"Elvish names" vs scholarship
What results from usual requests for an elvish name on Elfling...
Noelle <queenoelle@...> wrote:
> anyway... about that "my name in elvish" thing... (hey, I'm...
> entitled) I have the evil untranslatable(sp?) name of Noelle.
> wow. I was sqinting through name books and Quenya wordlists all lastJerome Colburn <jcolburn@...> wrote:
> night and came up with nearly the same, (but with probably more
> work..) _Erunostarл_ it is then... :)
> _Hristonostarл_ would be more exact. Though Christ is not mentionedErucolindo <cclineavia3@...> wrote:
> in Tolkien's Secondary World, Tolkien didn't let that stop him from
> translating Catholic prayers into Quenya and Sindarin; as a result,
> we get _Hristo_ for Christ in the Litany of Loreto, published in
> VT44:12, line 13.
cjc> Noelle, I would still go with God (Eru) instead of Hristo
cjc> (Christ) since no matter what Tolkein translated into Quenya and
cjc> Sindarin, there is still no "Christ" in Lord of the Rings. There
cjc> are as I have said however, "Gods".
cjc> Anyway, I personally think that Erunostare or Erunostarel sounds
cjc> cooler than Hristonostare.
cjc> Therefore, "Erunostare" remains the more suitable in the world of
cjc> Middle Earth. The only reason that Tolkein translated the word
cjc> Christ into Sindarin or Quenya was that, at least to some extent,
cjc> Tolkein was a practicing Christian. Tolkein was not from Middle
cjc> Earth just as the Elves are not from and cannot visit our Earth
cjc> to become acquainted with the idea of Christ.
cjc> If you were to go to Middle Earth and say the word "Hristo" to an
cjc> elf he/she would not understand the word. You would have to
cjc> explain it's meaning and connotation.
cjc> There are plenty of people out there who would argue that point
cjc> with you. It isn't an accident that 99% of the people who made
cjc> name suggestions for Noelle used "Eru" in their suggestion! You
cjc> are correct that Eru is a proper name but there are few other
cjc> choices, except perhaps Ainatar (Holy Father) but that is still
cjc> iffy. It may not be perfectly proper to use Eru for God but it is
cjc> generally accepted. Until someone finds the Rossetta Stone of
cjc> Quenya and Sindarin we must do the best with what we have.
This message is the crown of the "scholarly discussion" we have had
here. Instead of linguistics we had a poll of some kind, and its loose
psephoanalysis is now used a 'proof' of one of the theories. The
reason of the existence of two theories where there is a explicit
univocal statement by Tolkien himself is a simple unawareness (if not
averse, as Jerome have noticed). What shocks me is that the results of
that unannounced improvised poll (a ballot-rigging, in fact, for "99%
for Eru" is a false statement) are, as I have said, set up as an
argument in the discussion notwithstanding that they openly contradict
Tolkien, and only because it 'sounds cooler' 'no matter what Tolkein
translated into Quenya and Sindarin'. Moreover we are offered an
astonishing revelation that poor JRRT was trammeled by prejudice,
sticking to 'not perfectly proper' use of _Eru_ for "God", and, what
is more remarkable, poor linguists seem to have no choice but to
accept that sad mistake because of its popularity. And our miserable
taking could only be broken by the finding of the blessed Rossetta
Stone of Quenya and Sindarin, which would presumably be free from
Tolkien's mishmash, because 'Tolkein was not from Middle Earth' and
therefore it is up to guys like Erucolindo to decide what would an elf
say if he hears "Hriisto".
Some people wrote that most of the newbies who desire to get an elvish
name/tattoo etc. disappear as soon as they get one and we never hear
of them anymore. One may doubt whether this is a good occupation for a
list devoted to the scholarly study of the languages invented by
J.R.R. Tolkien. But until this moment I've never seen on this list
_patently false_ answers to these requests followed by such
antiscientific and unscholarlike statements.
Namaarie! S.Y., Elenhil Laiquendo
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