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RE: [eldil] Vampires in fiction and reality

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  • Ann Ahnemann
    What do you all think the lure of the undead is in western culture? What would the reason be?? Btw, reading Lilith I didn t think of her as a vampire,
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 16, 2010
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      What do you all think the lure of the undead is in western culture?  What would the reason be??

      Btw, reading Lilith I didn't think of her as a vampire, Richard.  From whence does the idea come?

      Best,

      Ann J A

       

      From: eldil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eldil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes
      Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:23 PM
      To: eldil@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [eldil] Vampires in fiction and reality

       

       

      One of the things that I find quite interesting is the tendency among some
      people to develop religions based on fictional characters. Sometimes it is at
      least partly tongue-incheek, as, for example, the campaign to get people to
      enter their religion on census forms as "Jedi Knight". But others seem to be
      dead serious, as this post on John Morehead's blog shows:

      "One of the helpful features of Amazon.com is its “Customers Who Bought This
      Item Also Bought…” recommendations. In a quest for new research and
      discussion topics using this feature I came across a book by Mary Y. Hallab,
      titled Vampire God: The Allure of the Undead in Western Culture (SUNY Press,
      2009). I’m glad I discovered it. I read through a lot of materials for
      reflection and discussion, many good, some not so good. Hallab’s Vampire God
      is recommended for those interested in vampires, folklore, literature, and
      the frequently neglected connections of these topics to death and religion."

      http://www.theofantastique.com/2010/01/25/mary-y-hallab-vampire-god/

      In another post John mentioned "the vampire community" and referred to
      vampires as a "sub-culture".

      I don't think any of the Inklings wrote about vampires, though they may have
      mentioned them in passing, but I think some have had at least a tendency to
      believe that Hobbits are real, though I don't know of any active attempts to
      create a religion based on them.

      Has anyone come across anything like this, especially among the Inklings?

      I now fully expect to find a cult of blast-ended skrewts, accusing J.K.
      Rowling of maligning the skrewt community.

      --
      Steve Hayes
      E-mail: shayes@...
      Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
      http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw

    • Ann Ahnemann
      Great article as great informative. Christians need to do a better job on all fronts. The undead??!! How horrific. What indeed would one do to be alive
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 16, 2010
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        Great article as great informative.  Christians need to do a better job on all fronts.  The undead??!!  How horrific.  What indeed would one do to be 'alive' forever?  Sucking the lifeblood of others?  Seems that symbolically that is happening on every front from business to taxation and everything in between.  The American culture at least is steeped in rotting blood suckers and not those of the Dracula ilk.  No stake or hanks of garlic will stop these creatures who wear neat business clothes or sit in Congress or who go to church every week and partake of Communion for that matter.

        Americans it is noted have NEVER faced up to death and the meaning of death and tangentially life or the meaning of life either.  And the Church has done little to help.  I can't resist noting that one horrific icon is our Lord and Savior dead or dying nailed to a cross run through fingers, hanging around necks.  It is images however venerated such as the Crucifix which feeds the horror of death over life everlasting promised by Christ.

        What think you all? 

        AJA

         

         

        From: eldil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eldil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes
        Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:23 PM
        To: eldil@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [eldil] Vampires in fiction and reality

         

         

        One of the things that I find quite interesting is the tendency among some
        people to develop religions based on fictional characters. Sometimes it is at
        least partly tongue-incheek, as, for example, the campaign to get people to
        enter their religion on census forms as "Jedi Knight". But others seem to be
        dead serious, as this post on John Morehead's blog shows:

        "One of the helpful features of Amazon.com is its “Customers Who Bought This
        Item Also Bought…” recommendations. In a quest for new research and
        discussion topics using this feature I came across a book by Mary Y. Hallab,
        titled Vampire God: The Allure of the Undead in Western Culture (SUNY Press,
        2009). I’m glad I discovered it. I read through a lot of materials for
        reflection and discussion, many good, some not so good. Hallab’s Vampire God
        is recommended for those interested in vampires, folklore, literature, and
        the frequently neglected connections of these topics to death and religion."

        http://www.theofantastique.com/2010/01/25/mary-y-hallab-vampire-god/

        In another post John mentioned "the vampire community" and referred to
        vampires as a "sub-culture".

        I don't think any of the Inklings wrote about vampires, though they may have
        mentioned them in passing, but I think some have had at least a tendency to
        believe that Hobbits are real, though I don't know of any active attempts to
        create a religion based on them.

        Has anyone come across anything like this, especially among the Inklings?

        I now fully expect to find a cult of blast-ended skrewts, accusing J.K.
        Rowling of maligning the skrewt community.

        --
        Steve Hayes
        E-mail: shayes@...
        Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
        http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw

      • Steve Hayes
        ... Concern about life after death. ... No, I didn t either, but I never managed to finish the book. I ve started it twice, and abandoned it about 2/3 of the
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 16, 2010
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          On 16 Nov 2010 at 10:20, Ann Ahnemann wrote:

          > What do you all think the lure of the undead is in western culture? What
          > would the reason be??

          Concern about life after death.

          > Btw, reading Lilith I didn't think of her as a vampire, Richard. From
          > whence does the idea come?

          No, I didn't either, but I never managed to finish the book. I've started it
          twice, and abandoned it about 2/3 of the way through.




          --
          Steve Hayes
          E-mail: shayes@...
          Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
          http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
        • Steve Hayes
          ... Last Sunday the gospel reading in church was the so-called parable of the Good Samaritan (interesting bit of racial stereotyping, that). But actually it
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 16, 2010
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            On 16 Nov 2010 at 10:58, Ann Ahnemann wrote:

            > Great article as great informative. Christians need to do a better job on all
            > fronts. The undead??!! How horrific. What indeed would one do to be 'alive'
            > forever? Sucking the lifeblood of others? Seems that symbolically that is
            > happening on every front from business to taxation and everything in between.
            > The American culture at least is steeped in rotting blood suckers and not
            > those of the Dracula ilk. No stake or hanks of garlic will stop these
            > creatures who wear neat business clothes or sit in Congress or who go to
            > church every week and partake of Communion for that matter.

            Last Sunday the gospel reading in church was the so-called parable of the
            "Good Samaritan" (interesting bit of racial stereotyping, that). But actually
            it is about Jesus and the lawyer, and the lawyer asks what he must do to
            inherit eternal life.

            And that raises the question of what we mean by "eternal life".

            Long before I read "Dracula", when I was about 8 years old our school was
            taken to see some plays put on by another school. I've forgotten most of
            them, but one was memorable, and I've never forgotten it. It was called "The
            monkey's paw". If you know the plot, skip the next paragraph.

            If you don't know the plot, it's about a family that has a lucky monkey paw,
            which can be used to make three wishes. They wish for a lot of money, and
            there is a knock at the door, with someone from the factory where the son
            works, to say he has been killed in an industrial accident, but the firm will
            give compensation -- to the amount that they wished for. They are horrified,
            and decide they would rather have their son alive than the money and so they
            wish for his return. There is another knock at the door, and this time it is
            their son, horribly mutilated from the accident. They realise that that is
            not what they want either, and wish that he is dead again.

            And that is not eternal life that we read about in the gospels. And the
            original vampire folklore has the same theme. Vampires are not living, they
            are just undead.

            Stephen King's novel "Pet sematary" also has the same theme. He also wrote
            one on vampires, "'Salem's Lot", but that was merely derivative, a pale
            shadow of "Dracula".

            But there is something about vampires that appeals to Western society.
            Originally the undead were people you really didn't want to be around, and
            there were all sorts of devices to make sure they stayed in the grave. But
            they have been glamourised, and now there are even, I am told, "vegetarian
            vampires".

            > Americans it is noted have NEVER faced up to death and the meaning of death
            > and tangentially life or the meaning of life either. And the Church has done
            > little to help. I can't resist noting that one horrific icon is our Lord and
            > Savior dead or dying nailed to a cross run through fingers, hanging around
            > necks. It is images however venerated such as the Crucifix which feeds the
            > horror of death over life everlasting promised by Christ.

            But that is the paradox of Christianity and the point of it. Christians took
            the symbol of a shameful and painful death, and made it a symbol of victory
            over death, so that we speak of "the honourable and life-giving cross".




            >
            > What think you all?
            >
            > AJA
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: eldil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:eldil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > Steve Hayes
            > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:23 PM
            > To: eldil@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [eldil] Vampires in fiction and reality
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > One of the things that I find quite interesting is the tendency among some
            > people to develop religions based on fictional characters. Sometimes it is at
            > least partly tongue-incheek, as, for example, the campaign to get people to
            > enter their religion on census forms as "Jedi Knight". But others seem to be
            >
            > dead serious, as this post on John Morehead's blog shows:
            >
            > "One of the helpful features of Amazon.com is its "Customers Who Bought This
            >
            > Item Also Bought." recommendations. In a quest for new research and
            > discussion topics using this feature I came across a book by Mary Y. Hallab,
            >
            > titled Vampire God: The Allure of the Undead in Western Culture (SUNY Press,
            >
            > 2009). I'm glad I discovered it. I read through a lot of materials for
            > reflection and discussion, many good, some not so good. Hallab's Vampire God
            >
            > is recommended for those interested in vampires, folklore, literature, and the
            > frequently neglected connections of these topics to death and religion."
            >
            > http://www.theofantastique.com/2010/01/25/mary-y-hallab-vampire-god/
            >
            > In another post John mentioned "the vampire community" and referred to
            > vampires as a "sub-culture".
            >
            > I don't think any of the Inklings wrote about vampires, though they may have
            >
            > mentioned them in passing, but I think some have had at least a tendency to
            > believe that Hobbits are real, though I don't know of any active attempts to
            >
            > create a religion based on them.
            >
            > Has anyone come across anything like this, especially among the Inklings?
            >
            > I now fully expect to find a cult of blast-ended skrewts, accusing J.K.
            > Rowling of maligning the skrewt community.
            >
            > --
            > Steve Hayes
            > E-mail: shayes@... <mailto:shayes%40dunelm.org.uk>
            > Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
            > http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            Steve Hayes
            E-mail: shayes@...
            Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
            http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
          • Ann Ahnemann
            ... Steve wrote: But that is the paradox of Christianity and the point of it. Christians took the symbol of a shameful and painful death, and made it a symbol
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 16, 2010
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              I wrote:

              >I can't resist noting that one horrific icon is our Lord and

              > Savior dead or dying nailed to a cross run through fingers, hanging around
              > necks. It is images however venerated such as the Crucifix which feeds the
              > horror of death over life everlasting promised by Christ.
              Steve wrote:
              But that is the paradox of Christianity and the point of it. Christians took
              the symbol of a shameful and painful death, and made it a symbol of victory
              over death, so that we speak of "the honourable and life-giving cross".
              A:
              I understand the symbol of the sacrifice Jesus made for all.  But that is not a live Christ on the cross. It is

              a dead body.  Life giving cross?  Not in that symbol for me.  I'm reading The Secret of the Rosary by St. Louis De Montfort in the hope

              that I learn something of the loyalty to the Rosary.

              AJA

            • Steve Hayes
              One of the things that I find quite interesting is the tendency among some people to develop religions based on fictional characters. Sometimes it is at least
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 17, 2010
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                One of the things that I find quite interesting is the tendency among some
                people to develop religions based on fictional characters. Sometimes it is at
                least partly tongue-in-cheek, as, for example, the campaign to get people to
                enter their religion on census forms as "Jedi Knight". But others seem to be
                dead serious, as this post on John Morehead's blog shows:

                "One of the helpful features of Amazon.com is its “Customers Who Bought This
                Item Also Bought…” recommendations. In a quest for new research and
                discussion topics using this feature I came across a book by Mary Y. Hallab,
                titled Vampire God: The Allure of the Undead in Western Culture (SUNY Press,
                2009). I’m glad I discovered it. I read through a lot of materials for
                reflection and discussion, many good, some not so good. Hallab’s Vampire God
                is recommended for those interested in vampires, folklore, literature, and
                the frequently neglected connections of these topics to death and religion."

                In another post John mentioned "the vampire community" and referred to
                vampires as a "sub-culture".

                I don't think any of the Inklings wrote about vampires, though they may have
                mentioned them in passing, but I think some have had at least a tendency to
                believe that Hobbits are real, though I don't know of any active attempts to
                create a religion based on them.

                Has anyone come across anything like this, especially among the Inklings?

                I now fully expect to find a cult of blast-ended skrewts, accusing J.K.
                Rowling of maligning the skrewt community.


                --
                Steve Hayes
                E-mail: shayes@...
                Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm
                http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw
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