Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [eldil] The Narnian Tarot...

Expand Messages
  • Steve Hayes
    ... This reminds me of a discussion in the alt.books.inklings newsgroup a few years ago. We were talking about Alan Garner s Elidor . Here s a snippet: ...
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 19, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      On 14 Jul 2008 at 15:43, Yvonne Aburrow wrote:

      > You've seen that the Chronicles of Narnia were based on the seven planets...
      > Now enjoy the Narnian Tarot:
      > http://druidjournal.net/2008/07/10/the-narnian-tarot/

      This reminds me of a discussion in the alt.books.inklings newsgroup a few
      years ago.

      We were talking about Alan Garner's "Elidor".

      Here's a snippet:

      On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:39:25 -0500, Cloutier <jmclout@...> wrote:

      >> look at the Treasures. I *think* that there might
      >> be images of the Arcana too, but I have never bothered with Tarotery
      >> and I'm not sure. The images I'm thinking of are Malebron and cliffs
      >> and ruined castles. If the symbols are there, they certainly aren't
      >> direct. I'm pretty confident about the Treasures, though.
      >
      > I always thought the treasures were the Arthurian/Celtic treasures
      (stone,
      >cup/grail, spear, sword) that you find in everything from folktales to Andre
      >Norton. I had thought of them as Christianized symbols taken over from
      older
      >religions. The unicorn dying to bring the world back to life was certainly
      a
      >medieval allegory for Christ. (By coming to the lap of the virgin, he is
      brought
      >to his fatal end...) The wasteland regenerated - another symbol. I never
      thought
      >Elidor was a religious allegory, but it uses powerful symbols that have a
      history
      >of association with old beliefs.

      > I remember disliking the book on first reading. But when I realized
      that the
      >unpleasantness and emptiness of the childrens' everyday world has a purpose
      in the
      >book, showing how that world is as much a wasteland as the one they visited,
      it
      >started making more sense to me.

      And I replied:

      I read it for the first time shortly after my first visit to Manchester, and
      found its realism most impressive. Garner gave a feel of Manchester, and this
      made the mingling of fantasy and the real world even more impressive.

      In Narnia there is always a crossing over. While what one has learned in one
      world can be used in the other, what one DOES in the one world does not
      affect
      the other. The other thing about my first reading of Elidor that the pace of
      the action was almost intolerably fast. What happens always brings pressure,
      and it is this pressure on the children that Garner evokes so clearly.

      One thing that I discovered later that made me curious was whether there was
      any link between Findhorn the unicorn and the Findhorn new age community in
      Scotland. I don't think there is, but the coincidence of the name seemed
      remarkable. Does anyone know where Garner got that?


      --
      Steve Hayes
      E-mail: shayes@...
      Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
      http://methodius.blogspot.com
    • Steve Hayes
      ... I ve been following the discussion there with some interest, and find that though initially there was a rejection of the idea that the Narnian stories are
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 4, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        On 14 Jul 2008 at 15:43, Yvonne Aburrow wrote:

        > You've seen that the Chronicles of Narnia were based on the seven planets...
        > Now enjoy the Narnian Tarot:
        > http://druidjournal.net/2008/07/10/the-narnian-tarot/

        I've been following the discussion there with some interest, and find that
        though initially there was a rejection of the idea that the Narnian stories
        are allegory, the people there now seem to have accepted the idea of a
        project to allegorise them in relation to the Tarot.

        I find that a bit odd.

        The Tarot is a set of symbols, which sometimes correspond with people and
        events in the world we know. They may correspond with people and events in
        the Narnia stories, but it seems a strange exercise in reverse typology to
        try and turn the events or people in the stories into symbols.

        I think it might be an interesting and enjoyable exercise to discuss the
        possible relevance of some of the Tarot symbols to some of the events and
        people in the stories, but trying to do the reverse -- create a pack of Tarot
        cards from events in the stories, seems dull and futile and forced.


        --
        Steve Hayes
        E-mail: shayes@...
        Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
        http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw
        Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
        Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
      • Yvonne Aburrow
        Hi Steve Yes, I think you re right. The idea is quite fun as long it is taken lightly and playfully, but once people start trying to force symbols into a box
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 5, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Steve

          Yes, I think you're right.  The idea is quite fun as long it is taken lightly and playfully, but once people start trying to force symbols into a box that doesn't fit, it doesn't work.  As Tolkien would have said, allegory is dead, long live applicability.  However that didn't stop Lewis being allegorical; I think it was one of the reasons why Tolkien hated Narnia.

          Thanks for the Chesterton quote you posted in the comments on my blog, by the way; for once I agreed wholeheartedly with Chesterton :)

          cheers
          Yvonne

          1a. Re: The Narnian Tarot...
             Posted by: "Steve Hayes" hayesstw@... hayesstw
             Date: Mon Aug 4, 2008 3:09 am ((PDT))

          On 14 Jul 2008 at 15:43, Yvonne Aburrow wrote:

          > You've seen that the Chronicles of Narnia were based on the seven planets...
          > Now enjoy the Narnian Tarot:
          > http://druidjournal.net/2008/07/10/the-narnian-tarot/

          I've been following the discussion there with some interest, and find that
          though initially there was a rejection of the idea that the Narnian stories
          are allegory, the people there now seem to have accepted the idea of a
          project to allegorise them in relation to the Tarot.

          I find that a bit odd.

          The Tarot is a set of symbols, which sometimes correspond with people and
          events in the world we know. They may correspond with people and events in
          the Narnia stories, but it seems a strange exercise in reverse typology to
          try and turn the events or people in the stories into symbols.

          I think it might be an interesting and enjoyable exercise to discuss the
          possible relevance of some of the Tarot symbols to some of the events and
          people in the stories, but trying to do the reverse -- create a pack of Tarot
          cards from events in the stories, seems dull and futile and forced.


          --
          Steve Hayes
          E-mail: shayes@...
            Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
                 http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw
             Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
          Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727




          --
          Yvonne
          ~~
          http://yaburrow.googlepages.com/
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.