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[efiwebheads] Re: Real English

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  • Moral
    Hello Ming, ... Don t say so. You are a very well-argued guy and I really appreciate it. ... I am afraid to discuss sensitive questions too. But let us finish
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 1 2:45 AM
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      Hello Ming,

      > I think I have get lots of embarrassed experiences from you; you gave
      > me too much compliment so far! Sounds too good to be true...
      >
      Don't say so. You are a very well-argued guy and I really appreciate it.

      >I really afraid
      > of discussing this topic with people from China since too many people are
      > aggressive and could not listen to others, sometimes they are paranoid. You
      > are really out of my expection and open-minded! :o
      >
      I am afraid to discuss sensitive questions too. But let us finish it since we have started it. I look forward to talking some more interesting and easy topic with you. :-)

      > But even they back to China, people still can not vote for their own leader,
      > right? China assign the person for them. I know there have some objection in
      > Hong Kong for the decision that the government did( I mean, assign a people
      > for them) but it's useless. The residents in Hong Kong still have rights
      > for speech, however, their voice slow down. not everybody brave enough to
      > test government's respond to see whether their declaration is true.(neither
      > do I, I am timid... =P)
      >
      I am afraid there is something in need to be clarified. The HongKong reisdents did elect their leader themselves. In about 1996, the Hongkong residents elected a committee themselves which was responsible for electing their own leader. Then the applicants for the leader were collected. Every HongKong citizen had the right to enter for. I remember 7 people did it including a Taxi driver and a retired civilian. After that, a preelection was performed and several applicants were preelected to become the governer candidates. Finally, the HongKong governer was engendered afer a final vote of the committee and he was a businessman who was born and grew up in HongKong apart from a few school years aboard. So the leader was not sent by any other government and the Hongkong people chose him unless the committee betrayed them. The HongKong people hold their passports that are visa-free to dozens of countries. I think many people are willing to fight for their right if it is in need.

      > It's not quite true, in the past, government still accept and repect those
      > suggestion from places before they make decision. Now the China government
      > did not really do the same, for example, the new airport's construction.
      > They did not ask the local resident's opinion, did not ask the suggestions
      > from experts, just did what they plan to do. They claim that they had post
      > the announcement to invite the residents and people to join their
      > conferences and offer their opinions but no body shows up( in fact, that
      > news is seldom known by people...). The tragedy is, the people live near
      > the new airport got phical injury because of the sound of planes-->it is too
      > closed to their community. Also, they have more aircrafts' accident since
      > they did not consider the factor of wether and location when they decide the
      > location to build airport. Before, people can use the power of criticism to
      > make their life better, and now, it's useless...(the government always say
      > they do everything for people, like they always can find the reason to ban
      > people from joining some religion
      >
      Ming, I am afraid you cited a bad example. The governer of Hongkong announced the plan to construct a new airport at Chek Lap Kok in 1989 when HongKong was under the British rule. If my memory serves me, the Chinese government and the British government conflicted for it before the construction started. The Chinese government oppose the plan because of the huge amount of money involved and something else. We know British won finally. And the construction was begun several years before Hongkong's return to the Chinese rule. For some datails about the airport's key dates and events. Please visit:
      http://www.hkairport.com/about/main/cindex.htm (Big5 Chinese)
      http://www.hkairport.com/about/main/index.htm (English)
      Of course, I don't mean the airport is not good.

      >...once time I watch China's TV news from
      > here, the surprised thing is, what it report is totally different from the
      > news I read from other countries. Too many things make me feel hard to trust
      > China's government; if they can always filter the info. and only provide the
      > news they want their people, how can I tell when their saying is true?)
      >
      I agree that the people need truth.

      > I think it's an emigrantion tide. A lot of people move out from Hong
      > Kong before 1997; if they have enough money, they move to Canada, others
      > move to the countries arround it. Within that period, the number of Hong
      > Kong people in the southern part of Taiwan increased, since I lived there at
      > that period, I can prove it(please dont ask me how to tell them from local
      > people, it's so easy to distinguish the difference). I think that is people
      > lacking of the sense of security. Now the majority of some big cities in
      > Canada are Chinese( I think the number of cities is two, I am not quite sure
      > of it), and most of them are from Hong Kong. Perhaps Michael and Ravon know
      > it better than me.
      >
      Thanks for the information. I didn't know it much. Things might be very bad then. But please let me assume some situations:
      1. People left Hongkong before Jul 1st, 1997, because of the fears of the possible changes of their life.
      2. If less left and a few came back after that, can we think that the people got confidence about their life after some abservation and would like to live in this land?
      3. If they don't leave now, maybe they enjoy their life now.

      > So, What Taiwan is right now? We are not belong to China, have our own
      > government, have business with countries included China. We have territory,
      > people, government, our own rights for the land, is that the definition of a
      > country?
      >
      It's quite hard to say. Really! You can say it is enough but others can say not.

      > BTW, we use traditional Chinese--Big5 code, you use simplify
      > Chinese--GB code,
      >
      It's very easy to tranlate these two codes with a very small programe less than 1 Megabytes. We use traditional Chinese in some occasions. And HongKong entirely use Big5 Chinese. .

      >the way we talk is different from your speaking, even in
      > writing, our grammer also have slight changes. American and British people
      > are still use the same language system, how about us? Taiwan is more close
      > to Singapore since they still use traditional Chinese.( I also rather use
      > this system, it's not only preserve the tradition shape of Chinese words but
      > also more beautiful from my view.) to look.
      >
      I like to watch traditional Chinese too. There are many Chinese people in the ethnic groups who don't know Chinese at all, but they are Chinese.

      >If governments change their
      > attitude to each other, what's the really matter need to force Taiwan belong
      > to China? We have silght different culture right now, why we need to force
      > to accept to China's module? Do you ever think why Mongolia want to seperate
      > from China? That's because of the culture need to be respected. So far I
      > cant see the government in China did anything to show their respection to
      > Taiwan but threaten and terrification, how can you let Taiwanese believe
      > China would keep their current type of life?
      >
      I cann't. It is too hard.

      >China is afraid that they
      > couldnt control people any more; like e-commerce, they hesitate opening
      > this market to foreign countries investigating for a long while since they
      > can not keep filtering info. to people too long. If I say anything wrong,
      > please correct me.
      >
      Information can not be blocked even now. It's trend.

      >
      > why? that means they already form different culture, right? I did not
      > insist we should be independent, just want you to think about it, what's the
      > difference between dependent and independent? We would not become enemy and
      > still keep communication with each other after independent, just own
      > different different life style and culture, why we need to be united? From
      > history, Taiwan didnt really belong to China, they never really care about
      > this island, even Japanese did more contribution on it.
      >
      But the Taiwanese government is from Nanjing, China and it was the Chinese central government before 1949. The government is now in Taipei and seems to want to produce another country.

      >It's hard to persuad
      > people that China is their motherland and they should go back to its arm
      > except those old solders( but some of them also changed their mind now). If
      > you ask the old generation, you might get the answer, they would rather be a
      > Japanese than a Chinese. However, I dont think I need to insist this part;
      > for me, Taiwan was an independent country for a long while, dont need to
      > mention it particularly although no nations dare to confess it in the
      > public.
      >
      It's sad to hear that. You can hold your thoughts.

      > So you can see how selfish both Chinese governments are! You feel glad
      > that eventually China can replace of Taiwan's government in the Unions,
      >
      No, I don't think so.

      >have
      > you ever think about the people in Taiwan? Since those politicians want more
      > power for themselves, they sacrify people's interest just for themselves.
      > Why those countries change their mind? That's because China owns
      > powerful weapon, you cant deny it.
      >
      I don't think so many countries fear China's weapons - they are not so powerful. You must know the British government also wants to keep North Ireland. I understand the feeling. Most Chinese people don't want to see Taiwan's independence. I don't think they are for any power. I bet the Taiwanese government will ge much more power after independence. But so many people are following it.

      > > You need to tell me more because I don't know it. I don't think it is wise
      > to interfere HongKong's internal business. I was told that China has done as
      > promised mostly and the international society admit it.
      > >
      >
      > I think you mislead what I said before. neither do I think the
      > government should intervene their business market, so I protest Taiwan's
      > government doing that. I wote down it for ironic. =P What I more care about
      > is people's living. Actually I dont care the official affair but about that
      > does they would affect residents' daily life. I have mentioned that above.
      >
      I am not good at economics, but when a financial crisis came, if the interfere could punish the speculator,
      why wasn't the government flexible enough to do it. But I am not sure.

      > BTW, do you have any feelings about those innocent people who alleged
      > for some nonsense statements by people, arrestted and spent their whole life
      > in jail through several internal revolutions in China? If you think this
      > question is inappropriate, please ignore it..
      >
      It's too long to talk and it's out of the subject so I don't talk about it here and now.

      Thank you Ming for letting me know a lot about Taiwan which I din't know before. :-)) It is being so nice to talk with you. :-))

      Good luck!

      Moral
    • Ming
      Hi, Moral, ... reisdents did elect their leader themselves. In about 1996, the Hongkong residents elected a committee themselves which was responsible for
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 1 5:04 AM
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        Hi, Moral,

        > I am afraid there is something in need to be clarified. The HongKong
        reisdents did elect their leader themselves. In about 1996, the Hongkong
        residents elected a committee themselves which was responsible for electing
        their own leader. Then the applicants for the leader were collected. Every
        HongKong citizen had the right to enter for. I remember 7 people did it
        including a Taxi driver and a retired civilian. After that, a preelection
        was performed and several applicants were preelected to become the governer
        candidates. Finally, the HongKong governer was engendered afer a final vote
        of the committee and he was a businessman who was born and grew up in
        HongKong apart from a few school years aboard. So the leader was not sent by
        any other government and the Hongkong people chose him unless the committee
        betrayed them. The HongKong people hold their passports that are visa-free
        to dozens of countries. I think many people are willing to fight for their
        right if it is in need.
        >

        > Ming, I am afraid you cited a bad example. The governer of Hongkong
        announced the plan to construct a new airport at Chek Lap Kok in 1989 when
        HongKong was under the British rule. If my memory serves me, the Chinese
        government and the British government conflicted for it before the
        construction started. The Chinese government oppose the plan because of the
        huge amount of money involved and something else. We know British won
        finally. And the construction was begun several years before Hongkong's
        return to the Chinese rule. For some datails about the airport's key dates
        and events. Please visit:
        > http://www.hkairport.com/about/main/cindex.htm (Big5 Chinese)
        > http://www.hkairport.com/about/main/index.htm (English)
        > Of course, I don't mean the airport is not good.
        >

        I am sorry that I got the wrong info. . Besides news, I also read some info.
        from the newsletter from Hong Kong, and that's what it told me. I am not
        sure the website still there, I need take time to find it...


        > Thanks for the information. I didn't know it much. Things might be very
        bad then. But please let me assume some situations:
        > 1. People left Hongkong before Jul 1st, 1997, because of the fears of the
        possible changes of their life.
        > 2. If less left and a few came back after that, can we think that the
        people got confidence about their life after some abservation and would like
        to live in this land?
        > 3. If they don't leave now, maybe they enjoy their life now.
        >

        The problem is, even people go back to Hong Kong sometimes, they just go
        back to visit and still live oversea. Meanwhile, most students I know they
        dont want back to Hong Kong also. I can not say anything about your
        assumptions, we need to ask more people from Hong Kong first.



        > It's quite hard to say. Really! You can say it is enough but others can
        say not.

        If you can not really opposite this statement, how can you say it's not a
        independent country? Does their has other definition for a country?


        > It's very easy to tranlate these two codes with a very small programe less
        than 1 Megabytes. We use traditional Chinese in some occasions. And HongKong
        entirely use Big5 Chinese. .


        It's not only about different shape of words, language is affected by
        culture and society also; you can find more differences on writing. Of
        course, it's not difficult to recognize simplize Chinese for me, like I can
        read some Japanese and English, however, it's not my native language.


        > >If governments change their
        > > attitude to each other, what's the really matter need to force Taiwan
        belong
        > > to China? We have silght different culture right now, why we need to
        force
        > > to accept to China's module? Do you ever think why Mongolia want to
        seperate
        > > from China? That's because of the culture need to be respected. So far I
        > > cant see the government in China did anything to show their respection
        to
        > > Taiwan but threaten and terrification, how can you let Taiwanese believe
        > > China would keep their current type of life?
        > >
        > I cann't. It is too hard.
        >

        So, what you expect Taiwanese do if China just want Taiwan but dont promise
        the living of people?


        > Information can not be blocked even now. It's trend.
        >

        Are you sure? they still filter the info. on the internet and only open what
        they think hermless; recently they moniter it for some news and change some
        regulations.( I am guite sure it's correct this time. :> ) Also, they stop
        some foreign programs in some specific day and say that there has some
        problem with the transmission. like the day closed to the date 6/4.
        Meanwhile, they also deceit people and cover the truth, like what KMT did in
        Taiwan but more.




        > But the Taiwanese government is from Nanjing, China and it was the Chinese
        central government before 1949. The government is now in Taipei and seems to
        want to produce another country.

        I am sorry that I can not agree with you at this point, actually, we already
        have different country names since that moment, remember?



        > It's sad to hear that. You can hold your thoughts.
        >

        Sorry, Moral, I cant see something wrong with my saying to make you feel
        sorrow, if China cant do something for Taiwanese to make them think China's
        government is reliable, how can you want people have the same standing with
        you? I think it's a really nature thing. =)
        If you were a Taiwanese, what would you do? If China is good enough to be
        followed, why so many people in Taiwan have sounds for protesting China's
        saying? The government in Taiwan can not force people say anything that they
        disagree with.



        > > So you can see how selfish both Chinese governments are! You feel
        glad
        > > that eventually China can replace of Taiwan's government in the Unions,
        > >
        > No, I don't think so.
        >

        Why? Before China entered the Unions, you felt upset about it; after that
        Taiwanese felt bad for it, why cant say they are selfish? Both dont consider
        the other's situation. If we cant stand in different angles to look at the
        same thing, we would be subjective.



        > I don't think so many countries fear China's weapons - they are not so
        powerful. You must know the British government also wants to keep North
        Ireland. I understand the feeling. Most Chinese people don't want to see
        Taiwan's independence. I don't think they are for any power. I bet the
        Taiwanese government will ge much more power after independence. But so many
        people are following it.
        >


        If you have other thinking, please permit me ask you one thing, China dont
        have strong economic power but Taiwan do, if China is also not strong at
        military, what they use to warn other countries not let Taiwan join some
        organizations? As I know, China sells weapon to other countries and owns
        nuclear weapon. They did some nuclear tests under permission by other
        countries before also(those countries that own nuclear weapon have some
        agreements for testing ). Recently it also developes weapon and seeks for
        other countries to coporate with agressively, it has invoke the awareness in
        the world. They are not strong at this field? Hard to believe it.(for me, at
        least)



        > I am not good at economics, but when a financial crisis came, if the
        interfere could punish the speculator,
        > why wasn't the government flexible enough to do it. But I am not sure.
        >

        Neither am I, you can not rely on classical economic theorems to explain
        current situations. There has some people make efforts on explaining why the
        USA's economic do not go down as expected. Whatever, it's not my major. =)



        > Thank you Ming for letting me know a lot about Taiwan which I din't know
        before. :-)) It is being so nice to talk with you. :-))


        It's my honor to share some part of my thinking with you too though we are
        varies at some issues. I cant not present the whole Taiwanese, Taiwan has
        too much voice for it. ^^

        Besides, I dont think it would get any influence after Taiwan announce
        independent( just an assumption, dont worry about it too much), Taiwan has
        been independent physically, where the government can get more power for
        it?(In a democratic country, the institution can be stronger and more
        completely, but not the government). Taiwan's government is just under
        transition to real democratic country, since it allows people to criticize
        everything and it's easy to read bad thoughts for governments on the net,
        you would think Taiwanese is not really satisfy with the government;
        however, if you let people choose which government to belong to, they
        rather keeping the current one. Once we know how to gather people's power
        and manupulate it, we can change the government to what we want, and it's
        hard to do the same thing on China's government. =)


        Please forgive me stop replying your letter on this issue later, I think
        it's enough, others might feel bored and dull for it. ^^;;

        all of you have a great day.

        ming
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