Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

Expand Messages
  • etznab@aol.com
    I wasn t around a.r.e. in the 1990s. Started posting on Truthseeker BB around 2005, I think, and then moved over to posting on mostly a.r.e. after Ford s BB
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 6, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      I wasn't around a.r.e. in the 1990s. Started posting on Truthseeker BB
      around 2005, I think, and then moved over to posting on mostly a.r.e.
      after Ford's BB ended around 2007. I've had to learn about the early
      days in retrospect.

      If Eckankar ever dumps the fiction and replaces it with fact, I will be
      there to applaud. Even if I'm the only one who stayed around to see it
      happen. In the mean time, while waiting, I want to learn as much about
      the truth as I can. So when people ask me questions about Eckankar and
      the history I will not have to serve them up another pat answer, or
      myth.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, Jul 6, 2012 11:09 pm
      Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

       
      You are a very thorough chronicler of Eckankar my friend. I'm just
      curious as to how and why you've come to be the latest and perhaps one
      of the last "detractors" on alt.religion.eckankar.
      Most folks in this group have already been through a dramatic exchange
      with various Eckists on that newsgroup since the mid 90's. There have
      been websites dedicated to the naysayers. Employers and families of
      detractors have been notified of our "disrespectful" attitudes towards
      Eckankar and many threats have been made.
      I don't know if you were around then under a pseudonym or were just a
      "whippersnapper" during that heyday but there were certainly some
      interesting folks in the hallowed cyberhalls of a.r.e.:

      Eckists included:
      Rich Smith - Hawaii's very own cybersailor who went through an enormous
      effort to get my personal phone number and publish it so others could
      call and harass me. He actually called my mother up and tricked her
      into believing he was an old friend of mine.
      Joe Homsey a.k.a. (Joey Galuuk)
      Cheryl Gruendemann
      Michael Wallace and his girlfriend Bee: Two Australian nutjobs.Michael
      now runs a website called numberharmonics.com and Bee was some punk
      rocking little gnat who wrote and published songs about me on the
      Internet.
      Rita Crorkin (a.k.a Windy)
      Jessica Weiss - Eck Nazi-Feminist
      Richard Pickett - Administrator at Duke University with his buddy Joe
      Polonis
      Diamond Star - Schizoid woman from Washington State who claimed the FBI
      was putting cameras in her microwave
      and the list goes on......

      Sharon was the chief detractor. She made life for them a living hell
      because she was a long time Eckist and climbed the fence one day never
      to look back again.

      David Lane: nuff said

      arelurker: A very articulate poster who kept his identity safe from
      everyone. They tried so hard to find out who he was but he was very
      smart and always stayed one step ahead of them. He really knew how to
      rile the Eckists up!!!

      I could go on and on but we all got bored with it and just left one
      sunny afternoon. The place has never been the same.

      For some reason I thought you were an Eckie at one time, Etznab.

      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Considering the idea of agents for and of God, the LEM (Living Eck
      > Master) was / is apparently NOT called the one and only (as will
      be
      > shown later in Paul Twitchell's writings).
      >
      > Some excerpts (and trying to correct for typos) from Julian
      Johnson use
      > the word "Master" where Paul Twitchell (or should I say, Rebazar
      > Tarzs?) used "Sugmad" (a word of "God").:
      >
      > [...] Now, if the Master's disciple wishes to escape the creation
      of
      > karma of any sort, let him do whatever he does in the name of the
      > Master, acting as his agent. So long as he does that, he will not
      > create new karma, because he is acting solely as the agent of
      another,
      > and always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
      But
      > he must do this not merely in a ceremonial way but
      > with his entire thought and soul in it. In deep earnest let him do
      all
      > things, every detail of his life, in the name of his Master. This
      will,
      > per necessity, oblige him to do only what he thinks his Master
      will
      > approve of. When he approaches a task or a proposed act, he will
      > remember that it is to be done in the name of the Master. He will
      fix
      > his mind on the Master, and then in love and devotion he will
      > do the work as a genuine service to the Master and in his name. He
      will
      > remember that nothing is his own. All belongs to the Master
      because he
      > has dedicated all to the Masterâ€" even his mind and his body, as
      well as
      > his property. So he must use them all as if he were using the
      property
      > of another, and use them exactly as he believes the owner would
      like to
      > have him use them. [...] But the main point under consideration
      here is
      > that if the disciple uses his mind and his body and his wealth all
      in
      > the name of the Master, he is not creating any karma. Essentially
      it is
      > the Master acting and not the disciple. The disciple is only the
      agent
      > of the Master, So long as he is acting sincerely and
      wholeheartedly as
      > the agent and disciple of the Master, it is really the Master who
      is
      > acting. When our lives are sincerely dedicated to the path, we
      give up
      > all to the Guru and we think only of doing his commands.
      >
      > Jesus said: If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples
      indeed.
      > (John 8:31)
      >
      > And this is so regarding the disciples of any Master. Inayat Khan,
      a
      > noted Sufi, says: Give us all you have, and we will give you all
      we
      > possess.
      >
      > And in that saying there is much wisdom and a great promise. It
      means
      > that if the disciple gives up allâ€" mind, body, wealth and soul
      â€" to the
      > Master, the Master will in return give the disciple such wealth as
      no
      > king ever possessed. The Master will give him riches that surpass
      all
      > else on earth, and in exchange for the surrender of himself to the
      > Master, he will gain a freedom that makes him master of a
      limitless
      > empire. It is not that the Master wants the disciple's mind or
      body or
      > property. It is for the benefit of the disciple alone that the
      Master
      > asks him to dedicate all to him. Such a gift on the part of the
      > disciple generates more love in the disciple and enables the
      Master to
      > do more for him, and at the same time it protects the disciple
      from
      > making mistakes. [... .]
      >
      > Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright
      1939
      >
      >
      http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
      >
      > *********
      >
      > [...] "Now, if you wish to escape the creation of karma of any
      sort,
      > then whatever you do, must be done in the name of the SUGMAD,
      while
      > acting as his agent. So long as you do that, you will not create
      new
      > karma, because you are acting solely as the agent of another, and
      > always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
      >
      > "You must do this not merely in a ceremonial way, but with your
      entire
      > thought and Soul in it. In deep
      > earnest, you must let yourself do all things, every detail of your
      > life, in the name of the SUGMAD. This will, by necessity, oblige
      you to
      > do only what you think the SUGMAD intends for you to do.
      >
      > "This is the psychology which is a part of the philosophy of
      ECKANKAR.
      > Do every action in the
      > name of the SUGMAD, and you have no responsibility toward any
      living
      > creature in the lower worlds, under the plane of the SUGMAD.
      >
      > "When you approach a task, or a proposed act, you will remember
      that it
      > is to be done in the name of the SUGMAD. You will fix your mind
      merely
      > on the name of the SUGMAD, and in sincerity it will be done as a
      > genuine service.
      >
      > "The SUGMAD does not. The catalytic agent is the ECK power which
      works
      > between you and the
      > SUGMAD. It carries out your action relieving you of the
      responsibility
      > which would otherwise have settled upon your shoulders.
      >
      > "You must remember that nothing is your own. All belongs to the
      SUGMAD,
      > because all creation belongs to the greatest deity, and you use
      your
      > body, mind and Soul as the property of the SUGMAD. The main point
      I am
      > making here is that if you use your mind and your body and
      possessions
      > in the name of the SUGMAD, you are not creating any karma.
      >
      > "Essentially it is the SUGMAD acting and not you. You are merely
      the
      > agent of the SUGMAD, while at the same time the SUGMAD is your
      agent.
      > So long as you are acting sincerely and whole-heartedly as the
      agent of
      > the SUGMAD, it is really the SUGMAD who is acting as your agent.
      >
      > "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that if you give all, you will
      get
      > all. In this saying there is wisdom and a great promise. It means
      that
      > if you give up all, mind, body, wealth and Soul to the SUGMAD, the
      > SUGMAD must by ITS own law serve you in return.[... .]
      >
      > Reportedly, this was Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, by Paul
      > Twitchell, Copyright 1971
      >
      >
      http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Notice that Julian Johnson writes: Inayat Khan, a noted Sufi,
      says:
      > Give us all you have, and we will give you all we possess.
      >
      > Notice that Rebazar Tarzs says: "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said
      that
      > if you give all, you will get all.
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Furthermore, In Paul's Twitchell's book there are other agents of
      the
      > Sugmad. Including the Silent Ones and the Spiritual Travelers.
      >
      > But that's not all. Speaking about the Hindu Trinity, etc., Julian
      > Johnson writes:
      >
      > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents; they carry
      the
      > creative impulses from the greater powers above. But they have
      been
      > given these individual names as persons. It is well to remember
      that
      > all creative currents may become personal, that is, take
      individual
      > form and assume individual duties. Now these three have generally
      been
      > accepted as the Hindu trinity of gods, most commonly known in
      their
      > pantheon. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate
      position.
      > They each perform a certain function in carrying on the work of
      the
      > world, in producing human bodies, and in keeping those bodies
      going.
      > They are agents of the supreme power in serving mankind. They are
      not
      > gods to be worshipped. [... .]
      >
      >
      http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
      >
      > Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs say:
      >
      > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents. They carry
      the
      > creative impulses from the greater powers above, but they have
      been
      > given these individual names, as persons.
      >
      > "It is well to remember that all creative currents may become
      personal;
      > that is, take individual form and assume individual duties, as
      Krishna,
      > Christ, Buddha and others. Now these three have generally been
      accepted
      > as the Hindu trinity of Gods, as commonly known in their
      literature and
      > religion. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate
      position.
      > These powers are the real servants of man. They perform a certain
      > function in carrying on the work of the world, in producing human
      > bodies, and in keeping these bodies going. They are the agents of
      the
      > SUGMAD in serving mankind, but not gods to be worshipped by the
      human
      > race. [... .]
      >
      >
      http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
      >
      > *********
      >
      > It looks like Paul Twitchell plagiarized, paraphrased Julian
      Johnson
      > and then changed his source to Rebazar Tarzs, an Eck Master. If
      this is
      > true, it doesn't mean (IMHO) that Rebazar Tarzs is a real person
      > belonging to a real Eckankar Eck Master lineage. Rather, it looks
      like
      > Rebazar was used as a "literary device" to animate Paul
      Twitchell's
      > writings and the writings he compiled from others. This is more
      than
      > simply plagiarism and paraphrasing. This looks (to me) like the
      > creation of fiction, pseudo man-made history and religion.
      >
      > Somebody show me where this subject is addressed in the Eckankar
      > writings.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: etznab <etznab@...>
      > To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 5:58 pm
      > Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
      >
      >  
      > It might be more than just greed.
      >
      > 1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and
      Eckankar's
      > lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting:
      >
      > "With a wide background of study you will find many similarities
      both
      > approximate and exact in many religious statements, history and
      > mythology. [....] How did you know Johnson didn't obtain his
      > information from Twitchell or Rebazar Tarzs [sic] or some other
      common
      > source? Don't be surprised that many people find the same truths
      and
      > even in the same words, commandments, etc., whether they are
      > concepts, stories of events, or levels of God Worlds or
      consciousness."
      >
      > [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to
      Higher
      > Consciousness, p. 124] 
      >
      > What this tells me is the subject of plagiarism was starting to
      raise
      > it's ugly head in 1977. It wasn't long afterward that Darwin
      announced
      > he and Gail were getting a divorce. Subsequent to that, Darwin
      started
      > looking for someone to take over the "spiritual" side of Eckankar,
      > while Darwin managed the "business" side.
      >
      > Gail would have known about the plagiarisms, IMO, and so would
      Patti
      > Simpson. Gail would also be able to answer questions about the
      identity
      > of Rebazar Tarzs. If it (the truth) wasn't a pretty picture, I
      suspect
      > that neither Gail, nor Patti, nor just about anybody wanted to talk
      > about it publicly because it could implicate them in a 'cover-up';
      > people might ask, Why are you just mentioning this now?
      >
      > It looks like so many people bailed and jumped ship. Gail, Patti,
      > Bluth, etc., etc. Why would anybody do that if Rebazar and the LEM
      were
      > real deals?
      >
      > I think people knew a lot more than they wanted to tell the
      membership.
      > Even to this very day. And I also suspect so many people are
      afraid to
      > speak, or question the LEM. Most especially, Eckankar members.
      > Afterall, Harold Klemp testified that the LEM was an agent for, and
      > agent of God.
      >
      > Example One: (See: agent for God) - Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol
      1,
      > May 30, 1984 page 0008 - line 21.
      >
      >
      http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
      >
      > Example Two: (See: agent of God) Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1,
      May
      > 30, 1984 page 0021 - line 9.
      >
      >
      http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: al_radzik no_reply@yahoogroups.com
      > To: eckankartruth eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:16 pm
      > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
      >
      >  
      > Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that
      > Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming
      evidence
      > has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was
      acquitted.
      >
      > Al
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to
      > eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from
      eckankar.
      > part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any
      copyright
      > issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a
      year
      > for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that
      time,
      > lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
      > >
      >
    • DAVIDP111@aol.com
      In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the Satsang classes. When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify what name he was
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 7, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
         
        Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early 1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
         
        Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged.  "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul, why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote their bible" he'd laugh.
         
        Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World, this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of him??  I don't know.
         
        I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
         
        Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do what she wanted to. 
         
        Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
         
        The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing, but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
        Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think so???
         
         
      • al_radzik
        This is great! ROFLMAO! ... In the 1960 s there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it s just one of many such paths. Nothing unique
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 7, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          This is great! ROFLMAO!

          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
          In the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it's just one of many such paths. Nothing unique about it at all except for the Spiderman principal. "Everyone thinks I'm nothing, but in secret I'm Spiderman!" The gimp little nothing passed over by everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant. A good feeling to have if you have nothing else going for you in your life. Like little Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
        • etznab@aol.com
          Dear Heavens! If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club. In
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Heavens!

            If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I
            think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club.

            In any case, this part in particular concerns me.

            "Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
            printer" for Eckanar in the early years. Paul would send her articles
            to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
            paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
            come from an actual newspaper. This was her light bulb moment to get
            out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died. I use to have a
            bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now."

            I've heard that story (probably from you, under another name) before,
            but the thing is I cannot verify it as true without taking your word
            for it. And at this point (far as Eckankar goes) I'm not wanting to
            take anybody's word for what constitutes the truth unless I can verify
            it for myself by substantial evidence.

            It's because I don't want to invite any more lies. Not from Eckankar.
            Not from members of Eckankar. Not from former members of Eckankar.

            Much of what you've said I (and probably a lot of other people) would
            be hard pressed to verify as true. If I were to mention some of your
            alleged facts and trivia at a round table, or at an official Eckankar
            event? I imagine most people would dismiss the source of that
            information like a turd with no further use and the information (true,
            or not) would get flushed out of sight; probably along with me!

            All I'm saying is that a lot of people exposed to the "Eckankar
            History" experience are hyper sensitive about accepting ANYTHING as
            true unless they can verify it for themselves. So at this point if you
            really want to convince (these kind of) people about anything then it
            has to be accompanied by substantial evidence that is credible and that
            people can easily verify for themselves. Another reason is that
            Eckankar apologists can mold information like clay and turn it into
            anything they want unless you can first prove it an absolute true and
            hardened fact.

            People hounded me for years about the topic of plagiarism and Rebazar
            Tarzs whenever I brought it up on a.r.e. That and a lot of other
            things. They told me what I was saying, reframed my information, spun
            it in another way, or changed the subject completely. Finally, I
            realized I had to make my point based on substance. So I gave them
            substance. I illustrated the quotes by Paul Twitchell, by Eckankar and
            (allegedly) by Rebazar Tarzs and other Eck Masters, but I also included
            the sources and writings of other people side by side (with links and
            page numbers so they could verify it for themselves.). With other
            issues I illustrated what the record(s) had to say as well. So it
            wasn't just my opinion that I was sharing anymore. It was information
            that anybody could see for themselves. Information that could be
            verified. It was something that could not be dumped.

            So this has been my experience. It makes a lot of difference if you can
            prove what you're saying is true. It makes a lot of difference if
            people can verify it easily. In that case ... well, you can rest your
            case.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
            To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:43 pm
            Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

             
            In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the
            Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify
            what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in
            Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar
            Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the
            same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing
            we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we
            were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because
            we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and
            the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
             
            Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early
            1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
             
            Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both
            Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story
            as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting
            enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World
            about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged. 
            "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth
            will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel
            conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including
            Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger
            would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul,
            why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote
            their bible" he'd laugh.
             
            Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted
            Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World,
            this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck
            Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I
            warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would
            not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was
            paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to
            reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it
            was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his
            reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of
            him??  I don't know.
             
            I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original
            manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not
            sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in
            Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of
            Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in
            Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie
            Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat
            Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last
            name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck
            seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them
            removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
             
            Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck
            Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom
            she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the
            time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the
            next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She
            fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do
            what she wanted to. 
             
            Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
            printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles
            to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
            paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
            come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get
            out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have
            a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
             
            The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's
            the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences
            there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new
            clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all
            the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In
            the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age
            stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at
            all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing,
            but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by
            everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to
            have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little
            Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
            Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big
            carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation
            THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think
            so???
             
             
          • Doug Street
            Well I don t really need to prove anything from my point of view..lol...I m so sorry you had this experiance and most ashamed of Pauls disgracing of my Papas
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Well I don't really need to prove anything from my point of view..lol...I'm so sorry you had this experiance and most ashamed of Pauls disgracing of my Papas name, I wish you had never delved in friend...and thats my message, to you and to who knows how many have been lied to looking for that inner peace.,  you know that true inner peace come's only from Christ because the spirit bears witness to you daily,
               Now I am just Jacob Twitchells Grandson, packing the Good news,  and my message to X Ecks and current Ecks is this...Jesus loves you man, regardless of Paul and the Ecks and what crazy left overs are in your mind.
               
              Be yea released from that demonic power of spiritual oppression in the Name of Jesus. Amen
               
              I'm done here. Thank you mod for allowing me this time.
               
              Best regards,
              Douglas A Street, devoted Grandson

               

              To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
              From: etznab@...
              Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:51:24 -0400
              Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

               

              Dear Heavens!

              If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I
              think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club.

              In any case, this part in particular concerns me.

              "Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
              printer" for Eckanar in the early years. Paul would send her articles
              to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
              paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
              come from an actual newspaper. This was her light bulb moment to get
              out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died. I use to have a
              bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now."

              I've heard that story (probably from you, under another name) before,
              but the thing is I cannot verify it as true without taking your word
              for it. And at this point (far as Eckankar goes) I'm not wanting to
              take anybody's word for what constitutes the truth unless I can verify
              it for myself by substantial evidence.

              It's because I don't want to invite any more lies. Not from Eckankar.
              Not from members of Eckankar. Not from former members of Eckankar.

              Much of what you've said I (and probably a lot of other people) would
              be hard pressed to verify as true. If I were to mention some of your
              alleged facts and trivia at a round table, or at an official Eckankar
              event? I imagine most people would dismiss the source of that
              information like a turd with no further use and the information (true,
              or not) would get flushed out of sight; probably along with me!

              All I'm saying is that a lot of people exposed to the "Eckankar
              History" experience are hyper sensitive about accepting ANYTHING as
              true unless they can verify it for themselves. So at this point if you
              really want to convince (these kind of) people about anything then it
              has to be accompanied by substantial evidence that is credible and that
              people can easily verify for themselves. Another reason is that
              Eckankar apologists can mold information like clay and turn it into
              anything they want unless you can first prove it an absolute true and
              hardened fact.

              People hounded me for years about the topic of plagiarism and Rebazar
              Tarzs whenever I brought it up on a.r.e. That and a lot of other
              things. They told me what I was saying, reframed my information, spun
              it in another way, or changed the subject completely. Finally, I
              realized I had to make my point based on substance. So I gave them
              substance. I illustrated the quotes by Paul Twitchell, by Eckankar and
              (allegedly) by Rebazar Tarzs and other Eck Masters, but I also included
              the sources and writings of other people side by side (with links and
              page numbers so they could verify it for themselves.). With other
              issues I illustrated what the record(s) had to say as well. So it
              wasn't just my opinion that I was sharing anymore. It was information
              that anybody could see for themselves. Information that could be
              verified. It was something that could not be dumped.

              So this has been my experience. It makes a lot of difference if you can
              prove what you're saying is true. It makes a lot of difference if
              people can verify it easily. In that case ... well, you can rest your
              case.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
              To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:43 pm
              Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

               
              In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the
              Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify
              what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in
              Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar
              Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the
              same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing
              we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we
              were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because
              we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and
              the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
               
              Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early
              1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
               
              Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both
              Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story
              as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting
              enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World
              about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged. 
              "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth
              will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel
              conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including
              Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger
              would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul,
              why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote
              their bible" he'd laugh.
               
              Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted
              Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World,
              this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck
              Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I
              warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would
              not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was
              paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to
              reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it
              was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his
              reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of
              him??  I don't know.
               
              I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original
              manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not
              sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in
              Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of
              Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in
              Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie
              Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat
              Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last
              name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck
              seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them
              removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
               
              Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck
              Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom
              she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the
              time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the
              next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She
              fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do
              what she wanted to. 
               
              Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
              printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles
              to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
              paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
              come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get
              out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have
              a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
               
              The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's
              the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences
              there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new
              clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all
              the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In
              the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age
              stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at
              all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing,
              but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by
              everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to
              have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little
              Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
              Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big
              carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation
              THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think
              so???
               
               


            • Pete Chown
              Doug, ... If only life was that simple. Pete
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Doug,

                > Be yea released from that demonic power of spiritual oppression in the
                > Name of Jesus. Amen

                If only life was that simple.

                Pete
              • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                Ok, I m not wanting to get sucked into this again. I did some major typing years ago and maybe it was the ARE group, not sure, but got such attacks by those
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ok, I'm not wanting to get sucked into this again.  I did some major typing years ago and maybe it was the ARE group, not sure, but got such attacks by those that are professionally 'neutral.'  the Twitch stuff I had is scattered to those that were going to take it forward.  I went to Paducah years ago in hopes to find some old pics of Paul, never doubting his history, till I met his family and heard their side of In My Soul.
                   
                  I knew Paul, I loved Paul, I shared his last meal on this planet with him. I was one of the first to see him in death.  For what ever reason he spiced things up a bit, he was a salesman.  I've over the hurt and the pain, that was 30 years ago.  In the anguish Eckankar had over the truth coming out there were many bad feelings on both sides.  Many many Eckists where hurt, and hurt badly.  Seeking truth and get told lies. 
                   
                  I think Harold has answered this question passively, but answered it well.  Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology.  No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened.  Poof, gone.  That's the answer to the plagiarism question.  If the writings were non in question why not still publish them?  In My Soul is not printed either.  I guess the idea is to wait till all those that were with Paul and Darwin at the time to die off, then it's totally forgotten.
                   
                  I remember opening up one of Paul's books after I had been to Paducah and read the first page I opened to.  I forget the book but the answer was perfect.  it went something like this "if a master spoke of God and light and truth the chelas would yawn and sleep, but if he told fanciful tales of adventure and excitement mixed with truth the chelas would sit on the edge of their chairs listening to hear more." 
                   
                  At the time I contacted Phil Donahue and Tom Snyder, both had had Darwin on their shows, to do a live polygraph with Darwin and any of us that questioned.  Of course Darwin declined and the topic was dropped.  Darwin was livid.  Several of us had news that one of the heirs to the 7-up fortune was to leave Eckankar many millions of $$.  We contacted them with our info, and later when David Lane's book came out sent them a copy and Eck was written out of the estate, as I recall, the amount was over $30M they lost.  Also the history of the Helen Frye estate of $8M those of us that came forward and testified against Eckankar and Darwin personally, they lost badly.  Darwin and his henchmen were livid. 
                   
                  Helen wondered why several of her multiple $100,000. donations was deposited into a separate account and not Eckankar's, she hired investigators and ended up discovering the account was in Darwin's name.  That with the Twitchell family secrets uncovered Helen withdrew her will and Darwin/Eckankar lost out another $8Million.  Eckankar was suing the estate and Helen's family for the land/money, but lost badly.  Darwin in court could barely speak, druged and drunk out of his mind.
                   
                  This stuff went on and on.  It took me years to get over it.  Eckankar has a wonderful truth, if you can snag it through the crap.  My lesson through all of this is to call no one Master.  To listen, wonder what that person is after, get what lessons I can and be happy with that.  Also learned never to join a religous group again.
                   
                  Eckankar could have been a strong spiritual path but I guess Paul didn't have faith in it or in himself.  He had to lie about his history, the history of Eckankar and copy the writings of others without giving credit.   Right from the beginning it was failing it's mission.  He failed to live up the title he had given himself. If I run into an Eckists I say nothing of this.  If they are having a good experience and learning that's their path and not my place to upset them.  I don't know what goes on in Eckankar now, I guess I figured it kind of cleaned itself up.  Hopefully one of 3 masters will do the honest thing.
                   
                   
                • al_radzik
                  I don t understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 25, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.

                    http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html


                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:

                    Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                  • michael112658
                    Actually, last time I checked (which was a few weeks ago) Eckankar still carries several of Paul s books (including Stranger, Flute and Shariyat) and most of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 26, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Actually, last time I checked (which was a few weeks ago) Eckankar still carries several of Paul's books (including Stranger, Flute and Shariyat) and most of his recordings.

                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.
                      >
                      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                      >
                      > Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                      >
                    • Non
                      I knew an eckist several years ago when there was the debacle of eck defectors leaving the path once plagiarism from Path of the Master and Ford Johnson was
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 26, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I knew an eckist several years ago when there was the debacle of eck defectors leaving the "path" once plagiarism from Path of the Master and Ford Johnson was made obvious. However, a once true believer in Twit and then Gross, he then said that Gross was like Darth Vader from Star Wars. Nothing will ever sway this person from eckankar, ever, inspite of his many health problems and also mental health issues. Gross became just another part of the drama of eckankar's rationalized mythology. Once hooked, it seems to be impossible for some to get that fish hook out. Plus they have always been intellectually weak anyway. Doubt is so much despised, don't dare question the lame living eck master.

                        noneckster ; )

                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.
                        >
                        > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                        >
                        > Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                        >
                      • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                        When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print. He is given credit for
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 27, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print.  He is given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many years.  It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's books are now gone.  Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations?  Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                           
                          My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof, he's gone.  Problem solved.
                           
                           
                          I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was a lot of money back then.  They were typed and specific for that chela that paid for the service.  The typed reading was secret, never to be shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative reactions.  One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so simular so they pulled them out and compared.  Each one was exactly like the other, word for word.  I remember they were about 20-25 pages.  Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where sold as being specific for that chela.  I wonder how many he duped doing that?  Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                        • etznab@aol.com
                          A number of books were discontinued and I can see your point. It s too general a statement though to suggest that Paul s stuff (including tapes) is no longer
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 27, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            A number of books were discontinued and I can see your point. It's too
                            general a statement though to suggest that Paul's stuff (including
                            tapes) is no longer in print, etc.

                            http://www.eckbooks.org/catalog/Talks_by_Paul_Twitchell-26-1.html

                            Paul's tapes go all the way back to 1966.

                            http://www.eckbooks.org/catalog/Talks_by_Paul_Twitchell-26-1.html

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
                            To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Fri, Jul 27, 2012 8:03 pm
                            Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                             
                            When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the
                            books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print.  He is
                            given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many
                            years.  It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got
                            his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's
                            books are now gone.  Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations? 
                            Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                             
                            My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof,
                            he's gone.  Problem solved.
                             
                             
                            I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was
                            a lot of money back then.  They were typed and specific for that chela
                            that paid for the service.  The typed reading was secret, never to be
                            shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative
                            reactions.  One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were
                            talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so
                            simular so they pulled them out and compared.  Each one was exactly
                            like the other, word for word.  I remember they were about 20-25
                            pages.  Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where
                            sold as being specific for that chela.  I wonder how many he duped
                            doing that?  Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                          • michael112658
                            FYI, the following books by Paul Twitchell are still available through Eckankar: The Drums of Eck The Eck Vidya, Ancient Science of Prophecy Eckankar: The Key
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 28, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              FYI, the following books by Paul Twitchell are still available through Eckankar:

                              The Drums of Eck
                              The Eck Vidya, Ancient Science of Prophecy
                              Eckankar: The Key to Secret Worlds
                              The Flute of God
                              Herbs, The Magic Healers
                              The Key to Eckankar
                              The Spiritual Notebook
                              Stranger by the River
                              Talons of Time
                              The Tiger's Fang

                              Most of his tapes are still around, too.

                              Peace out.

                              Michael

                              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print. He is given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many years. It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's books are now gone. Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations? Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                              >
                              > My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof, he's gone. Problem solved.
                              >
                              >
                              > I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was a lot of money back then. They were typed and specific for that chela that paid for the service. The typed reading was secret, never to be shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative reactions. One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so simular so they pulled them out and compared. Each one was exactly like the other, word for word. I remember they were about 20-25 pages. Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where sold as being specific for that chela. I wonder how many he duped doing that? Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                              >
                            • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                              I was going by the last printed eckankar catalog I had seen and had no tape of of Pauls listed (this was years ago). I guess it s nice that Twitchell is still
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 28, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I was going by the last printed eckankar catalog I had seen and had no tape of of Pauls listed (this was years ago).  I guess it's nice that Twitchell is still remembered in eckankar at least via his talks.  I suppose no issues were risen by the talks, just his written works.
                                 
                                 
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.