225Re: [elfscript] precise rules for writing quenya with tengwar
- Apr 16, 2001DDanielA@... wrote:
>Quite true. However, I strongly believe <halla> was, at least, a valid
> Well, there are bound to be differences of opinion until more of JRRT's
> tengwar specimens surface. Here's where my opinions differ from the ones
> Jeremie presented.
> Halla: We have no clear-cut rule. Professor Tolkien's only reference to
> the 'halla' suggests that it might not have survived into later Quenya
> in any rôle. His use of the word 'original' is vague. It's possible
> that 'hr' and 'hl' were written 'hyarmen rómen' and 'hyarmen lambe' in
> the Third Age. It's possible that there were other alternatives. We
> don't know.
alternative still in the Third Age. The footnote says: "... [halla]
could be placed before a consonant to indicate that it was unvoiced and
breathed; voiceless _r_ and _l_ were usually so expressed and are
transcribed _hr_, _hl_." I can only interpret this as saying that some
of Tolkien's sources actually used <halla> + r/l, which in The Lord of
the Rings is transcribed _hr_, _hl_.
> Personally, I doubt the validity of using 'rómen nuquerna'I agree. There is no support for this whatsoever in the sources.
> and 'lambe nuquerna' as I've seen some do to represent 'hr' and 'hl'.
> Hyarmen: For any word initially? Not so! We have Professor Tolkien's own"No. 11 was called _harma_ when it represented the spirant _ch_ in all
> statement that 'harma' sometimes represented an 'h' initially and was
> then called 'aha'. The initial 'h' in the word 'harma' was, in fact, a
> 'harma' (or, rather 'aha', but of course it's the same tengwa!), not
positions, but when this sound became breath _h_ initially (though
remaining medially) the name _aha_ was devised."
1) <harma> first represented [x] in all positions. The letter was
2) [x] became [h] initially. From this follows that the pronounciation
3) <harma> was renamed <aha>, pronounced [axa]. The name change was
obviously made to retain the pronounciation [x] of the letter.
> Thúle: For 'th'? In Quenya? Mature Quenya did not possess the 'th'"TH ... had become _s_ in spoken Quenya, though still written with a
different letter". QED.
> Noldo: Professor Tolkien himself tells us that 'ñoldo' can occurAs far as I know, all he says is that the letter combination NG occurs
medially, and that the sound of _sing_ "also occurred initally in
Quenya, but has been transcribed _n_ (as in _Noldo_), according to the
pronounciation of the Third Age."
> A tilde over a tengwa: I was under the impression that the nasal signNo, all nasals are covered in the conventional Quenya mode.
> was originally used in Sindarin because all 'nasal + consonant'
> combinations possible in Quenya were written with single tengwar. Does
> anyone know of a Quenya word that would use a nasal sign?
> There is one final vagary: 'anna'. We know that 'anna' must beIn the short text "Noldorin words for Language" (Vinyar Tengwar #39) p.
> accompanied by two under-imposed dots to represent the sound 'y' ( or
> IPA [j]), and that 'anna' alone must have a rôle of a carrier of
> sorts. Måns uses 'anna' + accent tehta as the first letter of the word
> 'ëar' in his calligraphy rendition of the Markirya Boat Poem (btw, a
> beautifully rendered manuscript, Måns!), but is this attested, or
> simply used to avoid writing two short carriers together? Do we have any
> information about the use of 'anna' without the dots? Apparently the
> word 'anna' begins with the tengwa of that name.
17, we learn that <anna> originally represented , i.e. a spirant _g_
-- a sound that had, in fact, vanished from the language in Feanor's
time. Although this is entirely unattested, one could therefore
theoretically use <anna> in positions where this sound occurred earlier.
That is the way I use it in my _Markirya_ rendition: _ear_ derives from
earlier *_gayar_ (Tolkien changed his mind several times about the
etymology of this word, but see The Peoples of Middle-earth, "The
Shibboleth of Fëanor" note 45). Having said this, it *is* nice to be
able to avoid consecutive vowel-carriers! :-)
Måns Björkman "Mun þu mik!
Störtloppsvägen 8, III Man þik.
SE-129 46 Hägersten Un þu mer!
Sweden http://hem.passagen.se/mansb An þer."
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