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Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question

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  • dz@caribe.net
    Mark, I agree with your comment. However, the question then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone happens to post in a different language? In such
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Mark,
      I agree with your comment. However, the question
      then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
      happens to post in a different language? In such
      case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
      The worst scenario being that the message goes
      completely ignored and the poster has to either
      acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
      machine-translated) English.

      That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
      Some people think that posting in any other language
      than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
      And this is very much dependent on the community
      involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
      it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
      encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
      problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
      ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
      understand, I could offer help.

      That said, I will not, however, encourage
      cross-language posting if my fellow list members
      object to it.

      Sincerely,
      -dZ.



      >------- Original Message -------
      >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
      >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
      >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
      >Cc :
      >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
      etiquette question
      >
      >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
      but there's no possible
      way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
      post from someone that
      asked a question in cantonese.

      There are so many free translation services out there
      that I believe
      non-english speaking people should translate posts
      into english and then
      translate the responses back in order to read them.
      Translation services
      may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
      seen a translation from
      one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.

      I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
      the possible exception
      of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
      this list if you ask
      in any language other than english. If I went to a
      german or chinese forum
      or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
      necessarily expect people
      to answer me.

      The problem with foreign language lists is the user
      base. We have maybe a
      dozen people on the english list that will actively
      answer a question.
      You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
      spanish list? The
      quality of the list will just be better overall if it
      stays english only. I
      can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
      would be abandoned fairly
      quickly.

      -Mark

      On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello:
      > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
      > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
      > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
      > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
      > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
      > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
      > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
      > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
      > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
      > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
      > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
      > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
      > EditPlus.
      >
      > On the one hand, English speakers will be
      > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
      > speakers will. Should there be other
      > language-specific lists (say,
      > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
      <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
      > exist already?)
      >
      > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
      > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
      > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
      > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
      > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
      >
      > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
      > -dZ.
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      http://www.editplus.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Toft Stade
      I second that. If any posts show up in swedish, danish or norwegian I ll do my best to give bi-lingual answers :) /Toft ... From: editplus@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        I second that.
        If any posts show up in swedish, danish or norwegian I'll do my best to give bi-lingual
        answers :)
        /Toft

        -----Original Message-----
        From: editplus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:editplus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bronius
        Motekaitis
        Sent: den 5 november 2007 18:59
        To: editplus@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question

        I'm all in favor of multi-lingual posting. Specific-language forums reduce a large pool
        of helpers and helped. I do like the way you (dZ) made a Spanish/English reply. Good
        usability :)

        Most topics are Q/A form, so just like we learn to ignore some questions that don't
        pertain, we can also easily ignore the few non-[native-language] questions and move on. I
        don't think you'll find a huge bombardment of non-english posting. If we do, then we can
        reconsider branching off a separate forum (like editplus-es).

        And there's always Google Translate to help the very most ambitious who feel they have to
        respond to every email.

        my two pesos
        -bronius


        On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello:
        > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus users whom are not
        > native English speakers. Is there a specific etiquette rule that
        > should be observed for these instances? I mean, should the list be
        > ONLY in English? I understand that if someone posts in a foreign
        > language, even if someone replies, their pool of resources is limited,
        > as not all members of the list will be able to participate in the
        > discussion.
        > On the other hand, for those who can't properly communicate in English
        > (or have trouble doing so in a practical situation), being prevented
        > from posting to the list will certainly affect their ability to use
        > EditPlus.
        >
        > On the one hand, English speakers will be alienated from discussions;
        > on the other, non-English speakers will. Should there be other
        > language-specific lists (say, editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
        > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they exist already?)
        >
        > I speak both English and Spanish, and could participate on both lists
        > if necessary, but is it good practice, or should we stick to the
        > single list?
        > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside Spanish and
        > English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
        >
        > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
        > -dZ.
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        http://www.editplus.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Mark Kahn
        I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we don t get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem. At the same time, however, I don t
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we
          don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

          At the same time, however, I don't think we should tell people that it
          is okay to post in whatever language they want because I don't want
          half the posts on this list to be in a dozen different languages.

          ---------------------------------------
          Mark Kahn

          http://a.sparag.us
          Web 2.0 Data Management
          ---------------------------------------
          Sent from my iPod Touch

          On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..." <dz@...> wrote:

          > Mark,
          > I agree with your comment. However, the question
          > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
          > happens to post in a different language? In such
          > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
          > The worst scenario being that the message goes
          > completely ignored and the poster has to either
          > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
          > machine-translated) English.
          >
          > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
          > Some people think that posting in any other language
          > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
          > And this is very much dependent on the community
          > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
          > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
          > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
          > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
          > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
          > understand, I could offer help.
          >
          > That said, I will not, however, encourage
          > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
          > object to it.
          >
          > Sincerely,
          > -dZ.
          >
          > >------- Original Message -------
          > >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
          > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
          > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
          > >Cc :
          > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
          > etiquette question
          > >
          > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
          > but there's no possible
          > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
          > post from someone that
          > asked a question in cantonese.
          >
          > There are so many free translation services out there
          > that I believe
          > non-english speaking people should translate posts
          > into english and then
          > translate the responses back in order to read them.
          > Translation services
          > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
          > seen a translation from
          > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
          >
          > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
          > the possible exception
          > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
          > this list if you ask
          > in any language other than english. If I went to a
          > german or chinese forum
          > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
          > necessarily expect people
          > to answer me.
          >
          > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
          > base. We have maybe a
          > dozen people on the english list that will actively
          > answer a question.
          > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
          > spanish list? The
          > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
          > stays english only. I
          > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
          > would be abandoned fairly
          > quickly.
          >
          > -Mark
          >
          > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello:
          > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
          > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
          > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
          > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
          > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
          > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
          > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
          > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
          > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
          > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
          > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
          > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
          > > EditPlus.
          > >
          > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
          > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
          > > speakers will. Should there be other
          > > language-specific lists (say,
          > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
          > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
          > > exist already?)
          > >
          > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
          > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
          > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
          > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
          > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
          > >
          > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
          > > -dZ.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > http://www.editplus.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ellen Papenburg
          Wat zeg je nu? Mag dat niet? oooo???? ;-) :-P Ellen in Canada (but from Holland originally)
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Wat zeg je nu? Mag dat niet? oooo????

            ;-) :-P

            Ellen in Canada (but from Holland originally)

            Mark Kahn wrote:
            > I have no problem with the occasional multilingual post as long as we
            > don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.
            >
            > At the same time, however, I don't think we should tell people that it
            > is okay to post in whatever language they want because I don't want
            > half the posts on this list to be in a dozen different languages.
            >
            > ---------------------------------------
            > Mark Kahn
            >
            > http://a.sparag.us
            > Web 2.0 Data Management
            > ---------------------------------------
            > Sent from my iPod Touch
            >
            > On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..." <dz@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >> Mark,
            >> I agree with your comment. However, the question
            >> then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
            >> happens to post in a different language? In such
            >> case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
            >> The worst scenario being that the message goes
            >> completely ignored and the poster has to either
            >> acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
            >> machine-translated) English.
            >>
            >> That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
            >> Some people think that posting in any other language
            >> than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
            >> And this is very much dependent on the community
            >> involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
            >> it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
            >> encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
            >> problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
            >> ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
            >> understand, I could offer help.
            >>
            >> That said, I will not, however, encourage
            >> cross-language posting if my fellow list members
            >> object to it.
            >>
            >> Sincerely,
            >> -dZ.
            >>
            >>
            >>> ------- Original Message -------
            >>>
            >> >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
            >>
            >>> Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
            >>> To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
            >>> Cc :
            >>> Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
            >>>
            >> etiquette question
            >>
            >>> I have no problem helping people with poor english,
            >>>
            >> but there's no possible
            >> way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
            >> post from someone that
            >> asked a question in cantonese.
            >>
            >> There are so many free translation services out there
            >> that I believe
            >> non-english speaking people should translate posts
            >> into english and then
            >> translate the responses back in order to read them.
            >> Translation services
            >> may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
            >> seen a translation from
            >> one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
            >>
            >> I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
            >> the possible exception
            >> of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
            >> this list if you ask
            >> in any language other than english. If I went to a
            >> german or chinese forum
            >> or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
            >> necessarily expect people
            >> to answer me.
            >>
            >> The problem with foreign language lists is the user
            >> base. We have maybe a
            >> dozen people on the english list that will actively
            >> answer a question.
            >> You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
            >> spanish list? The
            >> quality of the list will just be better overall if it
            >> stays english only. I
            >> can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
            >> would be abandoned fairly
            >> quickly.
            >>
            >> -Mark
            >>
            >> On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>> Hello:
            >>> As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
            >>> users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
            >>> a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
            >>> these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
            >>> English? I understand that if someone posts in a
            >>> foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
            >>> of resources is limited, as not all members of the
            >>> list will be able to participate in the discussion.
            >>> On the other hand, for those who can't properly
            >>> communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
            >>> practical situation), being prevented from posting to
            >>> the list will certainly affect their ability to use
            >>> EditPlus.
            >>>
            >>> On the one hand, English speakers will be
            >>> alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
            >>> speakers will. Should there be other
            >>> language-specific lists (say,
            >>> editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
            >>>
            >> <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
            >>
            >>> exist already?)
            >>>
            >>> I speak both English and Spanish, and could
            >>> participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
            >>> good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
            >>> Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
            >>> Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
            >>>
            >>> I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
            >>> -dZ.
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >> http://www.editplus.com
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > http://www.editplus.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • dz@caribe.net
            Mark, I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last message implied that there wouldn t be much multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or French,
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Mark,
              I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last
              message implied that there wouldn't be much
              multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or
              French, and that even additional lists would be
              overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree
              with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it
              ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list,
              then additional language-specific lists can be spawned.

              I personally do not mind taking this attitude,
              and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging
              users to post in their native language -- with no
              guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only
              the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
              in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
              (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose
              this on any other active member of this list,
              especially those that participate often, such as
              yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from
              the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on
              this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't
              hurt it.

              That said, I'd understand if you or any other
              members have any reservations for this; and that's
              your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of
              fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists
              of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral
              topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist,
              and all will be well with the world.

              Cheers!
              -dZ.


              >------- Original Message -------
              >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
              >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
              >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
              >Cc :
              >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
              etiquette question
              >
              >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
              post as long as we
              don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

              At the same time, however, I don't think we should
              tell people that it
              is okay to post in whatever language they want
              because I don't want
              half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
              different languages.

              ---------------------------------------
              Mark Kahn

              http://a.sparag.us
              Web 2.0 Data Management
              ---------------------------------------
              Sent from my iPod Touch

              On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
              <dz@...> wrote:

              > Mark,
              > I agree with your comment. However, the question
              > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
              > happens to post in a different language? In such
              > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
              > The worst scenario being that the message goes
              > completely ignored and the poster has to either
              > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
              > machine-translated) English.
              >
              > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
              > Some people think that posting in any other language
              > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
              > And this is very much dependent on the community
              > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
              > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
              > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
              > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
              > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
              > understand, I could offer help.
              >
              > That said, I will not, however, encourage
              > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
              > object to it.
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > -dZ.
              >
              > >------- Original Message -------
              > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
              > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
              > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
              > >Cc :
              > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
              > etiquette question
              > >
              > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
              > but there's no possible
              > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
              > post from someone that
              > asked a question in cantonese.
              >
              > There are so many free translation services out there
              > that I believe
              > non-english speaking people should translate posts
              > into english and then
              > translate the responses back in order to read them.
              > Translation services
              > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
              > seen a translation from
              > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
              >
              > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
              > the possible exception
              > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
              > this list if you ask
              > in any language other than english. If I went to a
              > german or chinese forum
              > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
              > necessarily expect people
              > to answer me.
              >
              > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
              > base. We have maybe a
              > dozen people on the english list that will actively
              > answer a question.
              > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
              > spanish list? The
              > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
              > stays english only. I
              > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
              > would be abandoned fairly
              > quickly.
              >
              > -Mark
              >
              > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello:
              > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
              > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
              > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
              > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
              > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
              > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
              > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
              > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
              > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
              > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
              > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
              > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
              > > EditPlus.
              > >
              > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
              > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
              > > speakers will. Should there be other
              > > language-specific lists (say,
              > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
              > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
              > > exist already?)
              > >
              > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
              > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
              > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
              > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
              > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
              > >
              > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
              > > -dZ.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > http://www.editplus.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              http://www.editplus.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • dz@caribe.net
              P.S. Who s mona naeem anyway? Did I miss a joke? -dZ. ... etiquette question ... post as long as we don t get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem. At
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                P.S. Who's "mona naeem" anyway? Did I miss a joke?

                -dZ.


                >------- Original Message -------
                >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
                >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
                >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                >Cc :
                >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                etiquette question
                >
                >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
                post as long as we
                don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

                At the same time, however, I don't think we should
                tell people that it
                is okay to post in whatever language they want
                because I don't want
                half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
                different languages.

                ---------------------------------------
                Mark Kahn

                http://a.sparag.us
                Web 2.0 Data Management
                ---------------------------------------
                Sent from my iPod Touch

                On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
                <dz@...> wrote:

                > Mark,
                > I agree with your comment. However, the question
                > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
                > happens to post in a different language? In such
                > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
                > The worst scenario being that the message goes
                > completely ignored and the poster has to either
                > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
                > machine-translated) English.
                >
                > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
                > Some people think that posting in any other language
                > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
                > And this is very much dependent on the community
                > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
                > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
                > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
                > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
                > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
                > understand, I could offer help.
                >
                > That said, I will not, however, encourage
                > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
                > object to it.
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > -dZ.
                >
                > >------- Original Message -------
                > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
                > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
                > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                > >Cc :
                > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                > etiquette question
                > >
                > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
                > but there's no possible
                > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
                > post from someone that
                > asked a question in cantonese.
                >
                > There are so many free translation services out there
                > that I believe
                > non-english speaking people should translate posts
                > into english and then
                > translate the responses back in order to read them.
                > Translation services
                > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
                > seen a translation from
                > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
                >
                > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
                > the possible exception
                > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
                > this list if you ask
                > in any language other than english. If I went to a
                > german or chinese forum
                > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
                > necessarily expect people
                > to answer me.
                >
                > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
                > base. We have maybe a
                > dozen people on the english list that will actively
                > answer a question.
                > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
                > spanish list? The
                > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
                > stays english only. I
                > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
                > would be abandoned fairly
                > quickly.
                >
                > -Mark
                >
                > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello:
                > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
                > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
                > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
                > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
                > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
                > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
                > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
                > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
                > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
                > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
                > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
                > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
                > > EditPlus.
                > >
                > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
                > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
                > > speakers will. Should there be other
                > > language-specific lists (say,
                > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
                > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
                > > exist already?)
                > >
                > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
                > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
                > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
                > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
                > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
                > >
                > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
                > > -dZ.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > http://www.editplus.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                http://www.editplus.com
                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Richard Grevers
                On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:19:14 +1300, Mark Kahn gave ... On the other hand, if you post your question in your own language plus a
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:19:14 +1300, Mark Kahn <cwolves@...> gave
                  utterance to the following:

                  > I have no problem helping people with poor english, but there's no
                  > possible
                  > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a post from someone
                  > that
                  > asked a question in cantonese.
                  >
                  > There are so many free translation services out there that I believe
                  > non-english speaking people should translate posts into english and then
                  > translate the responses back in order to read them. Translation services
                  > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years) seen a translation
                  > from
                  > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
                  >
                  > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with the possible
                  > exception
                  > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on this list if you
                  > ask
                  > in any language other than english. If I went to a german or chinese
                  > forum
                  > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't necessarily expect
                  > people
                  > to answer me.
                  >
                  On the other hand, if you post your question in your own language plus a
                  machine-assisted translation to English, you have the best chance of
                  getting a good answer. English-only speakers aren't excluded, and people
                  who speak the language have a better chance to understand what you really
                  mean.

                  --
                  Richard Grevers
                  əɹəɥdsļɯəɥ uɹəɥʇnosəɥʇ uļ
                • Ellen Papenburg
                  hahaha, Richard, I love your signature! Yes, preferably people should put the original language along with the.... uhm lost in translation text . Because
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    hahaha, Richard, I love your signature!

                    Yes, preferably people should put the original language along with
                    the.... uhm "lost in translation text". Because otherwise it might cause
                    unnecessary confusion.

                    Did any of you ever seriously look at these translation programs? Just
                    try it, throw a message through the translator and then throw that back
                    to be translated to English and in most cases it won't look quite like
                    what you wrote originally. It's good for a big wholehearted belly chuckle!

                    Cheers,

                    Ellen

                    Richard Grevers wrote:
                    > On the other hand, if you post your question in your own language plus a
                    > machine-assisted translation to English, you have the best chance of
                    > getting a good answer. English-only speakers aren't excluded, and people
                    > who speak the language have a better chance to understand what you really
                    > mean.
                    >
                    >
                  • dz@caribe.net
                    Your message, from English- French- German- English: Each supervised always seriously these programs of the translation? Fair attempt introduces a report with
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Your message, from English->French->German->English:

                      "Each supervised always seriously these programs of
                      the translation? Fair attempt introduces a report
                      with the help of the translator and leads that again
                      translated to it at the Englishman, and in the
                      majority of the cases it will not necessarily
                      supervise, which you at the beginning have written.
                      It is good for a large sincere drowned laughter of
                      the belly!"

                      I should adopt this as my new sigblock:
                      "It is good for a large sincere drowned laughter of
                      the belly!"

                      Ha, ha, ha!

                      -dZ.

                      >------- Original Message -------
                      >From : Ellen Papenburg[mailto:ellen@...]
                      >Sent : 11/5/2007 5:12:38 PM
                      >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                      >Cc :
                      >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                      etiquette question
                      >
                      >hahaha, Richard, I love your signature!

                      Yes, preferably people should put the original
                      language along with
                      the.... uhm "lost in translation text". Because
                      otherwise it might cause
                      unnecessary confusion.

                      Did any of you ever seriously look at these
                      translation programs? Just
                      try it, throw a message through the translator and
                      then throw that back
                      to be translated to English and in most cases it
                      won't look quite like
                      what you wrote originally. It's good for a big
                      wholehearted belly chuckle!

                      Cheers,

                      Ellen

                      Richard Grevers wrote:
                      > On the other hand, if you post your question in
                      your own language plus a
                      > machine-assisted translation to English, you have
                      the best chance of
                      > getting a good answer. English-only speakers aren't
                      excluded, and people
                      > who speak the language have a better chance to
                      understand what you really
                      > mean.
                      >
                      >


                      http://www.editplus.com
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • mattlavinder@data-management.com
                      ... I totally agree with you on this issue. People should most definitely not lash out or insult someone for posting in a language other than English. I don t
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > only the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
                        > in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                        > (as happens in other lists).
                        I totally agree with you on this issue. People should most definitely not
                        lash out or insult someone for posting in a language other than English.
                        I don't mind what occurred today because it is rare. I'm fine if people
                        occasionally help out others in another language as long as it is also
                        made clear, respectively, that the group's official language is English.
                        Just my two cents...




                        "dz@..." <dz@...>
                        Sent by: editplus@yahoogroups.com
                        11/05/2007 03:50 PM
                        Please respond to
                        editplus@yahoogroups.com


                        To
                        editplus@yahoogroups.com
                        cc

                        Subject
                        Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question









                        Mark,
                        I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last
                        message implied that there wouldn't be much
                        multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or
                        French, and that even additional lists would be
                        overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree
                        with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it
                        ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list,
                        then additional language-specific lists can be spawned.

                        I personally do not mind taking this attitude,
                        and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging
                        users to post in their native language -- with no
                        guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only
                        the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
                        in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                        (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose
                        this on any other active member of this list,
                        especially those that participate often, such as
                        yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from
                        the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on
                        this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't
                        hurt it.

                        That said, I'd understand if you or any other
                        members have any reservations for this; and that's
                        your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of
                        fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists
                        of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral
                        topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist,
                        and all will be well with the world.

                        Cheers!
                        -dZ.

                        >------- Original Message -------
                        >From : Mark Kahn[mailto:cwolves@...]
                        >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
                        >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                        >Cc :
                        >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                        etiquette question
                        >
                        >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
                        post as long as we
                        don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

                        At the same time, however, I don't think we should
                        tell people that it
                        is okay to post in whatever language they want
                        because I don't want
                        half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
                        different languages.

                        ---------------------------------------
                        Mark Kahn

                        http://a.sparag.us
                        Web 2.0 Data Management
                        ---------------------------------------
                        Sent from my iPod Touch

                        On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
                        <dz@...> wrote:

                        > Mark,
                        > I agree with your comment. However, the question
                        > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
                        > happens to post in a different language? In such
                        > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
                        > The worst scenario being that the message goes
                        > completely ignored and the poster has to either
                        > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
                        > machine-translated) English.
                        >
                        > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
                        > Some people think that posting in any other language
                        > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
                        > And this is very much dependent on the community
                        > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
                        > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
                        > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
                        > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
                        > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
                        > understand, I could offer help.
                        >
                        > That said, I will not, however, encourage
                        > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
                        > object to it.
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        > -dZ.
                        >
                        > >------- Original Message -------
                        > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
                        > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
                        > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                        > >Cc :
                        > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                        > etiquette question
                        > >
                        > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
                        > but there's no possible
                        > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
                        > post from someone that
                        > asked a question in cantonese.
                        >
                        > There are so many free translation services out there
                        > that I believe
                        > non-english speaking people should translate posts
                        > into english and then
                        > translate the responses back in order to read them.
                        > Translation services
                        > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
                        > seen a translation from
                        > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
                        >
                        > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
                        > the possible exception
                        > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
                        > this list if you ask
                        > in any language other than english. If I went to a
                        > german or chinese forum
                        > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
                        > necessarily expect people
                        > to answer me.
                        >
                        > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
                        > base. We have maybe a
                        > dozen people on the english list that will actively
                        > answer a question.
                        > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
                        > spanish list? The
                        > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
                        > stays english only. I
                        > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
                        > would be abandoned fairly
                        > quickly.
                        >
                        > -Mark
                        >
                        > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello:
                        > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
                        > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
                        > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
                        > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
                        > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
                        > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
                        > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
                        > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
                        > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
                        > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
                        > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
                        > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
                        > > EditPlus.
                        > >
                        > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
                        > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
                        > > speakers will. Should there be other
                        > > language-specific lists (say,
                        > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
                        > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
                        > > exist already?)
                        > >
                        > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
                        > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
                        > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
                        > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
                        > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
                        > >
                        > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
                        > > -dZ.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > http://www.editplus.com
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        http://www.editplus.com
                        Yahoo! Groups Links




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Andrew
                        G day mates, I m learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that could help anyone. ;-) Stay safe, luv you all. I say we should help anyone who needs it,
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          G'day mates,

                          I'm learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that could help
                          anyone. ;-)
                          Stay safe, luv you all.

                          I say we should help anyone who needs it, if things get out of control and
                          the posts start coming through thick and fast then we should sort it out
                          at that time.

                          Hey dZ you totally rule, I see your name everywhere.

                          Andrew.
                          **
                        • Nisha Sohail
                          just remove my id from this group!! To: editplus@yahoogroups.comFrom: mr_aprice@yahoo.com.auDate: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:21:41 +1100Subject: Re: [edit+]
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            just remove my id from this group!!

                            To: editplus@yahoogroups.comFrom: mr_aprice@...: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:21:41 +1100Subject: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question




                            G'day mates,I'm learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that could help anyone. ;-)Stay safe, luv you all.I say we should help anyone who needs it, if things get out of control andthe posts start coming through thick and fast then we should sort it outat that time.Hey dZ you totally rule, I see your name everywhere.Andrew.**






                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au
                            http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ask%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=764565661&_r=OCT07_endtext_Future&_m=EXT

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • dz@caribe.net
                            Ok, then. The only language I object to is l33t sp34k and txting . Anybody who posts something like: I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+ -kthx (I see
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ok, then. The only "language" I object to is "l33t
                              sp34k" and "txting". Anybody who posts something like:

                              I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+
                              -kthx

                              (I see this on other serious lists)

                              will not be getting an answer from me! :)

                              -dZ.

                              >------- Original Message -------
                              >From :
                              mattlavinder@...[mailto:mattlavinder@...]
                              >Sent : 11/5/2007 5:46:43 PM
                              >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                              >Cc :
                              >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                              etiquette question
                              >
                              >> only the removal of any perceive stigma that
                              posts must be
                              > in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                              > (as happens in other lists).
                              I totally agree with you on this issue. People
                              should most definitely not
                              lash out or insult someone for posting in a language
                              other than English.
                              I don't mind what occurred today because it is rare.
                              I'm fine if people
                              occasionally help out others in another language as
                              long as it is also
                              made clear, respectively, that the group's official
                              language is English.
                              Just my two cents...




                              "dz@..." <dz@...>
                              Sent by: editplus@yahoogroups.com
                              11/05/2007 03:50 PM
                              Please respond to
                              editplus@yahoogroups.com


                              To
                              editplus@yahoogroups.com
                              cc

                              Subject
                              Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question









                              Mark,
                              I do not mean to sound pedantic, but your last
                              message implied that there wouldn't be much
                              multi-lingual posts, except the occasional Spanish or
                              French, and that even additional lists would be
                              overkill because of this. Frankly, I tend to agree
                              with that thought, and it occurs to me that if it
                              ever indeed became a traffic problem in this list,
                              then additional language-specific lists can be spawned.

                              I personally do not mind taking this attitude,
                              and therefore do not oppose actively encouraging
                              users to post in their native language -- with no
                              guarantees as to the expectation of an answer; only
                              the removal of any perceive stigma that posts must be
                              in English, or face flames, insults, or ostracization
                              (as happens in other lists). But I would not impose
                              this on any other active member of this list,
                              especially those that participate often, such as
                              yourself. And that's why I asked for consensus from
                              the list. I only propose it, because the traffic on
                              this list is low as it is, and a little more wouldn't
                              hurt it.

                              That said, I'd understand if you or any other
                              members have any reservations for this; and that's
                              your prerrogative, and I respect it. (As a matter of
                              fact, that's the attitude I have taken on other lists
                              of higher traffic and less culturally-neutral
                              topics.) And if that is the case, I will not insist,
                              and all will be well with the world.

                              Cheers!
                              -dZ.

                              >------- Original Message -------
                              >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
                              >Sent : 11/5/2007 4:29:13 PM
                              >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                              >Cc :
                              >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                              etiquette question
                              >
                              >I have no problem with the occasional multilingual
                              post as long as we
                              don't get Chinese posts from peole like mona naeem.

                              At the same time, however, I don't think we should
                              tell people that it
                              is okay to post in whatever language they want
                              because I don't want
                              half the posts on this list to be in a dozen
                              different languages.

                              ---------------------------------------
                              Mark Kahn

                              http://a.sparag.us
                              Web 2.0 Data Management
                              ---------------------------------------
                              Sent from my iPod Touch

                              On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:29 PM, "dz@..."
                              <dz@...> wrote:

                              > Mark,
                              > I agree with your comment. However, the question
                              > then is: Would it offend or upset anybody if someone
                              > happens to post in a different language? In such
                              > case, those who understand and care to answer, can.
                              > The worst scenario being that the message goes
                              > completely ignored and the poster has to either
                              > acquiesce and go away or re-post in (possibly
                              > machine-translated) English.
                              >
                              > That's why I posed it as an etiquette question:
                              > Some people think that posting in any other language
                              > than the commonly used one in their list, is rude.
                              > And this is very much dependent on the community
                              > involved, and is neither right nor wrong. How does
                              > it apply to ours, do we want to discourage or
                              > encourage this behaviour? I personally have no
                              > problem with seeing a message in Cantonese and
                              > ignoring it. But if I see a message in a language I
                              > understand, I could offer help.
                              >
                              > That said, I will not, however, encourage
                              > cross-language posting if my fellow list members
                              > object to it.
                              >
                              > Sincerely,
                              > -dZ.
                              >
                              > >------- Original Message -------
                              > >From : Mark Kahn[ mailto:cwolves@...]
                              > >Sent : 11/5/2007 2:19:14 PM
                              > >To : editplus@yahoogroups.com
                              > >Cc :
                              > >Subject : RE: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting
                              > etiquette question
                              > >
                              > >I have no problem helping people with poor english,
                              > but there's no possible
                              > way I'd go to babelfish or something and translate a
                              > post from someone that
                              > asked a question in cantonese.
                              >
                              > There are so many free translation services out there
                              > that I believe
                              > non-english speaking people should translate posts
                              > into english and then
                              > translate the responses back in order to read them.
                              > Translation services
                              > may not be perfect but I've never (in recent years)
                              > seen a translation from
                              > one that I couldn't figure out the meaning of.
                              >
                              > I don't mean to sound cruel or racist here, but with
                              > the possible exception
                              > of spanish you are very unlikely to find an answer on
                              > this list if you ask
                              > in any language other than english. If I went to a
                              > german or chinese forum
                              > or mailing list and posted in english, I wouldn't
                              > necessarily expect people
                              > to answer me.
                              >
                              > The problem with foreign language lists is the user
                              > base. We have maybe a
                              > dozen people on the english list that will actively
                              > answer a question.
                              > You'd have what, one on a french list? Three on a
                              > spanish list? The
                              > quality of the list will just be better overall if it
                              > stays english only. I
                              > can almost gaurantee that foreign language lists
                              > would be abandoned fairly
                              > quickly.
                              >
                              > -Mark
                              >
                              > On 11/5/07, dz@... <dz@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hello:
                              > > As has become apparent, there may be EditPlus
                              > > users whom are not native English speakers. Is there
                              > > a specific etiquette rule that should be observed for
                              > > these instances? I mean, should the list be ONLY in
                              > > English? I understand that if someone posts in a
                              > > foreign language, even if someone replies, their pool
                              > > of resources is limited, as not all members of the
                              > > list will be able to participate in the discussion.
                              > > On the other hand, for those who can't properly
                              > > communicate in English (or have trouble doing so in a
                              > > practical situation), being prevented from posting to
                              > > the list will certainly affect their ability to use
                              > > EditPlus.
                              > >
                              > > On the one hand, English speakers will be
                              > > alienated from discussions; on the other, non-English
                              > > speakers will. Should there be other
                              > > language-specific lists (say,
                              > > editplus-es@yahoogroups.com
                              > <editplus-es%40yahoogroups.com>)? (Do they
                              > > exist already?)
                              > >
                              > > I speak both English and Spanish, and could
                              > > participate on both lists if necessary, but is it
                              > > good practice, or should we stick to the single list?
                              > > Then, of course, there's many other languages beside
                              > > Spanish and English (e.g. Sangil Kim is Korean).
                              > >
                              > > I would like to know your opinion on the matter.
                              > > -dZ.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > http://www.editplus.com
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              http://www.editplus.com
                              Yahoo! Groups Links




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              http://www.editplus.com
                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Richard Grevers
                              On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:07:12 +1300, dz@caribe.net gave ... Indeed. Actually, the biggest breach of ettiquette today is that several people have
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
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                                On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:07:12 +1300, dz@... <dz@...> gave
                                utterance to the following:

                                > Ok, then. The only "language" I object to is "l33t
                                > sp34k" and "txting". Anybody who posts something like:
                                >
                                > I need ur help pls how do i work @ e+
                                > -kthx
                                >
                                > (I see this on other serious lists)
                                >
                                > will not be getting an answer from me! :)
                                >
                                Indeed.
                                Actually, the biggest breach of ettiquette today is that several people
                                have been guilty of inadequate trimming of quoted text. (As if Yahoo
                                doesn't already add enough dead weight to messages!)


                                --
                                Richard Grevers
                                əɹəɥdsļɯəɥ uɹəɥʇnosəɥʇ uļ
                              • Perminov Vladimir
                                Well, I don t mind. I just wonder will it be able to display non-latin text. Let s see. тест τηστ テスト
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
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                                  Well, I don't mind. I just wonder will it be able to display non-latin text. Let's see.
                                  тест
                                  τηστ
                                  テスト
                                • Perminov Vladimir
                                  Hmm... Works :)
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
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                                    Hmm... Works :)
                                  • ask@avenarius.sk
                                    On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 02:48:16 (GMT +0300), ... It works all right in email messages* as long as: o you properly encode your message (preferably in
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
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                                      On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 02:48:16 (GMT +0300),
                                      which was 9:45 a.m. in Bratislava, Slovakia, Perminov Vladimir wrote:

                                      > Hmm... Works :)

                                      It works all right in email messages* as long as:

                                      o you properly encode your message (preferably in UTF-8)

                                      o your recipient uses good-quality email software to read youor post

                                      o your recipient happens to use a font to read his/her email that
                                      contains all the letters you happened to use.

                                      So, that's quite a bunch of pitfalls for multi-lingual email users in 2007.

                                      Your test worked fine for me, but Richard's signature, called witty by
                                      some, partially displays as a series of empty boxes for me -- apparently
                                      whatever letters Richard uses are not included in the Georgia font
                                      I employ to read my emails.

                                      * Yahoo! Groups webpages are especially woeful in not supporting UTF-8
                                      universally in 2007. Your test message will not be displayed correctly
                                      on the Yahoo! Group webpage for EditPlus unless you manually adjust
                                      your browser View settings (to UTF-8), which will disrupt the display
                                      of *other* messages. Also, there are problems if a Yahoo! Groups
                                      footer contains diacritic letters -- this will make the display of the
                                      *content* of messages to become garbled in some instances. The only
                                      way to avoid this is to use only ASCII letters in customized Yahoo!
                                      Groups footers. Finally, Yahoo! Groups daily digest messages are a
                                      travesty as well and cannot cope with messages submitted in various
                                      encodings -- it will attempt to re-encode all of them to a single
                                      enconding, making many of them unreadable as a result.

                                      --
                                      Yours,
                                      Alex.
                                      www.avenarius.sk

                                      [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06
                                      EditPlus 2.30 (286) / WinXP 5.1 b2600 SP 2]
                                    • Bronius Motekaitis
                                      Wow, this thread has grown.. I thought it would just kind of fade away with a few sure, if people want to post and feel most comfortable in their native
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
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                                        Wow, this thread has grown.. I thought it would just kind of fade away with
                                        a few "sure, if people want to post and feel most comfortable in their
                                        native languages, so be it, with the understanding that English is
                                        (fortunately for most!) the predominant language in which one would get the
                                        most responses..."

                                        Alex-
                                        Attached is a png of the clever signature.. It was worth capturing ;)
                                        -bronius


                                        On 11/6/07, ask@... <ask@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 02:48:16 (GMT +0300),
                                        > which was 9:45 a.m. in Bratislava, Slovakia, Perminov Vladimir wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Hmm... Works :)
                                        >
                                        > It works all right in email messages* as long as:
                                        >
                                        > o you properly encode your message (preferably in UTF-8)
                                        >
                                        > o your recipient uses good-quality email software to read youor post
                                        >
                                        > o your recipient happens to use a font to read his/her email that
                                        > contains all the letters you happened to use.
                                        >
                                        > So, that's quite a bunch of pitfalls for multi-lingual email users in
                                        > 2007.
                                        >
                                        > Your test worked fine for me, but Richard's signature, called witty by
                                        > some, partially displays as a series of empty boxes for me -- apparently
                                        > whatever letters Richard uses are not included in the Georgia font
                                        > I employ to read my emails.
                                        >
                                        > * Yahoo! Groups webpages are especially woeful in not supporting UTF-8
                                        > universally in 2007. Your test message will not be displayed correctly
                                        > on the Yahoo! Group webpage for EditPlus unless you manually adjust
                                        > your browser View settings (to UTF-8), which will disrupt the display
                                        > of *other* messages. Also, there are problems if a Yahoo! Groups
                                        > footer contains diacritic letters -- this will make the display of the
                                        > *content* of messages to become garbled in some instances. The only
                                        > way to avoid this is to use only ASCII letters in customized Yahoo!
                                        > Groups footers. Finally, Yahoo! Groups daily digest messages are a
                                        > travesty as well and cannot cope with messages submitted in various
                                        > encodings -- it will attempt to re-encode all of them to a single
                                        > enconding, making many of them unreadable as a result.
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Yours,
                                        > Alex.
                                        > www.avenarius.sk
                                        >
                                        > [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06
                                        > EditPlus 2.30 (286) / WinXP 5.1 b2600 SP 2]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • ask@avenarius.sk
                                        On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 09:23:39 (GMT -0600), ... Thanks for trying! ;-))) Anyway, I was wrong in my haste... The signatures, in my email software,
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
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                                          On Tuesday, 6th November 2007 at 09:23:39 (GMT -0600),
                                          which was 16:23 in Bratislava, Slovakia, Bronius Motekaitis wrote:

                                          >> Attached is a png of the clever signature.. It was worth capturing ;)

                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                          Thanks for trying! ;-)))

                                          Anyway, I was wrong in my haste... The signatures, in my email software,
                                          are not displayed in the Georgia font (as I believe that one is fully UTF-8
                                          capable?) but in Arial. And, there are various versions of Arial. So,
                                          after I switched the display of signatures from "ordinary" Arial
                                          to "Arial Unicode MS", Richard's signature became legible. :-)

                                          For the benefit of those who may be following this thread via the
                                          Yahoo! Groups webpage where the display of UTF-8 is messed up, here's
                                          a screenshot of Richard's signature from my email software:

                                          http://avenarius.sk/misc/richard-g_signature.gif

                                          --
                                          Yours,
                                          Alex.
                                          www.avenarius.sk

                                          [processed by "The Bat!", Version 3.80.06
                                          EditPlus 2.30 (286) / WinXP 5.1 b2600 SP 2]
                                        • Perminov Vladimir
                                          ... Oh, yes... I knew something won t work. I was unsure what exactly. That is all american sites work. They handle utf-8 as long as it is nearly
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Nov 9, 2007
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                                            >Your test message will not be displayed correctly
                                            >on the Yahoo! Group webpage

                                            Oh, yes... I knew something won't work. I was unsure what exactly. That is all american sites work. They handle utf-8 as long as it is nearly ascii-compatible.
                                          • Andrew
                                            Was it something I said????**
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Nov 16, 2007
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                                              Was it something I said????**


                                              Nisha Sohail wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > just remove my id from this group!!
                                              >
                                              > To: editplus@yahoogroups.comFrom
                                              > <mailto:editplus%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: mr_aprice@...
                                              > <mailto:mr_aprice%40yahoo.com.auDate>: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:21:41
                                              > +1100Subject: Re: [edit+] Multi-language posting etiquette question
                                              >
                                              > G'day mates,I'm learning AUSLAN (Australian Sign Language), if that
                                              > could help anyone. ;-)Stay safe, luv you all.I say we should help
                                              > anyone who needs it, if things get out of control andthe posts start
                                              > coming through thick and fast then we should sort it outat that
                                              > time.Hey dZ you totally rule, I see your name everywhere.Andrew.**
                                              >
                                              > __________________________________________________________
                                              > Your Future Starts Here. Dream it? Then be it! Find it at www.seek.com.au
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                                              >
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                                              >
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