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RE: [eiffel_software] Eiffel 62/Vista SPC1/VisualStudio 2008

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  • Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
    ... Could you relate this with your previous issue about C compilation problem? Does it mean that now if you do not run as admin then you cannot even launch
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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      > If I right-click on the standard EiffelStudio62 icon and Run as Admin,
      > then Estudio runs fine as does compilation. If not, then Estudio will not
      > launch.
      > This is after a reb0ot, but no other major changes.

      Could you relate this with your previous issue about C compilation problem? Does
      it mean that now if you do not run as admin then you cannot even launch
      EiffelStudio whereas yesterday you could but C compilation failed?

      Thanks,
      Manu
    • Jonathan S. Ostroff
      Yes. [And other than reinstalling, rebooting etc., I am not sure what changed. There are only two minor problems that I am now faced with. I cannot just double
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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        Yes.

        [And other than reinstalling, rebooting etc., I am not sure what changed.
        There are only two minor problems that I am now faced with. I cannot just
        double click on the Estudio icon (without the run as admin hack). I cannot
        double click on ecf files. Everything else appears to be working normally
        including C compilation.].

        Jonathan

        -----Original Message-----
        From: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:36 AM
        To: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [eiffel_software] Eiffel 62/Vista SPC1/VisualStudio 2008

        > If I right-click on the standard EiffelStudio62 icon and Run as Admin,
        > then Estudio runs fine as does compilation. If not, then Estudio will not
        > launch.
        > This is after a reb0ot, but no other major changes.

        Could you relate this with your previous issue about C compilation problem?
        Does
        it mean that now if you do not run as admin then you cannot even launch
        EiffelStudio whereas yesterday you could but C compilation failed?

        Thanks,
        Manu


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
        We haven t found a solution to this Vista problem yet, but we now understand the cause. For some reason, all the registry read access to HKLM are redirected to
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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          We haven't found a solution to this Vista problem yet, but we now understand the
          cause. For some reason, all the registry read access to HKLM are redirected to the
          Registry Virtual Store on Vista without merging its content with the content of
          the non-virtualized HKLM. My reading of the documentation says this should not
          happen but it does in your case.

          If this happens to someone else, you can either always run EiffelStudio as an
          administrator or disable UAC if you feel ok to do so.

          I'll keep you posted.

          Regards,
          Manu

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan S. Ostroff
          > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:34 AM
          > To: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [eiffel_software] Eiffel 62/Vista SPC1/VisualStudio 2008
          >
          > Yes.
          >
          > [And other than reinstalling, rebooting etc., I am not sure what changed.
          > There are only two minor problems that I am now faced with. I cannot just
          > double click on the Estudio icon (without the run as admin hack). I
          > cannot
          > double click on ecf files. Everything else appears to be working normally
          > including C compilation.].
          >
          > Jonathan
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
          > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:36 AM
          > To: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [eiffel_software] Eiffel 62/Vista SPC1/VisualStudio 2008
          >
          > > If I right-click on the standard EiffelStudio62 icon and Run as Admin,
          > > then Estudio runs fine as does compilation. If not, then Estudio will
          > not
          > > launch.
          > > This is after a reb0ot, but no other major changes.
          >
          > Could you relate this with your previous issue about C compilation
          > problem?
          > Does
          > it mean that now if you do not run as admin then you cannot even launch
          > EiffelStudio whereas yesterday you could but C compilation failed?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Manu
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Andrew Robson
          I think if there are registry entries in both the virtualised registry and the normal registry then it can cause these kinds of problems as it doesn t always
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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            I think if there are registry entries in both the virtualised registry
            and the normal registry then it can cause these kinds of problems as
            it doesn't always make a good decision on which keys to use. The same
            thing happens with the virtual store.

            Does Eiffel Studio try to recreate registry entries that are not
            present when it runs or create new registry entries when it runs? If
            so it may be on install as an admin user registry entries get put in
            the normal registry and on a run afterwards it then puts entries in
            the virtualised registry.

            Eitherway removing one set of the conflicting keys usually solves the problem.

            Another issue can occur if UAC has been turned off but there are still
            keys in the virtualised or normal registry, so say it was installed
            with UAC, run with normal user rights to make an entry in the
            virtualised registry and then UAC was turned off.

            The only way I can see to solve it is to choose either the application
            needs to always run as admin, or always as a user and make it so it
            will only use either the virtualised storage/reg keys or real
            storage/reg keys.

            Another side effect of all this UAC issue is that installs can get
            into wierd states with data both virtualised and normal and this can
            cause problems as well, So it may be worth if people have problems
            trying to clear up both normal and virtualised data from the program
            install. You can image if someone has upgraded ES, but there is
            virtualised data from the previous version this can cause headaches as
            well.

            Andrew

            On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Emmanuel Stapf [ES] <manus@...> wrote:
            > We haven't found a solution to this Vista problem yet, but we now understand
            > the
            > cause. For some reason, all the registry read access to HKLM are redirected
            > to the
            > Registry Virtual Store on Vista without merging its content with the content
            > of
            > the non-virtualized HKLM. My reading of the documentation says this should
            > not
            > happen but it does in your case.
            >
            > If this happens to someone else, you can either always run EiffelStudio as
            > an
            > administrator or disable UAC if you feel ok to do so.
            >
            > I'll keep you posted.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Manu
            >
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
            >> [mailto:eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan S. Ostroff
            >> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:34 AM
            >> To: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: RE: [eiffel_software] Eiffel 62/Vista SPC1/VisualStudio 2008
            >>
            >> Yes.
            >>
            >> [And other than reinstalling, rebooting etc., I am not sure what changed.
            >> There are only two minor problems that I am now faced with. I cannot just
            >> double click on the Estudio icon (without the run as admin hack). I
            >> cannot
            >> double click on ecf files. Everything else appears to be working normally
            >> including C compilation.].
            >>
            >> Jonathan
            >>
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
            >> [mailto:eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
            >> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:36 AM
            >> To: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: RE: [eiffel_software] Eiffel 62/Vista SPC1/VisualStudio 2008
            >>
            >> > If I right-click on the standard EiffelStudio62 icon and Run as Admin,
            >> > then Estudio runs fine as does compilation. If not, then Estudio will
            >> not
            >> > launch.
            >> > This is after a reb0ot, but no other major changes.
            >>
            >> Could you relate this with your previous issue about C compilation
            >> problem?
            >> Does
            >> it mean that now if you do not run as admin then you cannot even launch
            >> EiffelStudio whereas yesterday you could but C compilation failed?
            >>
            >> Thanks,
            >> Manu
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
          • Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
            ... No, EiffelStudio never tries to write to HKLM, this is done during installation by the installation program. I verified that for Jonathan, there were no
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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              > Does Eiffel Studio try to recreate registry entries that are not
              > present when it runs or create new registry entries when it runs? If

              No, EiffelStudio never tries to write to HKLM, this is done during installation by
              the installation program. I verified that for Jonathan, there were no entries for
              EiffelStudio in the virtual store registry, and that HKLM was properly configured.
              So we can discard the mixup problem when you have it appear twice.

              Thanks for your insight,
              Manu
            • Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
              ... At the moment, there is no documentation on the library, but if you look at the interface of PROCESS_FACTORY which is what you should be using to create a
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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                > Is there any documentation and/or examples on the process library - I
                > can't find any.

                At the moment, there is no documentation on the library, but if you look at the
                interface of PROCESS_FACTORY which is what you should be using to create a PROCESS
                instance, it should be pretty easy to figure out what you can achieve with the
                process library.

                Hope this helps,
                Manu
              • Andrew Robson
                ... Just be aware of what may or may not be virtualised, either files or registry keys. For instance if the user decides not to precompile the libraries during
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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                  On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 1:40 AM, Emmanuel Stapf [ES] <manus@...> wrote:
                  >> Does Eiffel Studio try to recreate registry entries that are not
                  >> present when it runs or create new registry entries when it runs? If
                  >
                  > No, EiffelStudio never tries to write to HKLM, this is done during
                  > installation by
                  > the installation program. I verified that for Jonathan, there were no
                  > entries for
                  > EiffelStudio in the virtual store registry, and that HKLM was properly
                  > configured.
                  > So we can discard the mixup problem when you have it appear twice.
                  >
                  > Thanks for your insight,
                  > Manu

                  Just be aware of what may or may not be virtualised, either files or
                  registry keys. For instance if the user decides not to precompile the
                  libraries during install (I think thats an option) then if they try
                  doing that when they run the program when it has user rights I'm not
                  sure whether it would work or what would happen.

                  Incidently if users want to set it to run as admin everytime it runs
                  you can do this by editing the shortcut and under compatibility should
                  be an option to Run this program as an Administrator, setting this
                  should make Windows always run the application with admin rights,
                  however they may still get a UAC prompt they will need to agree with
                  to allow it and sometimes it seems windows likes to cache these
                  choices so if you say no by accident or on purpose in the future it
                  may not run as admin even if you ask it to unless you clear the
                  application from some kind of black list, The setting can also be set
                  on individual exe's but I prefer to use the shortcut and theory has it
                  from there any processes spawned will have admin rights as well.

                  Also a good way to clear up permissions issues I have found is to
                  duplicate the folder delete the original and rename the copy the copy
                  should then have all the permissions of the current user so it should
                  run. Of course if you log on as another user ...
                • Zak Koufakis
                  Manu, Does this process library exist in EiffelStudio s UNIX (Solaris) version? If yes, how is it implemented - using fork? Thanks, Zak ... From:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 1, 2008
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                    Manu,

                    Does this process library exist in EiffelStudio's UNIX (Solaris)
                    version?

                    If yes, how is it implemented - using fork?

                    Thanks,

                    Zak

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel Stapf
                    [ES]
                    Sent: 02 August 2008 00:56
                    To: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [eiffel_software] Re: Eiffel on Windows

                    > Is there any documentation and/or examples on the process library - I
                    > can't find any.

                    At the moment, there is no documentation on the library, but if you look
                    at the
                    interface of PROCESS_FACTORY which is what you should be using to create
                    a PROCESS
                    instance, it should be pretty easy to figure out what you can achieve
                    with the
                    process library.

                    Hope this helps,
                    Manu


                    ------------------------------------

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                  • Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
                    ... Yes. ... Basically this is using the fork/exec pattern. The process library is portable among platforms and for example it is used in EiffelStudio to
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 2, 2008
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                      > Does this process library exist in EiffelStudio's UNIX (Solaris)
                      > version?

                      Yes.

                      > If yes, how is it implemented - using fork?

                      Basically this is using the fork/exec pattern.

                      The process library is portable among platforms and for example it is used in
                      EiffelStudio to redirect the output of the C compilation to the `C output' tab.

                      Regards,
                      Manu
                    • Zak Koufakis
                      Manu, Thanks - this is good news: I can get rid of my own fork implementation on Solaris (since version 4.5 in 2000) and use the process library instead. I
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 2, 2008
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                        Manu,

                        Thanks - this is good news: I can get rid of my own fork implementation
                        on Solaris (since version 4.5 in 2000) and use the process library
                        instead.

                        I hope in version 6.3 - the quality version - you can also provide
                        documentation and examples for this library (and improve the others). It
                        is not even mentioned in Eiffel's library page - I was unaware of its
                        existence!

                        Regards,

                        Zak

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel Stapf
                        [ES]
                        Sent: 02 August 2008 14:56
                        To: eiffel_software@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [eiffel_software] Re: Eiffel on Windows

                        > Does this process library exist in EiffelStudio's UNIX (Solaris)
                        > version?

                        Yes.

                        > If yes, how is it implemented - using fork?

                        Basically this is using the fork/exec pattern.

                        The process library is portable among platforms and for example it is
                        used in
                        EiffelStudio to redirect the output of the C compilation to the `C
                        output' tab.

                        Regards,
                        Manu


                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links



                        Find out more about Talis at www.talis.com
                        Shared InnovationTM


                        Any views or personal opinions expressed within this email may not be those of Talis Information Ltd. The content of this email message and any files that may be attached are confidential, and for the usage of the intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient, then please return this message to the sender and delete it. Any use of this e-mail by an unauthorised recipient is prohibited.


                        Talis Information Ltd is a member of the Talis Group of companies and is registered in England No 3638278 with its registered office at Knights Court, Solihull Parkway, Birmingham Business Park, B37 7YB.
                      • Emmanuel Stapf [ES]
                        ... Most of the new stuff we provide are highlighted in our release notes for each release. For the documentation, we are working on improving the quality of
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 5, 2008
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                          > I hope in version 6.3 - the quality version - you can also provide
                          > documentation and examples for this library (and improve the others). It
                          > is not even mentioned in Eiffel's library page - I was unaware of its
                          > existence!

                          Most of the new stuff we provide are highlighted in our release notes for each
                          release. For the documentation, we are working on improving the quality of our
                          documentation for 6.3 to make it easier to find what you are looking for.

                          Regards,
                          Manu
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