Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [edict-jmdict] Fiddling with WWWJDIC (Was: Re: In-line examples in WWWJDIC)

Expand Messages
  • Dennis Schrader
    OK, To be perfectly honest, I have always felt the Edict page layout (not the first, cover page but rather the later pages (which are all from the same
    Message 1 of 28 , May 6, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      OK, To be perfectly honest, I have always felt the Edict page layout (not the first, "cover page" but rather the later pages (which are all from the same template) to be noisy and confused/ing. As much as I have been in Edict on line(thousands of hours), I have never found the "way to search on other dictionaries listed" to be clear enough to even mess with. So I open other dictionaries in separate windows via IE7. I really do hate the blind alleys that necessarily result.
       
      In short, although it's probably not what the designers want to hear, I think it would be better to start over again from afresh - and this time with an outline first. In trying to offer so much more than other online sources, Edict actually becomes labyrinthine.
       
      Dennis

      On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 6:44 AM, Jim Breen <jimbreen@...> wrote:

      2008/5/6 Jim Breen <jimbreen@...>:
      > I plan to add a few more options to the customize page in the next week or
      > so which will enable the removal of things, especially from the dictionary
      > results page. Watch this space.

      I started getting ready for a cleanup this evening, but got
      distracted. I'd never
      really like the look of that string of menu items across the top of the page, so
      I wasted some time turning it into a sort-of toolbar. You can see it
      in the testbed.
      e.g. http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic2.cgi?1MUJiku

      What do people think? Is it worth keeping?

      I'm inlined to ditch the "Screen: Dictionary Search,", and only show the
      current dictionary when it's relevant.

      Cheers

      Jim

      --
      Jim Breen
      Honorary Senior Research Fellow
      Clayton School of Information Technology,
      Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
      http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/


    • Jeroen Hoek
      ... Better, although I d drop the font-size another notch to the level of the examples. Copyright and Donations are right next to each other, visually
      Message 2 of 28 , May 6, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Jim Breen wrote:
        > Can you try it again? I have put a white line between the items now. I have also
        > got my three testing screen (Firefox/Linux, Firefox/XP, IE/XP) all
        > looking more-or-less
        > the same, once you take into account the differences in font availability and
        > rendering styles. The coding setting makes a difference too. I usually run
        > it in UTF8 mode, but some of the feedback screens are forced into
        > EUC-JP, and they
        > look rather different as they are using different fonts
        >
        >
        Better, although I'd drop the font-size another notch to the level of
        the examples. "Copyright" and "Donations" are right next to each other,
        visually separated only by the white bar.

        The table does force a horizontal scroll-bar for 800*600 and smaller
        now, which might be an issue for portables and such.
        > I wanted to get something more like the front page into that menu list -
        > make it more like a menu bar.
        >
        >
        This?

        http://jeroenhoek.nl/test/menutest.html

        The idea is that the menu items take up whatever horizontal space there
        is, and only use another line if necessary. It should be all on one line
        for high resolutions, and the even on 800*600 the menu doesn't cause a
        horizontal scroll-bar.

        On a side note, the increased size of the headwords is great, it makes
        the kanji much more legible and pleasant to look at, at least under
        Ubuntu with Firefox.

        ~ Jeroen
      • Jim Breen
        ... That s why I m discussing a process of decluttering. What I m planning is a customization option in which users can drop the features they don t want. ...
        Message 3 of 28 , May 6, 2008
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          2008/5/7 Dennis Schrader <jpnthailand@...>:
          >
          > OK, To be perfectly honest, I have always felt the Edict page layout (not
          > the first, "cover page" but rather the later pages (which are all from the
          > same template) to be noisy and confused/ing.

          That's why I'm discussing a process of decluttering. What I'm planning
          is a customization option in which users can drop the features they don't want.

          > As much as I have been in Edict
          > on line(thousands of hours), I have never found the "way to search on other
          > dictionaries listed" to be clear enough to even mess with. So I open other
          > dictionaries in separate windows via IE7. I really do hate the blind alleys
          > that necessarily result.

          Whatever works for you. I don't use it, but I know a few people do. Most of the
          options are there because people have asked for them, but I agree it's better
          not to foist them on everyone.

          > In short, although it's probably not what the designers want to hear, I
          > think it would be better to start over again from afresh - and this time
          > with an outline first. In trying to offer so much more than other online
          > sources, Edict actually becomes labyrinthine.

          WWWJDIC. The fresh start is WWWJDIC2. I might start on it in my second
          retirement. In the meantime anyone else can have a go, with my blessing.

          One of the old EDICT-based sites was "JEDI" at Notre Dame in Japan. It did
          EDICT lookups and nothing else, and had a loyal following. When they shut it
          down a couple of years ago they suggested users switch to WWWJDIC. I got some
          angry and even abusive emails from JEDI users who felt I was cheating them in
          some way by having a more complicated interface. A bit like complaining
          because a car isn't a bicycle. I soothed them eventually.

          Cheers

          Jim
          --
          Jim Breen
          Honorary Senior Research Fellow
          Clayton School of Information Technology,
          Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
          http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
        • Jim Breen
          ... I have it down to 0.9em now. I don t know what you are seeing for the examples as it s based on the font size you have chosen
          Message 4 of 28 , May 6, 2008
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            2008/5/7 Jeroen Hoek <mail@...>:
            > Jim Breen wrote:
            > > Can you try it again? ....

            > Better, although I'd drop the font-size another notch to the level of
            > the examples.

            I have it down to 0.9em now. I don't know what you are seeing for the
            examples as it's
            based on the font size you have chosen
            (Preferences/Fonts/Advanced/...) All I have done
            is wrap a <font size="-1"> ... </font> around the example text.

            > "Copyright" and "Donations" are right next to each other,
            > visually separated only by the white bar.

            Browsers are doing funny things. When they fold a line, they put in
            padding, but they don't
            when it's not folded. I have put in 2 pixels of padding which looks a
            little better.

            > The table does force a horizontal scroll-bar for 800*600 and smaller
            > now, which might be an issue for portables and such.

            It will do that when it can't fold text any further. I guess it can be
            lived with.

            > > I wanted to get something more like the front page into that menu list -
            > > make it more like a menu bar.

            > This?
            >
            > http://jeroenhoek.nl/test/menutest.html

            Very nice.

            > The idea is that the menu items take up whatever horizontal space there
            > is, and only use another line if necessary. It should be all on one line
            > for high resolutions, and the even on 800*600 the menu doesn't cause a
            > horizontal scroll-bar.

            OTOH being a <ul> list rather than a <table> you miss out on the folding, which
            make it rather more compact. Certainly an option to think about.

            I'm very much a neophyte when it comes to CSS. I'm resisting the temptation
            to go too far into it, but bits are obviously very useful.

            > On a side note, the increased size of the headwords is great, it makes
            > the kanji much more legible and pleasant to look at, at least under
            > Ubuntu with Firefox.

            I like it, but not everyone does. It's on my list of options of things
            which can be disabled.

            Cheers

            Jim
            --
            Jim Breen
            Honorary Senior Research Fellow
            Clayton School of Information Technology,
            Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
            http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
          • Mark Burns
            How about opening up the design to the users? If you could add css style tags to all the elements, then you can separate content and layout and that way
            Message 5 of 28 , May 7, 2008
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              How about opening up the design to the users?
              If you could add css style tags to all the elements,
              then you can separate content and layout and
              that way provide for various different devices, etc.
              It makes the changing of style easier, and
              results in reduced filesizes.
              Having a quick look at the code, for example
              you have
              <td class="hdr" align="center" valign="top">

              you could put the align elements within the hdr
              style and save on those characters in each header.

              For examples, a really good site is
              http://www.csszengarden.com/

              You can try out various different styles by
              clicking the links, and all it does is change
              the external css file.

              Anyway, sorry if you know all this, but it just
              seems like all this discussion about making one
              font 1pt smaller or larger, or move this here, etc.
              should really be something that just goes on in the
              mind of a designer with a good eye for visual
              layout.

              2008/5/7 Jim Breen <jimbreen@...>:

              2008/5/7 Jeroen Hoek <mail@...>:
              > Jim Breen wrote:
              > > Can you try it again? ....



              > Better, although I'd drop the font-size another notch to the level of
              > the examples.

              I have it down to 0.9em now. I don't know what you are seeing for the
              examples as it's
              based on the font size you have chosen
              (Preferences/Fonts/Advanced/...) All I have done
              is wrap a <font size="-1"> ... </font> around the example text.


              > "Copyright" and "Donations" are right next to each other,
              > visually separated only by the white bar.

              Browsers are doing funny things. When they fold a line, they put in
              padding, but they don't
              when it's not folded. I have put in 2 pixels of padding which looks a
              little better.


              > The table does force a horizontal scroll-bar for 800*600 and smaller
              > now, which might be an issue for portables and such.

              It will do that when it can't fold text any further. I guess it can be
              lived with.


              > > I wanted to get something more like the front page into that menu list -
              > > make it more like a menu bar.

              > This?
              >
              > http://jeroenhoek.nl/test/menutest.html

              Very nice.


              > The idea is that the menu items take up whatever horizontal space there
              > is, and only use another line if necessary. It should be all on one line
              > for high resolutions, and the even on 800*600 the menu doesn't cause a
              > horizontal scroll-bar.

              OTOH being a <ul> list rather than a <table> you miss out on the folding, which
              make it rather more compact. Certainly an option to think about.

              I'm very much a neophyte when it comes to CSS. I'm resisting the temptation
              to go too far into it, but bits are obviously very useful.


              > On a side note, the increased size of the headwords is great, it makes
              > the kanji much more legible and pleasant to look at, at least under
              > Ubuntu with Firefox.

              I like it, but not everyone does. It's on my list of options of things
              which can be disabled.


              Cheers

              Jim
              --
              Jim Breen
              Honorary Senior Research Fellow
              Clayton School of Information Technology,
              Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
              http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/

            • Jeroen Hoek
              (replace [ ] with ) I think Mark has a good point here, but it would require a rebuild of the existing HTML to make use of the appropriate tags from a
              Message 6 of 28 , May 7, 2008
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                (replace [ ] with < >)

                I think Mark has a good point here, but it would require a rebuild of
                the existing HTML to make use of the appropriate tags from a semantics
                standpoint. That is, no font tags but CSS classes, use of [small] and
                [big] elements, use [table] exclusively for tabular data, not layout,
                add [label] tags to the "Starting kanji" and "Common words" options.
                Perhaps present the results list as a [dl] with the headwords as [dh]
                and the body of it as a [dd], with [p class="example"] and [p
                class="meaning"]. Split up the sections of the page (results, options,
                menu) with [div]s where necessary. I would even go as far as to suggest
                moving to XHTML 1.1 and UTF-8 as a default.

                (the menu as an [ul] is another example of semantically correct HTML usage.)

                As for the increase in bytes per page through consistent application of
                alt and title tags, I would suggest looking into implementing GZip HTTP
                compression, which is supported by all browsers today. (ignoring Netscape 4)

                All in all, because of the clean and simple design, moving all styling
                to a single CSS sheet, and all semantic meaning to the HTML side would
                not be too difficult, and pays off in the long run. If a redesign is
                considered, I would suggest creating a test case that includes all
                common scenarios, a page with dictionary entries, examples and all other
                related components, and put up a request for designs and try to find an
                ideal sensible default, and perhaps offer other designs through the
                customization page.

                A golden rule for HTML/CSS websites is that the website should be
                perfectly usable with the stylesheet turned off. Even though it may be
                quite ugly.

                I think WWWJDIC's strength is in providing a high quality dictionary.
                Other projects such as JLex are ideal testing grounds for novel
                interface concepts. The WWW version of EDICT is used by a lot of people,
                but don't underestimate the usage of EDICT through tools such as
                Rikaichan for Firefox, or stand-alone applications (such as GJiten).
                WWWJDIC is lovely as is, and complies with KISS, although a bit of
                XHTML/CSS polish would gently nudge it out of the nineties. ;)

                ~ Jeroen

                Mark Burns wrote:
                > How about opening up the design to the users?
                > If you could add css style tags to all the elements,
                > then you can separate content and layout and
                > that way provide for various different devices, etc.
                > It makes the changing of style easier, and
                > results in reduced filesizes.
                > Having a quick look at the code, for example
                > you have
                > <td class="hdr" align="center" valign="top">
                >
                >
                > you could put the align elements within the hdr
                > style and save on those characters in each header.
                >
                > font 1pt smaller or larger, or move this here, etc.
                > should really be something that just goes on in the
                > mind of a designer with a good eye for visual
                > layout.
              • Dennis Schrader
                Re: One of the old EDICT-based sites was JEDI at Notre Dame in Japan. It did EDICT lookups and nothing else, and had a loyal following. When they shut it
                Message 7 of 28 , May 7, 2008
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Re: "One of the old EDICT-based sites was "JEDI" at Notre Dame in Japan. It did EDICT lookups and nothing else, and had a loyal following. When they shut it down a couple of years ago they suggested users switch to WWWJDIC. I got some angry and even abusive emails from JEDI users who felt I was cheating them in some way by having a more complicated interface. A bit like complaining because a car isn't a bicycle. I soothed them eventually."
                   
                  Although your good name does not need to be "cleared", please let me weigh in here. I became acquainted with the JEDI project well before I knew of Edict -- and even went to Notre Dame in Kyoto to speak with their coordinator(s) right after, I believe, the project was cancelled (could be wrong on the time). I could not find anyone at all at their Kyoto main JEDI location.
                   
                  After JEDI was cancelled, I too was angry, because I was new to online Jpn dictionaries and JEDI was all that I knew of at the time. I can honestly say that there are probably two quite different reasons for the JEDI users to be angry at Jim:
                   
                  1) When JEDI shut down, there was literally no information about why they were shutting down and my emails to Notre Dame in Kyoto and in the US went unanswered. (So there was no one else besides Jim to vent their anger on.)
                  2) JEDI was easier to use than Edict only because JEDI had a roma-ji interface.
                   
                  So, if any former JEDI users contact you, please pass on their angry emails to me. I will be more than glad to share my JEDI experience with them.
                   
                  In conclusion, my comments about the Edict interface being "noisy and confusing" are I believe quite valid.
                   
                  However, should you deign to include a roma-ji interface?   I think not.

                  On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Jim Breen <jimbreen@...> wrote:

                  2008/5/7 Dennis Schrader <jpnthailand@...>:
                  >
                  > OK, To be perfectly honest, I have always felt the Edict page layout (not
                  > the first, "cover page" but rather the later pages (which are all from the
                  > same template) to be noisy and confused/ing.

                  That's why I'm discussing a process of decluttering. What I'm planning
                  is a customization option in which users can drop the features they don't want.


                  > As much as I have been in Edict
                  > on line(thousands of hours), I have never found the "way to search on other
                  > dictionaries listed" to be clear enough to even mess with. So I open other
                  > dictionaries in separate windows via IE7. I really do hate the blind alleys
                  > that necessarily result.

                  Whatever works for you. I don't use it, but I know a few people do. Most of the
                  options are there because people have asked for them, but I agree it's better
                  not to foist them on everyone.


                  > In short, although it's probably not what the designers want to hear, I
                  > think it would be better to start over again from afresh - and this time
                  > with an outline first. In trying to offer so much more than other online
                  > sources, Edict actually becomes labyrinthine.

                  WWWJDIC. The fresh start is WWWJDIC2. I might start on it in my second
                  retirement. In the meantime anyone else can have a go, with my blessing.

                  One of the old EDICT-based sites was "JEDI" at Notre Dame in Japan. It did
                  EDICT lookups and nothing else, and had a loyal following. When they shut it
                  down a couple of years ago they suggested users switch to WWWJDIC. I got some
                  angry and even abusive emails from JEDI users who felt I was cheating them in
                  some way by having a more complicated interface. A bit like complaining
                  because a car isn't a bicycle. I soothed them eventually.


                  Cheers

                  Jim
                  --
                  Jim Breen
                  Honorary Senior Research Fellow
                  Clayton School of Information Technology,
                  Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
                  http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/


                • Dennis Schrader
                  Before the end of this coming weekend, I will submit 2, maybe 3, hopefully more user friendly and less cluttered Edict interfaces. I will do so in such a way
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 7, 2008
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Before the end of this coming weekend, I will submit 2, maybe 3, hopefully more "user friendly" and less cluttered Edict interfaces. I will do so in such a way that is "coder-friendly" and not pie in the sky.
                    If you folks don't like em, please feel free to place them in the nearest circular file. In short, I have complained about the present; so it's up to me to suggest something better, and not just whine and complain.

                     
                    On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Dennis Schrader <jpnthailand@...> wrote:
                    Re: "One of the old EDICT-based sites was "JEDI" at Notre Dame in Japan. It did EDICT lookups and nothing else, and had a loyal following. When they shut it down a couple of years ago they suggested users switch to WWWJDIC. I got some angry and even abusive emails from JEDI users who felt I was cheating them in some way by having a more complicated interface. A bit like complaining because a car isn't a bicycle. I soothed them eventually."
                     
                    Although your good name does not need to be "cleared", please let me weigh in here. I became acquainted with the JEDI project well before I knew of Edict -- and even went to Notre Dame in Kyoto to speak with their coordinator(s) right after, I believe, the project was cancelled (could be wrong on the time). I could not find anyone at all at their Kyoto main JEDI location.
                     
                    After JEDI was cancelled, I too was angry, because I was new to online Jpn dictionaries and JEDI was all that I knew of at the time. I can honestly say that there are probably two quite different reasons for the JEDI users to be angry at Jim:
                     
                    1) When JEDI shut down, there was literally no information about why they were shutting down and my emails to Notre Dame in Kyoto and in the US went unanswered. (So there was no one else besides Jim to vent their anger on.)
                    2) JEDI was easier to use than Edict only because JEDI had a roma-ji interface.
                     
                    So, if any former JEDI users contact you, please pass on their angry emails to me. I will be more than glad to share my JEDI experience with them.
                     
                    In conclusion, my comments about the Edict interface being "noisy and confusing" are I believe quite valid.
                     
                    However, should you deign to include a roma-ji interface?   I think not.

                    On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Jim Breen <jimbreen@...> wrote:

                    2008/5/7 Dennis Schrader <jpnthailand@...>:
                    >
                    > OK, To be perfectly honest, I have always felt the Edict page layout (not
                    > the first, "cover page" but rather the later pages (which are all from the
                    > same template) to be noisy and confused/ing.

                    That's why I'm discussing a process of decluttering. What I'm planning
                    is a customization option in which users can drop the features they don't want.


                    > As much as I have been in Edict
                    > on line(thousands of hours), I have never found the "way to search on other
                    > dictionaries listed" to be clear enough to even mess with. So I open other
                    > dictionaries in separate windows via IE7. I really do hate the blind alleys
                    > that necessarily result.

                    Whatever works for you. I don't use it, but I know a few people do. Most of the
                    options are there because people have asked for them, but I agree it's better
                    not to foist them on everyone.


                    > In short, although it's probably not what the designers want to hear, I
                    > think it would be better to start over again from afresh - and this time
                    > with an outline first. In trying to offer so much more than other online
                    > sources, Edict actually becomes labyrinthine.

                    WWWJDIC. The fresh start is WWWJDIC2. I might start on it in my second
                    retirement. In the meantime anyone else can have a go, with my blessing.

                    One of the old EDICT-based sites was "JEDI" at Notre Dame in Japan. It did
                    EDICT lookups and nothing else, and had a loyal following. When they shut it
                    down a couple of years ago they suggested users switch to WWWJDIC. I got some
                    angry and even abusive emails from JEDI users who felt I was cheating them in
                    some way by having a more complicated interface. A bit like complaining
                    because a car isn't a bicycle. I soothed them eventually.


                    Cheers

                    Jim
                    --
                    Jim Breen
                    Honorary Senior Research Fellow
                    Clayton School of Information Technology,
                    Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
                    http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/



                  • Jim Breen
                    ... This pretty much sums up my views too. Certainly if I ever get to doing a rebuild og WWWJDIC from the bottom up, I d decouple content from presentation and
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 11, 2008
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      2008/5/7 Jeroen Hoek <mail@...>:
                      > (replace [ ] with < >)
                      >
                      > I think Mark has a good point here, but it would require a rebuild of
                      > the existing HTML to make use of the appropriate tags from a semantics
                      > standpoint. That is, no font tags but CSS classes, use of [small] and
                      > [big] elements, use [table] exclusively for tabular data, not layout,
                      > add [label] tags to the "Starting kanji" and "Common words" options.
                      > Perhaps present the results list as a [dl] with the headwords as [dh]
                      > and the body of it as a [dd], with [p class="example"] and [p
                      > class="meaning"]. Split up the sections of the page (results, options,
                      > menu) with [div]s where necessary. I would even go as far as to suggest
                      > moving to XHTML 1.1 and UTF-8 as a default.
                      >
                      > (the menu as an [ul] is another example of semantically correct HTML
                      > usage.)

                      This pretty much sums up my views too. Certainly if I ever get to doing a
                      rebuild og WWWJDIC from the bottom up, I'd decouple content from presentation
                      and open the option ofpeople doing (and offering) their own CSS versions.

                      > As for the increase in bytes per page through consistent application of
                      > alt and title tags, I would suggest looking into implementing GZip HTTP
                      > compression, which is supported by all browsers today. (ignoring Netscape
                      > 4)

                      AFAIK this is happening already for static pages. I don't control the
                      Apache server;
                      I'm just one of the users (albeit the largest in volume.)

                      I don't know what is needed (if anything) at the CGI program level.
                      All I can find
                      Googling is mention of parameters to set in Perl and PHP. Not much use for me.

                      > A golden rule for HTML/CSS websites is that the website should be
                      > perfectly usable with the stylesheet turned off. Even though it may be
                      > quite ugly.

                      Absolutely.

                      > I think WWWJDIC's strength is in providing a high quality dictionary.
                      > Other projects such as JLex are ideal testing grounds for novel
                      > interface concepts. The WWW version of EDICT is used by a lot of people,
                      > but don't underestimate the usage of EDICT through tools such as
                      > Rikaichan for Firefox, or stand-alone applications (such as GJiten).
                      > WWWJDIC is lovely as is, and complies with KISS, although a bit of
                      > XHTML/CSS polish would gently nudge it out of the nineties. ;)

                      Agreed.

                      Cheers

                      Jim

                      --
                      Jim Breen
                      Honorary Senior Research Fellow
                      Clayton School of Information Technology,
                      Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
                      http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
                    • Mark Burns
                      ... of ... HTTP ... Netscape ... AFAIK this is happening already for static pages. I don t control the Apache server; I m just one of the users (albeit the
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 11, 2008
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment

                            > As for the increase in bytes per page through consistent application of
                            > alt and title tags, I would suggest looking into implementing GZip HTTP
                            > compression, which is supported by all browsers today. (ignoring Netscape
                            > 4)

                            AFAIK this is happening already for static pages. I don't control the
                            Apache server;
                            I'm just one of the users (albeit the largest in volume.)

                            I don't know what is needed (if anything) at the CGI program level.
                            All I can find
                            Googling is mention of parameters to set in Perl and PHP. Not much use for me.

                           
                        http://search.cpan.org/~CLOTHO/CGI-Compress-Gzip-0.20/lib/CGI/Compress/Gzip.pm

                        Is this the kind of thing? I don't know much about CGI, but I guess the implication is that
                        with the existence of such a module, perhaps it isn't left up to apache to do the compression?


                      • Jim Breen
                        ... I get that impression too. That module is Perl, of course. The page at: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_deflate.html seems to say it is a standard
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 12, 2008
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          2008/5/12 Mark Burns <markburnsemail@...>:
                          > I don't know what is needed (if anything) at the CGI program level.
                          > All I can find
                          > Googling is mention of parameters to set in Perl and PHP. Not much use
                          > for me.
                          >
                          > http://search.cpan.org/~CLOTHO/CGI-Compress-Gzip-0.20/lib/CGI/Compress/Gzip.pm
                          >
                          > Is this the kind of thing? I don't know much about CGI, but I guess the
                          > implication is that
                          > with the existence of such a module, perhaps it isn't left up to apache to
                          > do the compression?

                          I get that impression too. That module is Perl, of course.

                          The page at:
                          http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_deflate.html

                          seems to say it is a standard feature of Apache, but I don't know if that
                          extends to HTML written dynamically by a CGI program. Usually you just
                          write to STDOUT (printf()). No scope to capure all that and compress it first.

                          Jim

                          --
                          Jim Breen
                          Honorary Senior Research Fellow
                          Clayton School of Information Technology,
                          Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia
                          http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/
                        • Darren Cook
                          ... PHP also does the compression itself, so I agree that apache s own compression probably only applies to static html:
                          Message 12 of 28 , May 12, 2008
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > Is this the kind of thing? I don't know much about CGI, but I guess the
                            > implication is that
                            > with the existence of such a module, perhaps it isn't left up to apache to
                            > do the compression?

                            PHP also does the compression itself, so I agree that apache's own
                            compression probably only applies to static html:
                            http://jp2.php.net/manual/en/zlib.configuration.php

                            It is a shame the Apache mod_deflate manual page doesn't say so
                            explicitly though.

                            Darren



                            --
                            Darren Cook
                            http://dcook.org/mlsn/ (English-Japanese-German-Chinese free dictionary)
                            http://dcook.org/work/ (About me and my work)
                            http://dcook.org/work/charts/ (My flash charting demos)
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.