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RE: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question

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  • Toft Stade
    I second that. If any posts show up in swedish, danish or norwegian I ll do my best to give bi-lingual answers :) /Toft ... From: editplus@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
      I second that.
      If any posts show up in swedish, danish or norwegian I'll do my best to give bi-lingual
      answers :)
      /Toft

      -----Original Message-----
      From: editplus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:editplus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bronius
      Motekaitis
      Sent: den 5 november 2007 18:59
      To: editplus@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question

      I'm all in favor of multi-lingual posting. Specific-language forums reduce a large pool
      of helpers and helped. I do like the way you (dZ) made a Spanish/English reply. Good
      usability :)

      Most topics are Q/A form, so just like we learn to ignore some questions that don't
      pertain, we can also easily ignore the few non-[native-language] questions and move on. I
      don't think you'll find a huge bombardment of non-english posting. If we do, then we can
      reconsider branching off a separate forum (like editplus-es).

      And there's always Google Translate to help the very most ambitious who feel they have to
      respond to every email.

      my two pesos
      -bronius


      On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello:
      > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus users whom are not
      > native English speakers. Is there a specific etiquette rule that
      > should be observed for these instances? I mean, should the list be
      > ONLY in English? I understand that if someone posts in a foreign
      > language, even if someone replies, their pool of resources is limited,
      > as not all members of the list will be able to participate in the
      > discussion.
      > On the other hand, for those who can't properly communicate in English
      > (or have trouble doing so in a practical situation), being prevented
      > from posting to the list will certainly affect their ability to use
      > EditPlus.
      >
      > On the one hand, English speakers will be alienated from discussions;
      > on the other, non-English speakers will. Should there be other
      > language-specific lists (say, editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
      > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they exist already?)
      >
      > I speak both English and Spanish, and could participate on both lists
      > if necessary, but is it good practice, or should we stick to the
      > single list?
      > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside Spanish and
      > English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
      >
      > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
      > -dZ.
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      http://www.editplus.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Mark Kahn
      I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we don t get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem. At the same time, however, I don t
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
        I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we
        don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

        At the same time, however, I don't think we should tell people that it
        is okay to post in whatever language they want because I don't want
        half the posts on this list to be in a dozen different languages.

        ---------------------------------------
        Mark Kahn

        http://a.sparag.us
        Web 2.0 Data Management
        ---------------------------------------
        Sent from my iPod Touch

        On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..." <dz@...> wrote:

        > Mark,
        > I agree with your comment. However, the question
        > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
        > happens to post in a different language? In such
        > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
        > The worst scenario being that the message goes
        > completely ignored and the poster has to either
        > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
        > machine-translated) English.
        >
        > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
        > Some people think that posting in any other language
        > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
        > And this is very much dependent on the community
        > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
        > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
        > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
        > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
        > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
        > understand, I could offer help.
        >
        > That said, I will not, however, encourage
        > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
        > object to it.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > -dZ.
        >
        > >------- Original Message -------
        > >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
        > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
        > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
        > >Cc :
        > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
        > etiquette question
        > >
        > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
        > but there's no possible
        > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
        > post from someone that
        > asked a question in cantonese.
        >
        > There are so many free translation services out there
        > that I believe
        > non-english speaking people should translate posts
        > into english and then
        > translate the responses back in order to read them.
        > Translation services
        > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
        > seen a translation from
        > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
        >
        > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
        > the possible exception
        > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
        > this list if you ask
        > in any language other than english. If I went to a
        > german or chinese forum
        > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
        > necessarily expect people
        > to answer me.
        >
        > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
        > base. We have maybe a
        > dozen people on the english list that will actively
        > answer a question.
        > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
        > spanish list? The
        > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
        > stays english only. I
        > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
        > would be abandoned fairly
        > quickly.
        >
        > -Mark
        >
        > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello:
        > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
        > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
        > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
        > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
        > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
        > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
        > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
        > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
        > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
        > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
        > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
        > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
        > > EditPlus.
        > >
        > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
        > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
        > > speakers will. Should there be other
        > > language-specific lists (say,
        > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
        > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
        > > exist already?)
        > >
        > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
        > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
        > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
        > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
        > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
        > >
        > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
        > > -dZ.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > http://www.editplus.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ellen Papenburg
        Wat zeg je nu? Mag dat niet? oooo???? ;-) :-P Ellen in Canada (but from Holland originally)
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
          Wat zeg je nu? Mag dat niet? oooo????

          ;-) :-P

          Ellen in Canada (but from Holland originally)

          Mark Kahn wrote:
          > I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we
          > don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.
          >
          > At the same time, however, I don't think we should tell people that it
          > is okay to post in whatever language they want because I don't want
          > half the posts on this list to be in a dozen different languages.
          >
          > ---------------------------------------
          > Mark Kahn
          >
          > http://a.sparag.us
          > Web 2.0 Data Management
          > ---------------------------------------
          > Sent from my iPod Touch
          >
          > On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..." <dz@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >> Mark,
          >> I agree with your comment. However, the question
          >> then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
          >> happens to post in a different language? In such
          >> case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
          >> The worst scenario being that the message goes
          >> completely ignored and the poster has to either
          >> acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
          >> machine-translated) English.
          >>
          >> That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
          >> Some people think that posting in any other language
          >> than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
          >> And this is very much dependent on the community
          >> involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
          >> it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
          >> encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
          >> problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
          >> ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
          >> understand, I could offer help.
          >>
          >> That said, I will not, however, encourage
          >> cross-language posting if my fellow list members
          >> object to it.
          >>
          >> Sincerely,
          >> -dZ.
          >>
          >>
          >>> ------- Original Message -------
          >>>
          >> >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
          >>
          >>> Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
          >>> To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
          >>> Cc :
          >>> Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
          >>>
          >> etiquette question
          >>
          >>> I have no problem helping people with poor english,
          >>>
          >> but there's no possible
          >> way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
          >> post from someone that
          >> asked a question in cantonese.
          >>
          >> There are so many free translation services out there
          >> that I believe
          >> non-english speaking people should translate posts
          >> into english and then
          >> translate the responses back in order to read them.
          >> Translation services
          >> may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
          >> seen a translation from
          >> one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
          >>
          >> I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
          >> the possible exception
          >> of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
          >> this list if you ask
          >> in any language other than english. If I went to a
          >> german or chinese forum
          >> or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
          >> necessarily expect people
          >> to answer me.
          >>
          >> The problem with foreign language lists is the user
          >> base. We have maybe a
          >> dozen people on the english list that will actively
          >> answer a question.
          >> You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
          >> spanish list? The
          >> quality of the list will just be better overall if it
          >> stays english only. I
          >> can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
          >> would be abandoned fairly
          >> quickly.
          >>
          >> -Mark
          >>
          >> On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>> Hello:
          >>> As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
          >>> users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
          >>> a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
          >>> these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
          >>> English? I understand that if someone posts in a
          >>> foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
          >>> of resources is limited, as not all members of the
          >>> list will be able to participate in the discussion.
          >>> On the other hand, for those who can't properly
          >>> communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
          >>> practical situation), being prevented from posting to
          >>> the list will certainly affect their ability to use
          >>> EditPlus.
          >>>
          >>> On the one hand, English speakers will be
          >>> alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
          >>> speakers will. Should there be other
          >>> language-specific lists (say,
          >>> editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
          >>>
          >> <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
          >>
          >>> exist already?)
          >>>
          >>> I speak both English and Spanish, and could
          >>> participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
          >>> good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
          >>> Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
          >>> Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
          >>>
          >>> I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
          >>> -dZ.
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >> http://www.editplus.com
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.editplus.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • dz@caribe.net
          Mark, I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last message implied that there wouldn t be much multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or French,
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
            Mark,
            I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last
            message implied that there wouldn't be much
            multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or
            French, and that even additional lists would be
            overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree
            with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it
            ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list,
            then additional language-specific lists can be spawned.

            I personally do not mind taking this attitude,
            and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging
            users to post in their native language -- with no
            guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only
            the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
            in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
            (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose
            this on any other active member of this list,
            especially those that participate often, such as
            yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from
            the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on
            this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't
            hurt it.

            That said, I'd understand if you or any other
            members have any reservations for this; and that's
            your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of
            fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists
            of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral
            topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist,
            and all will be well with the world.

            Cheers!
            -dZ.


            >------- Original Message -------
            >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
            >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
            >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
            >Cc :
            >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
            etiquette question
            >
            >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
            post as long as we
            don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

            At the same time, however, I don't think we should
            tell people that it
            is okay to post in whatever language they want
            because I don't want
            half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
            different languages.

            ---------------------------------------
            Mark Kahn

            http://a.sparag.us
            Web 2.0 Data Management
            ---------------------------------------
            Sent from my iPod Touch

            On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
            <dz@...> wrote:

            > Mark,
            > I agree with your comment. However, the question
            > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
            > happens to post in a different language? In such
            > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
            > The worst scenario being that the message goes
            > completely ignored and the poster has to either
            > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
            > machine-translated) English.
            >
            > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
            > Some people think that posting in any other language
            > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
            > And this is very much dependent on the community
            > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
            > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
            > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
            > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
            > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
            > understand, I could offer help.
            >
            > That said, I will not, however, encourage
            > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
            > object to it.
            >
            > Sincerely,
            > -dZ.
            >
            > >------- Original Message -------
            > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
            > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
            > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
            > >Cc :
            > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
            > etiquette question
            > >
            > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
            > but there's no possible
            > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
            > post from someone that
            > asked a question in cantonese.
            >
            > There are so many free translation services out there
            > that I believe
            > non-english speaking people should translate posts
            > into english and then
            > translate the responses back in order to read them.
            > Translation services
            > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
            > seen a translation from
            > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
            >
            > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
            > the possible exception
            > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
            > this list if you ask
            > in any language other than english. If I went to a
            > german or chinese forum
            > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
            > necessarily expect people
            > to answer me.
            >
            > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
            > base. We have maybe a
            > dozen people on the english list that will actively
            > answer a question.
            > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
            > spanish list? The
            > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
            > stays english only. I
            > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
            > would be abandoned fairly
            > quickly.
            >
            > -Mark
            >
            > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello:
            > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
            > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
            > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
            > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
            > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
            > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
            > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
            > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
            > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
            > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
            > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
            > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
            > > EditPlus.
            > >
            > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
            > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
            > > speakers will. Should there be other
            > > language-specific lists (say,
            > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
            > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
            > > exist already?)
            > >
            > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
            > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
            > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
            > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
            > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
            > >
            > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
            > > -dZ.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > http://www.editplus.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            http://www.editplus.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • dz@caribe.net
            P.S. Who s mona naeem anyway? Did I miss a joke? -dZ. ... etiquette question ... post as long as we don t get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem. At
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
              P.S. Who's "mona naeem" anyway? Did I miss a joke?

              -dZ.


              >------- Original Message -------
              >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
              >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
              >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
              >Cc :
              >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
              etiquette question
              >
              >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
              post as long as we
              don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

              At the same time, however, I don't think we should
              tell people that it
              is okay to post in whatever language they want
              because I don't want
              half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
              different languages.

              ---------------------------------------
              Mark Kahn

              http://a.sparag.us
              Web 2.0 Data Management
              ---------------------------------------
              Sent from my iPod Touch

              On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
              <dz@...> wrote:

              > Mark,
              > I agree with your comment. However, the question
              > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
              > happens to post in a different language? In such
              > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
              > The worst scenario being that the message goes
              > completely ignored and the poster has to either
              > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
              > machine-translated) English.
              >
              > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
              > Some people think that posting in any other language
              > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
              > And this is very much dependent on the community
              > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
              > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
              > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
              > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
              > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
              > understand, I could offer help.
              >
              > That said, I will not, however, encourage
              > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
              > object to it.
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > -dZ.
              >
              > >------- Original Message -------
              > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
              > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
              > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
              > >Cc :
              > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
              > etiquette question
              > >
              > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
              > but there's no possible
              > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
              > post from someone that
              > asked a question in cantonese.
              >
              > There are so many free translation services out there
              > that I believe
              > non-english speaking people should translate posts
              > into english and then
              > translate the responses back in order to read them.
              > Translation services
              > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
              > seen a translation from
              > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
              >
              > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
              > the possible exception
              > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
              > this list if you ask
              > in any language other than english. If I went to a
              > german or chinese forum
              > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
              > necessarily expect people
              > to answer me.
              >
              > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
              > base. We have maybe a
              > dozen people on the english list that will actively
              > answer a question.
              > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
              > spanish list? The
              > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
              > stays english only. I
              > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
              > would be abandoned fairly
              > quickly.
              >
              > -Mark
              >
              > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello:
              > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
              > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
              > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
              > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
              > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
              > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
              > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
              > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
              > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
              > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
              > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
              > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
              > > EditPlus.
              > >
              > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
              > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
              > > speakers will. Should there be other
              > > language-specific lists (say,
              > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
              > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
              > > exist already?)
              > >
              > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
              > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
              > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
              > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
              > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
              > >
              > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
              > > -dZ.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > http://www.editplus.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              http://www.editplus.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Richard Grevers
              On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:19:14 +1300, Mark Kahn gave ... On the other hand, if you post your question in your own language plus a
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:19:14 +1300, Mark Kahn <cwolves@...> gave
                utterance to the following:

                > I have no problem helping people with poor english, but there's no
                > possible
                > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a post from someone
                > that
                > asked a question in cantonese.
                >
                > There are so many free translation services out there that I believe
                > non-english speaking people should translate posts into english and then
                > translate the responses back in order to read them. Translation services
                > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years) seen a translation
                > from
                > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
                >
                > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with the possible
                > exception
                > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on this list if you
                > ask
                > in any language other than english. If I went to a german or chinese
                > forum
                > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't necessarily expect
                > people
                > to answer me.
                >
                On the other hand, if you post your question in your own language plus a
                machine-assisted translation to English, you have the best chance of
                getting a good answer. English-only speakers aren't excluded, and people
                who speak the language have a better chance to understand what you really
                mean.

                --
                Richard Grevers
                əɹəɥdsļɯəɥ uɹəɥʇnosəɥʇ uļ
              • Ellen Papenburg
                hahaha, Richard, I love your signature! Yes, preferably people should put the original language along with the.... uhm lost in translation text . Because
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                  hahaha, Richard, I love your signature!

                  Yes, preferably people should put the original language along with
                  the.... uhm "lost in translation text". Because otherwise it might cause
                  unnecessary confusion.

                  Did any of you ever seriously look at these translation programs? Just
                  try it, throw a message through the translator and then throw that back
                  to be translated to English and in most cases it won't look quite like
                  what you wrote originally. It's good for a big wholehearted belly chuckle!

                  Cheers,

                  Ellen

                  Richard Grevers wrote:
                  > On the other hand, if you post your question in your own language plus a
                  > machine-assisted translation to English, you have the best chance of
                  > getting a good answer. English-only speakers aren't excluded, and people
                  > who speak the language have a better chance to understand what you really
                  > mean.
                  >
                  >
                • dz@caribe.net
                  Your message, from English- French- German- English: Each supervised always seriously these programs of the translation? Fair attempt introduces a report with
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                    Your message, from English->French->German->English:

                    "Each supervised always seriously these programs of
                    the translation? Fair attempt introduces a report
                    with the help of the translator and leads that again
                    translated to it at the Englishman, and in the
                    majority of the cases it will not necessarily
                    supervise, which you at the beginning have written.
                    It is good for a large sincere drowned laughter of
                    the belly!"

                    I should adopt this as my new sigblock:
                    "It is good for a large sincere drowned laughter of
                    the belly!"

                    Ha, ha, ha!

                    -dZ.

                    >------- Original Message -------
                    >From : Ellen Papenburg[mailto:ellen@...]
                    >Sent : 11/5/2007 5:12:38 PM
                    >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                    >Cc :
                    >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                    etiquette question
                    >
                    >hahaha, Richard, I love your signature!

                    Yes, preferably people should put the original
                    language along with
                    the.... uhm "lost in translation text". Because
                    otherwise it might cause
                    unnecessary confusion.

                    Did any of you ever seriously look at these
                    translation programs? Just
                    try it, throw a message through the translator and
                    then throw that back
                    to be translated to English and in most cases it
                    won't look quite like
                    what you wrote originally. It's good for a big
                    wholehearted belly chuckle!

                    Cheers,

                    Ellen

                    Richard Grevers wrote:
                    > On the other hand, if you post your question in
                    your own language plus a
                    > machine-assisted translation to English, you have
                    the best chance of
                    > getting a good answer. English-only speakers aren't
                    excluded, and people
                    > who speak the language have a better chance to
                    understand what you really
                    > mean.
                    >
                    >


                    http://www.editplus.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • mattlavinder@data-management.com
                    ... I totally agree with you on this issue. People should most definitely not lash out or insult someone for posting in a language other than English. I don t
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                      > only the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
                      > in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                      > (as happens in other lists).
                      I totally agree with you on this issue. People should most definitely not
                      lash out or insult someone for posting in a language other than English.
                      I don't mind what occurred today because it is rare. I'm fine if people
                      occasionally help out others in another language as long as it is also
                      made clear, respectively, that the group's official language is English.
                      Just my two cents...




                      "dz@..." <dz@...>
                      Sent by: editplus@yahoogroups.com
                      11/05/2007 03:50 PM
                      Please respond to
                      editplus@yahoogroups.com


                      To
                      editplus@yahoogroups.com
                      cc

                      Subject
                      Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question









                      Mark,
                      I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last
                      message implied that there wouldn't be much
                      multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or
                      French, and that even additional lists would be
                      overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree
                      with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it
                      ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list,
                      then additional language-specific lists can be spawned.

                      I personally do not mind taking this attitude,
                      and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging
                      users to post in their native language -- with no
                      guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only
                      the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
                      in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                      (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose
                      this on any other active member of this list,
                      especially those that participate often, such as
                      yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from
                      the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on
                      this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't
                      hurt it.

                      That said, I'd understand if you or any other
                      members have any reservations for this; and that's
                      your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of
                      fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists
                      of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral
                      topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist,
                      and all will be well with the world.

                      Cheers!
                      -dZ.

                      >------- Original Message -------
                      >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
                      >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
                      >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                      >Cc :
                      >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                      etiquette question
                      >
                      >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
                      post as long as we
                      don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

                      At the same time, however, I don't think we should
                      tell people that it
                      is okay to post in whatever language they want
                      because I don't want
                      half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
                      different languages.

                      ---------------------------------------
                      Mark Kahn

                      http://a.sparag.us
                      Web 2.0 Data Management
                      ---------------------------------------
                      Sent from my iPod Touch

                      On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
                      <dz@...> wrote:

                      > Mark,
                      > I agree with your comment. However, the question
                      > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
                      > happens to post in a different language? In such
                      > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
                      > The worst scenario being that the message goes
                      > completely ignored and the poster has to either
                      > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
                      > machine-translated) English.
                      >
                      > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
                      > Some people think that posting in any other language
                      > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
                      > And this is very much dependent on the community
                      > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
                      > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
                      > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
                      > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
                      > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
                      > understand, I could offer help.
                      >
                      > That said, I will not, however, encourage
                      > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
                      > object to it.
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      > -dZ.
                      >
                      > >------- Original Message -------
                      > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
                      > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
                      > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Cc :
                      > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                      > etiquette question
                      > >
                      > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
                      > but there's no possible
                      > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
                      > post from someone that
                      > asked a question in cantonese.
                      >
                      > There are so many free translation services out there
                      > that I believe
                      > non-english speaking people should translate posts
                      > into english and then
                      > translate the responses back in order to read them.
                      > Translation services
                      > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
                      > seen a translation from
                      > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
                      >
                      > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
                      > the possible exception
                      > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
                      > this list if you ask
                      > in any language other than english. If I went to a
                      > german or chinese forum
                      > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
                      > necessarily expect people
                      > to answer me.
                      >
                      > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
                      > base. We have maybe a
                      > dozen people on the english list that will actively
                      > answer a question.
                      > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
                      > spanish list? The
                      > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
                      > stays english only. I
                      > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
                      > would be abandoned fairly
                      > quickly.
                      >
                      > -Mark
                      >
                      > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello:
                      > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
                      > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
                      > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
                      > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
                      > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
                      > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
                      > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
                      > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
                      > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
                      > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
                      > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
                      > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
                      > > EditPlus.
                      > >
                      > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
                      > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
                      > > speakers will. Should there be other
                      > > language-specific lists (say,
                      > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
                      > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
                      > > exist already?)
                      > >
                      > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
                      > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
                      > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
                      > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
                      > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
                      > >
                      > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
                      > > -dZ.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > http://www.editplus.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      http://www.editplus.com
                      Yahoo! Groups Links




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Andrew
                      G day mates, I m learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that could help anyone. ;-) Stay safe, luv you all. I say we should help anyone who needs it,
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                        G'day mates,

                        I'm learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that could help
                        anyone. ;-)
                        Stay safe, luv you all.

                        I say we should help anyone who needs it, if things get out of control and
                        the posts start coming through thick and fast then we should sort it out
                        at that time.

                        Hey dZ you totally rule, I see your name everywhere.

                        Andrew.
                        **
                      • Nisha Sohail
                        just remove my id from this group!! To: editplus@yahoogroups.comFrom: mr_aprice@yahoo.com.auDate: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:21:41 +1100Subject: Re: [edit+]
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                          just remove my id from this group!!

                          To: editplus@yahoogroups.comFrom: mr_aprice@...: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:21:41 +1100Subject: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question




                          G'day mates,I'm learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that could help anyone. ;-)Stay safe, luv you all.I say we should help anyone who needs it, if things get out of control andthe posts start coming through thick and fast then we should sort it outat that time.Hey dZ you totally rule, I see your name everywhere.Andrew.**






                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au
                          http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_Future&_m=EXT

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • dz@caribe.net
                          Ok, then. The only language I object to is l33t sp34k and txting . Anybody who posts something like: I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+ -kthx (I see
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                            Ok, then. The only "language" I object to is "l33t
                            sp34k" and "txting". Anybody who posts something like:

                            I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+
                            -kthx

                            (I see this on other serious lists)

                            will not be getting an answer from me! :)

                            -dZ.

                            >------- Original Message -------
                            >From :
                            mattlavinder@...[mailto:mattlavinder@...]
                            >Sent : 11/5/2007 5:46:43 PM
                            >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                            >Cc :
                            >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                            etiquette question
                            >
                            >> only the removal of any perceive stigma that
                            posts must be
                            > in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                            > (as happens in other lists).
                            I totally agree with you on this issue. People
                            should most definitely not
                            lash out or insult someone for posting in a language
                            other than English.
                            I don't mind what occurred today because it is rare.
                            I'm fine if people
                            occasionally help out others in another language as
                            long as it is also
                            made clear, respectively, that the group's official
                            language is English.
                            Just my two cents...




                            "dz@..." <dz@...>
                            Sent by: editplus@yahoogroups.com
                            11/05/2007 03:50 PM
                            Please respond to
                            editplus@yahoogroups.com


                            To
                            editplus@yahoogroups.com
                            cc

                            Subject
                            Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question









                            Mark,
                            I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last
                            message implied that there wouldn't be much
                            multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or
                            French, and that even additional lists would be
                            overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree
                            with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it
                            ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list,
                            then additional language-specific lists can be spawned.

                            I personally do not mind taking this attitude,
                            and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging
                            users to post in their native language -- with no
                            guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only
                            the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
                            in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                            (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose
                            this on any other active member of this list,
                            especially those that participate often, such as
                            yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from
                            the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on
                            this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't
                            hurt it.

                            That said, I'd understand if you or any other
                            members have any reservations for this; and that's
                            your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of
                            fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists
                            of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral
                            topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist,
                            and all will be well with the world.

                            Cheers!
                            -dZ.

                            >------- Original Message -------
                            >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
                            >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
                            >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                            >Cc :
                            >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                            etiquette question
                            >
                            >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
                            post as long as we
                            don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

                            At the same time, however, I don't think we should
                            tell people that it
                            is okay to post in whatever language they want
                            because I don't want
                            half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
                            different languages.

                            ---------------------------------------
                            Mark Kahn

                            http://a.sparag.us
                            Web 2.0 Data Management
                            ---------------------------------------
                            Sent from my iPod Touch

                            On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
                            <dz@...> wrote:

                            > Mark,
                            > I agree with your comment. However, the question
                            > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
                            > happens to post in a different language? In such
                            > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
                            > The worst scenario being that the message goes
                            > completely ignored and the poster has to either
                            > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
                            > machine-translated) English.
                            >
                            > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
                            > Some people think that posting in any other language
                            > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
                            > And this is very much dependent on the community
                            > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
                            > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
                            > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
                            > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
                            > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
                            > understand, I could offer help.
                            >
                            > That said, I will not, however, encourage
                            > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
                            > object to it.
                            >
                            > Sincerely,
                            > -dZ.
                            >
                            > >------- Original Message -------
                            > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
                            > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
                            > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                            > >Cc :
                            > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                            > etiquette question
                            > >
                            > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
                            > but there's no possible
                            > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
                            > post from someone that
                            > asked a question in cantonese.
                            >
                            > There are so many free translation services out there
                            > that I believe
                            > non-english speaking people should translate posts
                            > into english and then
                            > translate the responses back in order to read them.
                            > Translation services
                            > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
                            > seen a translation from
                            > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
                            >
                            > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
                            > the possible exception
                            > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
                            > this list if you ask
                            > in any language other than english. If I went to a
                            > german or chinese forum
                            > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
                            > necessarily expect people
                            > to answer me.
                            >
                            > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
                            > base. We have maybe a
                            > dozen people on the english list that will actively
                            > answer a question.
                            > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
                            > spanish list? The
                            > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
                            > stays english only. I
                            > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
                            > would be abandoned fairly
                            > quickly.
                            >
                            > -Mark
                            >
                            > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello:
                            > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
                            > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
                            > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
                            > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
                            > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
                            > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
                            > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
                            > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
                            > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
                            > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
                            > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
                            > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
                            > > EditPlus.
                            > >
                            > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
                            > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
                            > > speakers will. Should there be other
                            > > language-specific lists (say,
                            > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
                            > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
                            > > exist already?)
                            > >
                            > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
                            > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
                            > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
                            > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
                            > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
                            > >
                            > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
                            > > -dZ.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > http://www.editplus.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            http://www.editplus.com
                            Yahoo! Groups Links




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            http://www.editplus.com
                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Richard Grevers
                            On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:07:12 +1300, dz@caribe.net gave ... Indeed. Actually, the biggest breach of ettiquette today is that several people have
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                              On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:07:12 +1300, dz@... <dz@...> gave
                              utterance to the following:

                              > Ok, then. The only "language" I object to is "l33t
                              > sp34k" and "txting". Anybody who posts something like:
                              >
                              > I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+
                              > -kthx
                              >
                              > (I see this on other serious lists)
                              >
                              > will not be getting an answer from me! :)
                              >
                              Indeed.
                              Actually, the biggest breach of ettiquette today is that several people
                              have been guilty of inadequate trimming of quoted text. (As if Yahoo
                              doesn't already add enough dead weight to messages!)


                              --
                              Richard Grevers
                              əɹəɥdsļɯəɥ uɹəɥʇnosəɥʇ uļ
                            • Perminov Vladimir
                              Well, I don t mind. I just wonder will it be able to display non-latin text. Let s see. тест τηστ テスト
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
                                Well, I don't mind. I just wonder will it be able to display non-latin text. Let's see.
                                тест
                                τηστ
                                テスト
                              • Perminov Vladimir
                                Hmm... Works :)
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
                                  Hmm... Works :)
                                • ask@avenarius.sk
                                  On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 02:48:16 (GMT +0300), ... It works all right in email messages* as long as: o you properly encode your message (preferably in
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
                                    On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 02:48:16 (GMT +0300),
                                    which was 9:45 a.m. in Bratislava, Slovakia, Perminov Vladimir wrote:

                                    > Hmm... Works :)

                                    It works all right in email messages* as long as:

                                    o you properly encode your message (preferably in UTF-8)

                                    o your recipient uses good-quality email software to read youor post

                                    o your recipient happens to use a font to read his/her email that
                                    contains all the letters you happened to use.

                                    So, that's quite a bunch of pitfalls for multi-lingual email users in 2007.

                                    Your test worked fine for me, but Richard's signature, called witty by
                                    some, partially displays as a series of empty boxes for me -- apparently
                                    whatever letters Richard uses are not included in the Georgia font
                                    I employ to read my emails.

                                    * Yahoo! Groups webpages are especially woeful in not supporting UTF-8
                                    universally in 2007. Your test message will not be displayed correctly
                                    on the Yahoo! Group webpage for EditPlus unless you manually adjust
                                    your browser View settings (to UTF-8), which will disrupt the display
                                    of *other* messages. Also, there are problems if a Yahoo! Groups
                                    footer contains diacritic letters -- this will make the display of the
                                    *content* of messages to become garbled in some instances. The only
                                    way to avoid this is to use only ASCII letters in customized Yahoo!
                                    Groups footers. Finally, Yahoo! Groups daily digest messages are a
                                    travesty as well and cannot cope with messages submitted in various
                                    encodings -- it will attempt to re-encode all of them to a single
                                    enconding, making many of them unreadable as a result.

                                    --
                                    Yours,
                                    Alex.
                                    www.avenarius.sk

                                    [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06
                                    EditPlus 2.30 (286) / WinXP 5.1 b2600 SP 2]
                                  • Bronius Motekaitis
                                    Wow, this thread has grown.. I thought it would just kind of fade away with a few sure, if people want to post and feel most comfortable in their native
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
                                      Wow, this thread has grown.. I thought it would just kind of fade away with
                                      a few "sure, if people want to post and feel most comfortable in their
                                      native languages, so be it, with the understanding that English is
                                      (fortunately for most!) the predominant language in which one would get the
                                      most responses..."

                                      Alex-
                                      Attached is a png of the clever signature.. It was worth capturing ;)
                                      -bronius


                                      On 11/6/07, ask@... <ask@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 02:48:16 (GMT +0300),
                                      > which was 9:45 a.m. in Bratislava, Slovakia, Perminov Vladimir wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Hmm... Works :)
                                      >
                                      > It works all right in email messages* as long as:
                                      >
                                      > o you properly encode your message (preferably in UTF-8)
                                      >
                                      > o your recipient uses good-quality email software to read youor post
                                      >
                                      > o your recipient happens to use a font to read his/her email that
                                      > contains all the letters you happened to use.
                                      >
                                      > So, that's quite a bunch of pitfalls for multi-lingual email users in
                                      > 2007.
                                      >
                                      > Your test worked fine for me, but Richard's signature, called witty by
                                      > some, partially displays as a series of empty boxes for me -- apparently
                                      > whatever letters Richard uses are not included in the Georgia font
                                      > I employ to read my emails.
                                      >
                                      > * Yahoo! Groups webpages are especially woeful in not supporting UTF-8
                                      > universally in 2007. Your test message will not be displayed correctly
                                      > on the Yahoo! Group webpage for EditPlus unless you manually adjust
                                      > your browser View settings (to UTF-8), which will disrupt the display
                                      > of *other* messages. Also, there are problems if a Yahoo! Groups
                                      > footer contains diacritic letters -- this will make the display of the
                                      > *content* of messages to become garbled in some instances. The only
                                      > way to avoid this is to use only ASCII letters in customized Yahoo!
                                      > Groups footers. Finally, Yahoo! Groups daily digest messages are a
                                      > travesty as well and cannot cope with messages submitted in various
                                      > encodings -- it will attempt to re-encode all of them to a single
                                      > enconding, making many of them unreadable as a result.
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Yours,
                                      > Alex.
                                      > www.avenarius.sk
                                      >
                                      > [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06
                                      > EditPlus 2.30 (286) / WinXP 5.1 b2600 SP 2]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • ask@avenarius.sk
                                      On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 09:23:39 (GMT -0600), ... Thanks for trying! ;-))) Anyway, I was wrong in my haste... The signatures, in my email software,
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
                                        On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 09:23:39 (GMT -0600),
                                        which was 16:23 in Bratislava, Slovakia, Bronius Motekaitis wrote:

                                        >> Attached is a png of the clever signature.. It was worth capturing ;)

                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                        Thanks for trying! ;-)))

                                        Anyway, I was wrong in my haste... The signatures, in my email software,
                                        are not displayed in the Georgia font (as I believe that one is fully UTF-8
                                        capable?) but in Arial. And, there are various versions of Arial. So,
                                        after I switched the display of signatures from "ordinary" Arial
                                        to "Arial Unicode MS", Richard's signature became legible. :-)

                                        For the benefit of those who may be following this thread via the
                                        Yahoo! Groups webpage where the display of UTF-8 is messed up, here's
                                        a screenshot of Richard's signature from my email software:

                                        http://avenarius.sk/misc/richard-g_signature.gif

                                        --
                                        Yours,
                                        Alex.
                                        www.avenarius.sk

                                        [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06
                                        EditPlus 2.30 (286) / WinXP 5.1 b2600 SP 2]
                                      • Perminov Vladimir
                                        ... Oh, yes... I knew something won t work. I was unsure what exactly. That is all american sites work. They handle utf-8 as long as it is nearly
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Nov 9, 2007
                                          >Your test message will not be displayed correctly
                                          >on the Yahoo! Group webpage

                                          Oh, yes... I knew something won't work. I was unsure what exactly. That is all american sites work. They handle utf-8 as long as it is nearly ascii-compatible.
                                        • Andrew
                                          Was it something I said????**
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Nov 16, 2007
                                            Was it something I said????**


                                            Nisha Sohail wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > just remove my id from this group!!
                                            >
                                            > To: editplus@yahoogroups.comFrom
                                            > <mailto:editplus%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: mr_aprice@...
                                            > <mailto:mr_aprice%40yahoo.com.auDate>: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:21:41
                                            > +1100Subject: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question
                                            >
                                            > G'day mates,I'm learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that
                                            > could help anyone. ;-)Stay safe, luv you all.I say we should help
                                            > anyone who needs it, if things get out of control andthe posts start
                                            > coming through thick and fast then we should sort it outat that
                                            > time.Hey dZ you totally rule, I see your name everywhere.Andrew.**
                                            >
                                            > __________________________________________________________
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                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
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