Re: [elfling-d] Re: Moderatorial bias/hypocrisy/inconsistency on Elfling
Friday, May 23, 2003, 3:28:44 PM, Carl F . Hostetter wrote:
CFH> Perhaps one of the Elfling moderators could explain why it is that
CFH> Patrick Wynne, who has been a member of Elfling for many years now, and
CFH> to my knowledge has never violated the list guidelines as constructed
CFH> by David Salo himself (<http://www.yarinareth.net/David/elfling.html>),
CFH> is still subject to prior approval of posting?
Browsing through the Elfling message base one can learn that Patrick
was evidently graylisted immediately after Dorothea Salo's
announcement of the graylisting policy. Though he hadn't written
anything for five months (thus there being no possibility of him
violating list guidelines), his first message in February 2002 was
Namaarie! S.Y., Elenhil Laiquendo
: ilqua mi ambar cenin enyalta · wende i ea nin melya laa malta :
- On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 09:14 AM, Boris Shapiro wrote:
> Browsing through the Elfling message base one can learn that PatrickIndeed, but this doesn't explain why Pat is _still_ subject to prior
> was evidently graylisted immediately after Dorothea Salo's
> announcement of the graylisting policy.
approval. (Indeed, it raises yet another specter of hypocrisy: What had
Pat ever posted that in any way justified his being "graylisted" in the
first place?) According to the current Elfling guidelines (again, as
constructed by David Salo himself), there is no longer any policy of
"graylisting"; and yet, Pat continues to be subject to prior approval.
I ask again: Why?
- At 5/23/03 04:28 AM , Carl F. Hostetter wrote:
>Perhaps one of the Elfling moderators could explain why it is thatThat's been on my mind for the past couple of days, as well. As you might
>Patrick Wynne, who has been a member of Elfling for many years now, and
>to my knowledge has never violated the list guidelines as constructed
>by David Salo himself (<http://www.yarinareth.net/David/elfling.html>),
>is still subject to prior approval of posting?
guess, I don't really spend time going through the Elfling subscriber list
checking to see who's on moderation and who isn't -- with over 2000
subscribers, that would represent a substantial time-sink! So I only notice
if someone's on moderation when they send in a message, which Patrick
When his message came through a few days ago, I thought, "That's funny. Why
is he on moderated status?"
>Are we really supposed to believe that there is no bias or hypocrisyYour hyperbole is amusing, but still hyperbole. I can't imagine Patrick's
>reflected in the fact that when applied to Pat, "eventually" is, thus
>far, an open-ended interval that has already spanned years (and will
>extend, by all appearances, to the heat death of the universe)
graylisting will last past the year 2150 or so. :)
>while for everyone else it seems to be a matter of a few weeks at most?In actual practice, the specific time before someone gets off moderation
varies a bit. It essentially comes down to: When does some moderator go
"Hey, this person doesn't need to be moderated any more."? Which varies
depending on things like how rushed and/or alert the moderators are, how
literate and level-headed the person's posts are, and *how often we see
their name* on the "Should this message be allowed through?" screen.
As a general scale, when Thomas Ferencz started posting as "amanibhavam"
instead of his previous address, I think it took somewhere from eight weeks
to three months before we finally whitelisted that address. And Thomas is a
known-good poster, already approved from his previous address -- and he
posts fairly frequently. The process is much slower than "a few weeks at
most" -- please note that the word used in the admin guidelines,
"eventually", is pretty vague. So is the time scale for whitelisting. (In
actual fact, though not necessarily by design.)
"Before you slip into unconsciousness,
I'd like to have another kiss,
Another flashing chance at bliss..."
"The Crystal Ship"
- On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 03:43 PM, Kai MacTane wrote:
> Your hyperbole is amusing, but still hyperbole. I can't imagineLOL!
> Patrick's graylisting will last past the year 2150 or so. :)
Thanks for shedding some more light on the situation.
- I would like to ask another couple of questions of the Elfling
moderators: 1) have any of Helge's postings _ever_ been moderated back
to him, and 2) has he _ever_ been issued a warning, public or private,
regarding the tone and contents of his posts?
- At 5/23/03 02:50 PM , Carl F. Hostetter wrote:
>I would like to ask another couple of questions of the ElflingNaturally, I cannot speak for any other moderator. Unfortunately, I cannot
>moderators: 1) have any of Helge's postings _ever_ been moderated back
>to him, and 2) has he _ever_ been issued a warning, public or private,
>regarding the tone and contents of his posts?
say with any certainty for myself, either. I perform such activities via
Yahoo! Groups' web interface, and it doesn't keep track of sufficiently
detailed information. (Having gone back and checked, I can see things like
"3/24/2003 9:26 pm Rejected post #8974 via web by kmactane
<kmactane@...>", but that gives me no information about who sent
Also, the number doesn't match up with the message numbers of actual,
posted messages -- my suspicion is that these numbers only count messages
which were subject to moderation, and messages from whitelisted members
simply fly through and don't add to this count. For sure, the actual
message #8974 was posted back in January of 2002, around when I was first
subscribing to Elfling.
And my own memory is not sufficient. I approve anywhere up to two dozen
messages a day, and rejection numbers vary wildly, depending on how many
people are asking questions that are answered in the FAQ in any given week.
I'd love to be able to say, "Why yes, I told Helge back on March 22nd that
his phrasing about such-and-so was a little overboard, and could he please
tone it down." But all I can honestly say is, I have no recollection.
"I think that somehow/Somewhere inside of us,
We must be similar/If not the same."
"Left of Center"