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2078Re: [elfscript]: consonantal y in "full" Sindarin

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  • xeeniseit
    May 8, 2003
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      Gildor Inglorion teithant:
      > he then adapted Quenya to them, but the adaptation was not perfect
      (not as sindarin or westron) because of Quenya's strict rules

      Suppose you mean King's Letter Sindarin, as Moria Gate Sindarin
      doesn't even have consistent tyeller. Which Quenya has (except for
      óretyelle, but that's the case in most modes). It only changes the
      meaning of the lúvar, but the change is more or less regular: A
      doubled lúva means (pre)nasalisation.

      xeeniseit teithant:
      >> And if yanta is a modification of anna (of what other tengwa could
      it be a modification?), we can assume that in the very original mode
      we unfortunately don't know of, anna would represent a consonantal y-

      Gildor Inglorion teithant:
      > no, yanta and anna have no relation.. my theory is that yanta was
      used as consonantal y while anna was used for a carrier and/or to
      show early-lost initial g- sound (eg. alda from galada or alasse from

      The appendices say that all additional letters but lambe and silme
      are modifications of another tengwa. What other tengwa could be the
      model for yanta, if it's not anna?

      Assuming that the appendices are right, and assuming that yanta is
      really developped out of anna, then we have to ask: why? There is a
      certain similarity between g-sounds and y-sounds, cf. "yesterday" to
      German "gestern" (yesterday) and "Tag" (day). But Quenya didn't have
      the development *g>y but *g>*gh>(zero). I don't know a lot about the
      historical phonology of Quenya, but it seems very unlikely to me to
      assume *g>*y>(zero), because Third Age Quenya has y-sounds in the
      same environments where that loss would have taken place.

      Why then? Perhaps: Anna is the very original sign for the y-
      consonant, yanta has developped from it, because there was a need for
      a special sign for the -i in diphtongs.

      But if anna was the very original sign for the y-consonant, the
      original value of calmatéma couldn't be that of a velar series, but
      rather of some kind of palatal series. Quenya has such a series, but
      it uses calmatéma with two underposed dots for it. Do we have to
      assume that Feanor originally designed a wholly different témar
      distribution? Or is it more likely that the original tengwar mode was
      designed for the English language, not by Feanor but rather by J.R.R.

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