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Re: [eldil] definition of virtue?

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  • Dan Drake
    ... Now there s a connection I never made. Along with a major rise of Inquisitions, for which there are some obvious historical reasons (purging Spain of the
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 10, 2013
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      On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:

      > Then
      > it suddenly broke down in the Great European Witch Hunt which really got
      > going in the 15th century -- wasn't that about the time Malory et al were
      > writing about chivalry?

      Now there's a connection I never made. Along with a major rise of Inquisitions, for which there are some obvious historical reasons (purging Spain of the Paynim Horde; Luther; Gutenberg; etc etc). Connections among all these are well beyond me to analyze, though.

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      Dan Drake
      dd@...
      http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
    • Graham Darling
      See C.S. Lewis The Necessity of Chivalry , originally /Time and Tide/, 1940-08-17, vol 21, p 841; reprinted in /Present Concerns/, 1986, p 13;
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 10, 2013
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        See C.S. Lewis "The Necessity of Chivalry", originally Time and Tide, 1940-08-17, vol 21, p 841; reprinted in Present Concerns, 1986, p 13; http://www.amazon.com/dp/0156027852/ref=cm_sw_su_dp#reader_0156027852 .

        The Four Cardinal Virtues (common to all humanity: see Plato The Republic,
        Steph 427ff) are Justice, Prudence (Wisdom), Temperance (Self-Mastery) and Fortitude.

        The Three Theological Virtues (special to Christians) are Faith, Hope and Love (Charity).

        On 2013-04-10 10:44 , Dan Drake wrote:
        On Apr 9, 2013, at 8:56 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
        
        
        That, I suspect, reflects the pagan notion of heroic virtue, or virtuous 
        heroism, untempered by any Christian notions of mercy. 
        
        In effect, it is a glorification of armed robbery, which, in the eyes of the 
        narrator of the poem at least, is virtuous.
        
        It's useful to be reminded of that poem, which I have always found loathsome since I first heard any of it beyond the first two lines, with their clever, jolly-rogue quality. ("What? The guy is SERIOUS?" Sheeesh!" IMHO.) 
        
        But there seems to be another thread to this matter, which hasn't been touched on. It's an account that I picked up a number of years ago, from a couple of sources, though I can't recall which, and it also seems to be just in the air to some extent.
        
        In this account the whole Chivalric Ideal is a more or less conscious attempt to get at the ruffians, bold in battle and highly skilled, who dominated Europe in the early Middle Ages, and civilize them by imbuing them with Christian virtue. If this is accurate, the effort certainly succeeded on a literary level, and probably on a practical one as well. As to at least the part of the ideal that constituted romanic love, I recall something of the sort from C. S. Lewis; but I don't remember whether he said much of the matter of valor, which concerns us here.
        
        Am I missing the obvious, or stating the too obvious, or maybe both?
        -GD
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        Mr. Graham Darling, PhD
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