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Re: [eldil] Digest Number 139

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  • Dan Drake
    ... He wrote The Allegory of Love , which is subtitled A Study in Medieval(*) Tradition . It s about, and not an example of. It looked good when I read it or
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 26, 2011
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      On Oct 26, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:

      > On 26 Oct 2011 at 15:54, Richard Lyman wrote:
      >
      >> Indeed yes. Of course, Lewis liked allegory all rigyht - and wrote
      >> it!
      >
      > I think he wrote something called an allegory of love, or something
      > like
      > that, but I haven't read it. If I had web access I might try to look
      > it up,
      > but I don't, so I won't.,
      >


      He wrote "The Allegory of Love", which is subtitled "A Study in
      Medieval(*) Tradition". It's about, and not an example of. It looked
      good when I read it or most of it, but it's not in my line at all.

      BTW it was a pleasure to see his comment on myth and allegory in the
      posting; that far into lit-crit, I can follow him.


      NB: TItle was copied from the Wikipedia entry, which I checked to make
      sure I hadn't got things totally wrong. Mentioning this to forestall
      any British-based comments on the failure to pay traditional homage to
      the ghosts of departed classical diphthongs. I don't know, however,
      what to think of the Amazon.com entry on the *Oxford* paperback.

      Further up etc: I didn't expect Google to find me an IMDB entry: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1385732/

      --
      Dan Drake
      dd@...
      http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
    • Steve Hayes
      ... I wonder what sort of his allegories he refers to there. In his letter to Tolkien about Beren & Luthien he refers to incipient allegories suggested to the
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 26, 2011
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        On 27 Oct 2011 at 9:06, Carolyn Janson wrote:

        > He did. It is a book about the courtly love customs of the Middle Ages.
        > I have it, but have not read it all; it is scholarly and quite dense.

        I wonder what sort of his allegories he refers to there. In his letter to
        Tolkien about Beren & Luthien he refers to incipient allegories suggested to
        the reader, but not necessarily intended by the writer.

        I'm assuming that his allegories of love in that book are more direct, and
        intended by the writer, or would that be wrong.

        The kind he referred to in his letter to Tolkien I know well -- for example,
        I used to refer to Maugrim in letters to a friend who was banned in South
        Africa when I was in England, treating Maugrim (from "The lion, the witch and
        the wardrobe") as an allegory for the South African Security police, which
        would surely not have been intended by Lewis, but was an incipient allegory
        suggested to the readers. Similarly we saw the White Witch as an allegory of
        the then South African government, and the statues in her castle as
        allegories of those banned and detained without trial.


        --
        Steve Hayes
        E-mail: shayes@...
        Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
        Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
        Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
        Fax: 086-548-2525
      • Carolyn Janson
        There is just one allegory in the book; it is the sentiment of courtly love, expressed by means of allegorical poems.. So it probably is quite different from
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 26, 2011
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          There is just one allegory in the book; it is the sentiment of courtly love, expressed by means of allegorical poems.. So it probably is quite different from the allegories you are thinking of. For instance, in the beginning of the second chapter, he says this: "...you can start with an immaterial fact, such as the passions which you actually experience, and can then invent visibilia to express them......... this is allegory, and it is with this alone that we have to deal." Like Erasmus's In Praise of Folly, which came to mind as i was reading this excerpt. Though of course, the courtly love allegory is in praise of that very specific form of love.

          Carolyn

          On 27/10/2011 09:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
          On 27 Oct 2011 at 9:06, Carolyn Janson wrote:
          
          
          He did. It is a book about the courtly love customs of the Middle Ages. 
          I have it, but have not read it all; it is scholarly and quite dense.
          
          I wonder what sort of his allegories he refers to there. In his letter to 
          Tolkien about Beren & Luthien he refers to incipient allegories suggested to 
          the reader, but not necessarily intended by the writer. 
          
          I'm assuming that his allegories of love in that book are more direct, and 
          intended by the writer, or would that be wrong. 
          
          The kind he referred to in his letter to Tolkien I know well -- for example, 
          I used to refer to Maugrim in letters to a friend who was banned in South 
          Africa when I was in England, treating Maugrim (from "The lion, the witch and 
          the wardrobe") as an allegory for the South African Security police, which 
          would surely not have been intended by Lewis, but was an incipient allegory 
          suggested to the readers. Similarly we saw the White Witch as an allegory of 
          the then South African government, and the statues in her castle as 
          allegories of those banned and detained without trial. 
          
          
          

          -- 
          Death is not extinguishing the light; it is extinguishing
           the lamp because the dawn has come.
          			Rabindranath Tagore
        • Steve Hayes
          ... Perhaps Lewis was quite postmodern about it. He clearly distinguishes between writerly and readerly allegories. Since the allegory of love is a study
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 27, 2011
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            On 27 Oct 2011 at 13:47, Carolyn Janson wrote:

            > There is just one allegory in the book; it is the sentiment of courtly
            > love, expressed by means of allegorical poems.. So it probably is quite
            > different from the allegories you are thinking of. For instance, in the
            > beginning of the second chapter, he says this: "...you can start with an
            > immaterial fact, such as the passions which you actually experience, and can
            > then invent /visibilia /to express them......... this is allegory, and it is
            > with this alone that we have to deal." Like Erasmus's In Praise of Folly,
            > which came to mind as i was reading this excerpt. Though of course, the
            > courtly love allegory is in praise of that very specific form of love.

            Perhaps Lewis was quite "postmodern" about it. He clearly distinguishes
            between "writerly" and "readerly" allegories. Since the allegory of love is a
            study of allegory, rather than an allegory itself, it seems that it was
            mostly the second kind that people have found in his writing, and that he
            found in Tolkien's. Tolkien disliked allegory (I wonder if he read "The
            Faerie Queen" or "Animal Farm"), so I wonder what he would have made of
            Lewis's comment. Perhaps he didn't mind the "readerly" kind.




            --
            Steve Hayes
            E-mail: shayes@...
            Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
            Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
            Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
            Fax: 086-548-2525
          • Richard Lyman
            Tolkien may have duisliked allegory, but if there is no allegory about Death and Purgatory in Leaf by Niggle ,  there is certianly a very convincing imitatio
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 29, 2011
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              Tolkien may have duisliked allegory, but if there is no allegory about Death and Purgatory in "Leaf by Niggle",  there is certianly a very convincing imitatio of one.
              Lewis's "The Pilgrim's Regress" is of course quite openoy allegorical.
              Richard Sturch.
            • Steve Hayes
              ... I don t think I ve read The pilgrim s regress -- Steve Hayes E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) Blog:
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 31, 2011
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                On 29 Oct 2011 at 15:45, Richard Lyman wrote:

                > Tolkien may have duisliked allegory, but if there is no allegory about Death
                > and Purgatory in "Leaf by Niggle",  there is certianly a very convincing
                > imitatio of one. Lewis's "The Pilgrim's Regress" is of course quite openoy
                > allegorical.

                I don't think I've read "The pilgrim's regress"


                --
                Steve Hayes
                E-mail: shayes@...
                Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
                Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
                Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
                Fax: 086-548-2525
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