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Re: [eldil] A Canticle For Leibowitz

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  • Steve Hayes
    ... Indeed. I wonder if any of them ever read it. Williams died before it was written, but Lewis and Tolkien could have rea d it. I ve read it three times now
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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      On 7 Dec 2010 at 12:18, Ann Ahnemann wrote:

      > CW, CSL and Tolkien particularly would have like this book.

      Indeed. I wonder if any of them ever read it. Williams died before it was
      written, but Lewis and Tolkien could have rea d it.

      I've read it three times now - in 1968, 1971 and 1995.

      A pity Miller only had one book in him. His "St Leibowitz and the Wild Horse
      Woman" is boring drivel.


      --
      Steve Hayes
      E-mail: shayes@...
      Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
      http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
    • Ann Ahnemann
      ... Indeed. I wonder if any of them ever read it. Williams died before it was written, but Lewis and Tolkien could have rea d it. I ve read it three times now
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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        On 7 Dec 2010 at 12:18, Ann Ahnemann wrote:

        > CW, CSL and Tolkien particularly would have like this book.

        Indeed. I wonder if any of them ever read it. Williams died before it was
        written, but Lewis and Tolkien could have rea d it.

        I've read it three times now - in 1968, 1971 and 1995.

        A pity Miller only had one book in him. His "St Leibowitz and the Wild Horse
        Woman" is boring drivel.

        Steve Hayes

        Here's the story of Walter M. Miller Jr.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_M._Miller,_Jr.

        He committed suicide and the two posthumous novels were completed by Terry Bisson to decidedly underwhelming reviews. Rather stunning actually that Miller shot himself having read Canticle and knowing that Miller once was a devout Catholic.

        AJA

        _,___

      • Dan Drake
        ... I have a fairly clear recollection of his saying he d read it. It was, I think, in an interview in his college rooms (cheating here -- I don t recall
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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          On Dec 8, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:

          > On 7 Dec 2010 at 12:18, Ann Ahnemann wrote:
          >
          >> CW, CSL and Tolkien particularly would have like this book.
          >
          > Indeed. I wonder if any of them ever read it. Williams died before
          > it was
          > written, but Lewis and Tolkien could have rea d it.

          I have a fairly clear recollection of his saying he'd read it. It was,
          I think, in an interview in his college rooms (cheating here -- I
          don't recall whether it was Magdalen or Magdalene) with somebody
          associated with the Billy Graham organization; but in which book, I
          don't know. Must try to look this up.

          In any case, he said he had read it recently, and I think he'd found
          it interesting; but having read it only once, he had no decided
          opinion about it. Splendidly Lewisian, no?

          [I don't post enough here. I see my e-mail program suggests replacing
          "Tolkien" with Toluene". No, thank you. And remember this the next
          time, Mr. Dictionary.]

          --
          Dan Drake
          dd@...
          http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
        • Hummingwolf
          Oh, you ve reminded me that I need to re-read the _On Stories_ collection! You re probably thinking of the last piece in there, an informal conversation
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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            Oh, you've reminded me that I need to re-read the _On Stories_ collection! You're probably thinking of the last piece in there, an "informal conversation between Professor Lewis, Kingsley Amis, and Brian Aldiss [that] was recorded on tape in Professor Lewis's rooms in Magdalene College a short while before illness forced him to retire."

            Here's a bit of the conversation about science fiction:

            AMIS: On the debit side, you often have these marvellous large themes tackled by people who haven't got the mental or moral or stylistic equipment to take them on. A reading of more recent science-fiction shows that writers are getting more capable of tackling them. Have you read Walter Miller's _Canticle for Leibowitz_? Have you any comments on that?

            LEWIS: I thought it was pretty good. I only read it once; mind you, a book's no good to me until I've read it two or three times--I'm going to read it again. It was a major work, certainly.

            AMIS: What did you think about its religious feeling?

            LEWIS: It came across very well. There were bits of the actual writing which one could quarrel with, but on the whole it was well imagined and well executed.

            ~~~

            So, that was the relevant bit of the conversation, but I quite like this:

            LEWIS: Are you looking for an ashtray? Use the carpet.

            AMIS: I was looking for the Scotch, actually.


            --- On Wed, 12/8/10, Dan Drake <yahoo@...> wrote:

            > From: Dan Drake <yahoo@...>
            > Subject: Re: [eldil] A Canticle For Leibowitz
            > To: eldil@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, December 8, 2010, 6:41 PM
            >
            > On Dec 8, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
            >
            > > On 7 Dec 2010 at 12:18, Ann Ahnemann wrote:
            > >
            > >> CW, CSL and Tolkien particularly would have like
            > this book.
            > >
            > > Indeed. I wonder if any of them ever read it. Williams
            > died before 
            > > it was
            > > written, but Lewis and Tolkien could have
            > rea    d it.
            >
            > I have a fairly clear recollection of his saying he'd read
            > it. It was, 
            > I think, in an interview in his college rooms (cheating
            > here -- I 
            > don't recall whether it was Magdalen or Magdalene) with
            > somebody 
            > associated with the Billy Graham organization; but in which
            > book, I 
            > don't know. Must try to look this up.
            >
            > In any case, he said he had read it recently, and I think
            > he'd found 
            > it interesting; but having read it only once, he had no
            > decided 
            > opinion about it. Splendidly Lewisian, no?
            >
            > [I don't post enough here. I see my e-mail program suggests
            > replacing 
            > "Tolkien" with Toluene". No, thank you. And remember this
            > the next 
            > time, Mr. Dictionary.]
            >
            > --
            > Dan Drake
            > dd@...
            > http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >     eldil-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
          • Ann Ahnemann
            From: eldil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eldil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Drake Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:41 PM To: eldil@yahoogroups.com Subject:
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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              From: eldil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eldil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Drake
              Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:41 PM
              To: eldil@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [eldil] A Canticle For Leibowitz

               


              [I don't post enough here. I see my e-mail program suggests replacing
              "Tolkien" with Toluene". No, thank you. And remember this the next
              time, Mr. Dictionary.]

              :)  So good to see you here Dan.  I miss the days of alt.books.cs-lewis.

              Mary Ezzel (Bree) mail mooreffoc.  Daryl Gene's email is changed, but I get a card from him once in a great while.  Joshua Burton.  David Porter passed away. I have books he sent me that he'd written. _The Practical Christianity of Malcolm Muggeridge_ paperback.  A superb book based on interviews with Muggeridge, once a great atheist, at his home.  Anyway, if you know of anyone, living that is, invite them here.

              Not to turn this into Facebook, but if you or any others here are on Facebook, look me up.  I don't do much with it, but there are a few pictures. And POST more often here!  You have been missed.  Thanks to Steve for starting this group.

              AJA



              --
              Dan Drake
              dd@...
              http://www.dandrake.com/index.html

            • Dan Drake
              ... Thanks for filling that in, and with correct information. I read it a long time ago -- my only poor excuse for forgetting Amis and Aldiss! The Graham
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                On Dec 8, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Hummingwolf wrote:

                > Oh, you've reminded me that I need to re-read the _On Stories_
                > collection! You're probably thinking of the last piece in there, an
                > "informal conversation between Professor Lewis, Kingsley Amis, and
                > Brian Aldiss [that] was recorded on tape in Professor Lewis's rooms
                > in Magdalene College a short while before illness forced him to
                > retire."

                Thanks for filling that in, and with correct information. I read it a
                long time ago -- my only poor excuse for forgetting Amis and Aldiss!
                The Graham connection was just a question one of them asked, of
                course. And the ashtray is another good piece of Lewisismus.


                --
                Dan Drake
                dd@...
                http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
              • Dan Drake
                ... Likewise! And my warmest Christmas greetings to you. (And to Steve and to the rest, of course) ... A dedicated non-Facebooker here, but I may have to
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                  On Dec 8, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Ann Ahnemann wrote:

                  >
                  > :) So good to see you here Dan. I miss the days of alt.books.cs-
                  > lewis.
                  >
                  Likewise! And my warmest Christmas greetings to you. (And to Steve and
                  to the rest, of course)

                  > Mary Ezzel (Bree) mail mooreffoc. Daryl Gene's email is changed,
                  > but I get a card from him once in a great while. Joshua Burton.
                  > David Porter passed away. I have books he sent me that he'd written.
                  > _The Practical Christianity of Malcolm Muggeridge_ paperback. A
                  > superb book based on interviews with Muggeridge, once a great
                  > atheist, at his home. Anyway, if you know of anyone, living that
                  > is, invite them here.!
                  >
                  > Not to turn this into Facebook, but if you or any others here are on
                  > Facebook, look me up. I don't do much with it, but there are a few
                  > pictures. And POST more often here! You have been missed. Thanks
                  > to Steve for starting this group.
                  >
                  A dedicated non-Facebooker here, but I may have to relent sooner or
                  later.

                  --
                  Dan Drake
                  dd@...
                  http://www.dandrake.com/index.html
                • Ann Ahnemann
                  Great reminder, H. I had to go look it up that last part again. Priceless! Thanks. AJA Oh, you ve reminded me that I need to re-read the _On Stories_
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                    Great reminder, H.  I had to go look it up that last part again. Priceless!

                    Thanks.

                    AJA

                    Oh, you've reminded me that I need to re-read the _On Stories_ collection! You're probably thinking of the last piece in there, an "informal conversation between Professor Lewis, Kingsley Amis, and Brian Aldiss [that] was recorded on tape in Professor Lewis's rooms in Magdalene College a short while before illness forced him to retire."

                    Here's a bit of the conversation about science fiction:

                    AMIS: On the debit side, you often have these marvellous large themes tackled by people who haven't got the mental or moral or stylistic equipment to take them on. A reading of more recent science-fiction shows that writers are getting more capable of tackling them. Have you read Walter Miller's _Canticle for Leibowitz_? Have you any comments on that?

                    LEWIS: I thought it was pretty good. I only read it once; mind you, a book's no good to me until I've read it two or three times--I'm going to read it again. It was a major work, certainly.

                    AMIS: What did you think about its religious feeling?

                    LEWIS: It came across very well. There were bits of the actual writing which one could quarrel with, but on the whole it was well imagined and well executed.

                    ~~~

                    So, that was the relevant bit of the conversation, but I quite like this:

                    LEWIS: Are you looking for an ashtray? Use the carpet.

                    AMIS: I was looking for the Scotch, actually.


                  • Steve Hayes
                    ... I love it when a literary critic of the stature of Lewis agrees with me! At the time I first read it I was in semi-exile from a seemingly hopeless
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                      On 8 Dec 2010 at 16:39, Hummingwolf wrote:

                      > getting more capable of tackling them. Have you read Walter Miller's
                      > _Canticle for Leibowitz_? Have you any comments on that?
                      >
                      > LEWIS: I thought it was pretty good. I only read it once; mind you, a book's
                      > no good to me until I've read it two or three times--I'm going to read it
                      > again. It was a major work, certainly.
                      >
                      > AMIS: What did you think about its religious feeling?
                      >
                      > LEWIS: It came across very well. There were bits of the actual writing which
                      > one could quarrel with, but on the whole it was well imagined and well
                      > executed.

                      I love it when a literary critic of the stature of Lewis agrees with me!

                      At the time I first read it I was in semi-exile from a seemingly hopeless
                      political situation at home, where the forces of evil (the government)
                      seemingly had the uper hand and were invincible.

                      A friend wrote to me from home recommending it, and its apolalyptic theme
                      appealed to us both, with the hope that the church could endure to the end
                      and salvage something from the ashes.

                      Anmd for Westenr Christians, with the season 0of Advent, that is an
                      appropriate time of the year to read such things, and think mabout such
                      things.

                      I heard an Anglican bishop, Lawrence Zulu, preach on the Advent Hope in
                      Grahamstown Cathedral, and he said that the Advent hope was also the Advent
                      terror. He asked a rhetorical question: how can the same event be one of both
                      hope and terror. And gave the analogy: burglars have broken into a house,
                      tied up the householder and are ransacking the place. Flashing blue lights
                      and sirens herald the arrival of the police - hope for the householder,
                      terror for the burglars.

                      While I'm wittering about that, a group of us are having a synchroblog on
                      Advent, and anyone interested can read the various contributions. Mine is at:

                      http://khanya.wordpress.com/

                      and you can surf to the others from there.


                      --
                      Steve Hayes
                      E-mail: shayes@...
                      Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
                      http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
                    • Steve Hayes
                      ... The one I read was a decidedly underwhelming book. Sad to learn that he committed suicide. -- Steve Hayes E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Web:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                        On 8 Dec 2010 at 18:32, Ann Ahnemann wrote:

                        > He committed suicide and the two posthumous novels were completed by Terry
                        > Bisson to decidedly underwhelming reviews. Rather stunning actually that
                        > Miller shot himself having read Canticle and knowing that Miller once was a
                        > devout Catholic.

                        The one I read was a decidedly underwhelming book.

                        Sad to learn that he committed suicide.


                        --
                        Steve Hayes
                        E-mail: shayes@...
                        Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
                        http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
                      • Steve Hayes
                        ... alt.books.cs-lewis is still there, as is alt.books.inklings, but I think that I m the only one who still posts in them. I sometimes crosspost to
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                          On 8 Dec 2010 at 19:52, Ann Ahnemann wrote:

                          > :) So good to see you here Dan. I miss the days of alt.books.cs-lewis.

                          alt.books.cs-lewis is still there, as is alt.books.inklings, but I think that
                          I'm the only one who still posts in them. I sometimes crosspost to
                          rec.arts.books.tolkien, and so some of the replies get crossposted back.

                          But one of the reasons for stating this forum was that alt.books.inklings was
                          moribund, and alt.books.cs-lewis seemed to be heading that way. The fact that
                          some major ISPs were cutting newsfeeds from their service didn't help, of
                          course3, but to kill this forum they'd have to cut e-mail, and I don't see
                          that happening. I still think that their clients should ask for reduced fees
                          for the reduced service.


                          --
                          Steve Hayes
                          E-mail: shayes@...
                          Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/STEVESIG.HTM
                          Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
                          Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
                          Fax: 086-548-2525
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