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"Elvish names" vs scholarship

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  • Boris Shapiro
    Aiya! What results from usual requests for an elvish name on Elfling... ... Erucolindo wrote: cjc Noelle, I would still go with God
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 30, 2002
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      Aiya!

      What results from usual requests for an elvish name on Elfling...

      Noelle <queenoelle@...> wrote:

      > anyway... about that "my name in elvish" thing... (hey, I'm
      > entitled) I have the evil untranslatable(sp?) name of Noelle.
      ...
      > wow. I was sqinting through name books and Quenya wordlists all last
      > night and came up with nearly the same, (but with probably more
      > work..) _Erunostarл_ it is then... :)

      Jerome Colburn <jcolburn@...> wrote:

      > _Hristonostarл_ would be more exact. Though Christ is not mentioned
      > in Tolkien's Secondary World, Tolkien didn't let that stop him from
      > translating Catholic prayers into Quenya and Sindarin; as a result,
      > we get _Hristo_ for Christ in the Litany of Loreto, published in
      > VT44:12, line 13.

      Erucolindo <cclineavia3@...> wrote:

      cjc> Noelle, I would still go with God (Eru) instead of Hristo
      cjc> (Christ) since no matter what Tolkein translated into Quenya and
      cjc> Sindarin, there is still no "Christ" in Lord of the Rings. There
      cjc> are as I have said however, "Gods".
      cjc> Anyway, I personally think that Erunostare or Erunostarel sounds
      cjc> cooler than Hristonostare.

      <...>

      cjc> Therefore, "Erunostare" remains the more suitable in the world of
      cjc> Middle Earth. The only reason that Tolkein translated the word
      cjc> Christ into Sindarin or Quenya was that, at least to some extent,
      cjc> Tolkein was a practicing Christian. Tolkein was not from Middle
      cjc> Earth just as the Elves are not from and cannot visit our Earth
      cjc> to become acquainted with the idea of Christ.
      cjc> If you were to go to Middle Earth and say the word "Hristo" to an
      cjc> elf he/she would not understand the word. You would have to
      cjc> explain it's meaning and connotation.

      <...>

      cjc> There are plenty of people out there who would argue that point
      cjc> with you. It isn't an accident that 99% of the people who made
      cjc> name suggestions for Noelle used "Eru" in their suggestion! You
      cjc> are correct that Eru is a proper name but there are few other
      cjc> choices, except perhaps Ainatar (Holy Father) but that is still
      cjc> iffy. It may not be perfectly proper to use Eru for God but it is
      cjc> generally accepted. Until someone finds the Rossetta Stone of
      cjc> Quenya and Sindarin we must do the best with what we have.


      This message is the crown of the "scholarly discussion" we have had
      here. Instead of linguistics we had a poll of some kind, and its loose
      psephoanalysis is now used a 'proof' of one of the theories. The
      reason of the existence of two theories where there is a explicit
      univocal statement by Tolkien himself is a simple unawareness (if not
      averse, as Jerome have noticed). What shocks me is that the results of
      that unannounced improvised poll (a ballot-rigging, in fact, for "99%
      for Eru" is a false statement) are, as I have said, set up as an
      argument in the discussion notwithstanding that they openly contradict
      Tolkien, and only because it 'sounds cooler' 'no matter what Tolkein
      translated into Quenya and Sindarin'. Moreover we are offered an
      astonishing revelation that poor JRRT was trammeled by prejudice,
      sticking to 'not perfectly proper' use of _Eru_ for "God", and, what
      is more remarkable, poor linguists seem to have no choice but to
      accept that sad mistake because of its popularity. And our miserable
      taking could only be broken by the finding of the blessed Rossetta
      Stone of Quenya and Sindarin, which would presumably be free from
      Tolkien's mishmash, because 'Tolkein was not from Middle Earth' and
      therefore it is up to guys like Erucolindo to decide what would an elf
      say if he hears "Hriisto".


      Some people wrote that most of the newbies who desire to get an elvish
      name/tattoo etc. disappear as soon as they get one and we never hear
      of them anymore. One may doubt whether this is a good occupation for a
      list devoted to the scholarly study of the languages invented by
      J.R.R. Tolkien. But until this moment I've never seen on this list
      _patently false_ answers to these requests followed by such
      antiscientific and unscholarlike statements.



      Namaarie! S.Y., Elenhil Laiquendo


      : mana taare antuva nin iluuvatar · enyaare i metta pella · iire anarinya queluva? :
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