN: numen with I-tehta above it - yanta with A-tehta above
      it - anga SPACE numen - long carrier - numen

      2) Tehta mode for Gondor:
      DERICH: ando - romen with E-tehta above it - hwesta with I-tehta over
      it
      I 'ORF NIIN: unque with I-tehta over it - romen with O-tehta over it -
      ampa SPACE numen - long carrier - numen
      I 'LASS NIIN: unque with I-tehta above it - lambe - aze nuquerna with
      A-tehta over it SPACE numen - long carrier - numen
      I NAEG NIIN: numen with I-tehta above it - yanta with A-tehta above
      it - ungwe SPACE numen - long carrier - numen

      For commas between the nouns you can use ALT0136 (tripple dot) when
      typing in Daniel Smith's fonts or leave the nouns as they are, just
      separated by spaces.

      I can transcribe this for you and prepare .gif pictures but it would
      take a day since I have the Photoshop magic program at home. So I can
      send the pictures later if you're interested.

      Hope I helped.
      Lucy
    • Show all 16 messages in this topic