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Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

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  • al_radzik
    ... Experience of this light and sound is purely subjective so You cannot verify your reality to others logically so this experience becomes meaningless.
    Message 1 of 31 , Dec 12, 2012
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      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...> wrote:
      >
      > I took Harold out of the equation, and what was left is my actual experience. You asked what the sound current is, so I boiled it down without any hocus pocus. 
      >
      > You said, "I like to keep logic out of the spiritual equation".  I don't leave that faculty out of the equation because I want to know what is real and what is imagined. Religion in general has sold us a bunch of hocum and created a powerful institution in the process. 
      >
      > Faith, is a real quality but faith without logic and intellectual analysis gives us a "stupid saint". 

      Experience of this "light and sound" is purely subjective so You cannot verify your "reality" to others logically so this experience becomes meaningless. Religion is simply a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. It is not selling anything you don't want to buy into.
      >
      > I believe it is possible to develop along more than one line, ie intellectual, emotional and physical. 

      Of course but the application of logic to the presuppositions inspired by faith is called theology. Theology is not absolute proof of God. Your understanding of god is just as valid as mine even if I choose not to try to understand my God. God is the creator. I am the created. I can not be equal to God. I can only strive to use my physical assets to attain a certain level of spirituality and relationship WITH god.
      >
      > I can't respect a one sided argument and a lack of interest in reality. 

      And I can't respect a one sided argument from someone who claims to have a higher reality of God than me. That is why eckankar and all of it's current and ex-followers who continue to use the Eckspeak to explain their ties with god is total bullshit. Always was and always will be dubious and cultic hogwash.
      >
      > Yes, the sound current is, in my experience a part of 'inner reality'. 

      There is no inner and outer reality. We are part and parcel of the Universe as a while. It is the same reality. Our ego separates the two.
      >
      > Take it or leave it, it's really up to you.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:14 PM
      > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
      >
      >
      >  
      > Sound pretty scientific. So everything vibrates at a different rate?
      > I like to keep "logic" out of the spiritual equation. Most of this sounds hocus-pocus. God doesn't follow any physical laws that we are aware of. It is purely faith that connects us to our higher power which is of your own choosing.
      > You're correct. The Holy Spirit would be the most likely counterpart to the light and sound that Harold speaks of. He's a bag of wind and boring. I've heard him speak several times and he doesn't really do anything for me. Just sayin'.
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@> wrote:
      > >
      > > It's an aspect of the Holy Spirit related to vibratory rates which change according to the density of matter and the ratio of spirit to matter. I hear it when I enter the silence within my self, listening and feeling myself in this present moment.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:17 AM
      > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > > Refresh my memory. What is the sound current and how is it helpful for you in real life? In Western religion perhaps its counterpart would be "grace". That is the action of God in your life.
      > > I am no longer interested in Eastern thought as a path to god. I believe we are created by a loving and conscious Creator. I was indoctrinated by Catholicism early in life and left it because we were tought that the "big guy in the sky" was just sitting up there waiting for you to screw up so he can punish you and send you to Hell". That is the least of what god is. I have returned to my roots with a renewed fervor and excitement like nothing I've ever felt.
      > >
      > > --- In mailto:eckankartruth%40yahoogroups.com, "russrodnick" <russrodnick@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing David
      > > > Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
      > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in his
      > > > mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he is
      > > > finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
      > > > connection with the sound current.
      > > >
      > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
      > > >
      > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that it
      > > > has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
      > > > current.
      > > >
      > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after becoming
      > > > a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the plaigarism and
      > > > ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
      > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
      > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
      > > > work with it.
      > > >
      > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
      > > >
      > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
      > > >
      > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by itself
      > > > doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the Truth
      > > > regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
      > > > Divine??"
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > >
      > > > Russ
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • etznab18
      It is quite possible some of the Eckankar writings were inspired by those books you mentioned. Paul Twitchell once reportedly wrote: [....] I have a book in
      Message 31 of 31 , Jan 10, 2013
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        It is quite possible some of the Eckankar writings were inspired by those books you mentioned. Paul Twitchell once reportedly wrote:

        "[....] I have a book in my collection called the Sar Bachan written by Sardar Seva Singh, which is the teachings of the Sound Current, and acts as practically my Bible!"

        [Based on LTG Vol. 2, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1977, Fourth Printing 1986, p. 149]

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "michael112658" wrote:
        >
        > I am curious as to how many people here have read any of the eastern Light and Sound literature. "Sar Bachan Radhasoami" (both prose and poetry) in particular is quite fascinating.
        >
        > Peace
        >
        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom" wrote:
        > >
        > > I said that I heard the sound current several years before I ever heard about Eckankar. What I meant by that and perhaps should have explained more clearly (for brevity reasons I try to keep my e-mails short) is that I DID NOT need Eckankar to experience the sound current and still do not.
        > >
        > > Just as you seem to have found a heart found connection with
        > > your religion I too find peace, joy, wisdom, and love from listening to the sound current.
        > >
        > > I don't think Love and more(God)should be bottled up, packaged, and sold as a particular brand like coke or pepsi but is ever expanding, nourishing, and free.
        > >
        > > Happy New Year with Love as best as I can express it to All,
        > > Freedom
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I forgot which post it was, but someone referred to their parents being Roman Catholic and their experience of "inner sounds" was not explained until 1971 with EASTERN religion. I assume the poster meant Eckankar but unfortunately, Eckankar is a blend of East and West. Twitchell tried to join the two areas of thought into one conglomerate we've come to know as the "Light And Sound".
        > > > Roman Catholicism has just as much if not more mystical aspects than one might believe. The Bible is full of miracles and manifestations of the divine. In the early 20th century, three children witnessed an apparition of Mary and some of the great saints have had moments of spiritual awakenings. It's not something that belongs solely to the East. The mere ritual of the Catholic Mass is unto itself a miracle where the bread and wine are transubstantiated into the body and blood of Jesus i.e. on a different level of reality.
        > > > Etznab and others seem to cling to this notion that the experiences they have now with buzzing bees and flutes is real and that Eckankar's promise of spiritual growth is coming true without help from the organization. That's fine, but it is always in context with the Eck.
        > > > Twitchell's "religion" was quickly debunked but vestiges of it remain and in the end, it really brought nothing new to the spiritual landscape of the world. It was a "sandwich board/bumper sticker" mentality that many people latched onto because it was easy, fast and quickly attainable via discourses.
        > > > As Bob Dylan said, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
        > > >
        > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > It's an aspect of the Holy Spirit related to vibratory rates which change according to the density of matter and the ratio of spirit to matter. I hear it when I enter the silence within my self, listening and feeling myself in this present moment.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > From: al_radzik
        > > > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 7:17 AM
        > > > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > > > Refresh my memory. What is the sound current and how is it helpful for you in real life? In Western religion perhaps its counterpart would be "grace". That is the action of God in your life.
        > > > > I am no longer interested in Eastern thought as a path to god. I believe we are created by a loving and conscious Creator. I was indoctrinated by Catholicism early in life and left it because we were tought that the "big guy in the sky" was just sitting up there waiting for you to screw up so he can punish you and send you to Hell". That is the least of what god is. I have returned to my roots with a renewed fervor and excitement like nothing I've ever felt.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In mailto:eckankartruth%40yahoogroups.com, "russrodnick" wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing David
        > > > > > Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
        > > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in his
        > > > > > mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he is
        > > > > > finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
        > > > > > connection with the sound current.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that it
        > > > > > has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
        > > > > > current.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after becoming
        > > > > > a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the plaigarism and
        > > > > > ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
        > > > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
        > > > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
        > > > > > work with it.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
        > > > > >
        > > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by itself
        > > > > > doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the Truth
        > > > > > regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
        > > > > > Divine??"
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Thanks,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Russ
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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