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A question

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  • calwen76
    Hi all, I can t figure out what person is 2nd person plural inclusive/exclusive. Is the inclusive _we_ and exclusive _you (pl.)_? Please, help. Thanks a bunch.
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 31, 2004
      Hi all,

      I can't figure out what person is 2nd person plural
      inclusive/exclusive. Is the inclusive _we_ and exclusive _you (pl.)_?

      Please, help.

      Thanks a bunch.
      Lucy
    • Kai MacTane
      ... 2nd person is you . (That is, the speaker directly addressing some other party.) 1st person plural is we . (That is, the speaker referring to a group
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 31, 2004
        At 3/31/04 01:28 AM , calwen76 wrote:

        >I can't figure out what person is 2nd person plural
        >inclusive/exclusive. Is the inclusive _we_ and exclusive _you (pl.)_?

        2nd person is "you". (That is, the speaker directly addressing some other
        party.) 1st person plural is "we". (That is, the speaker referring to a
        group that includes him/herself. 1st person singular would be "I" - the
        speaker simply referring to him/herself as a single entity, without any
        surrounding group.)

        English does not have the concepts of inclusive vs. exclusive 1st person
        plurals, so it all becomes "we". But in Quenya, the inclusive means "a
        group that includes the listener, as well as the speaker", while the
        exclusive means "a group that includes the speaker, but no the listener."

        For example, suppose that I (an American) am addressing a Spaniard. If I
        want to speak about American politics, I might say "we elect a president
        every four years in November". I use the exclusive form, because Spanish
        elections happen in March, not November. But if I want to say something
        about all humans, such as "we have two hands and two feet", I use the
        inclusive form - Spaniards as well as Americans are included in the group
        that I'm talking about.

        I'd use the 2nd person plural to say something like "You have your
        elections in March, not November." Or "You speak Spanish; we (exclusive)
        speak English."

        Make sense now?

        --Kai MacTane
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        "Three o'clock in the morning/It's quiet and there's no-one around,
        Just the bang and the clatter/As an angel runs to ground,
        Just the bang and the clatter/As an angel hits the ground."
        --U2,
        "Stay (Faraway, So
        Close)"
      • calwen76
        ... person ... means a ... the ... listener. ... It makes a perfect sense now. Thanks a lot. Lucy
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 31, 2004
          --- In elfling-d@yahoogroups.com, Kai MacTane <kmactane@G...> wrote:
          > English does not have the concepts of inclusive vs. exclusive 1st
          person
          > plurals, so it all becomes "we". But in Quenya, the inclusive
          means "a
          > group that includes the listener, as well as the speaker", while
          the
          > exclusive means "a group that includes the speaker, but no the
          listener."
          >
          > Make sense now?

          It makes a perfect sense now. Thanks a lot.
          Lucy
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