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Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

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  • al_radzik
    You are a very thorough chronicler of Eckankar my friend. I m just curious as to how and why you ve come to be the latest and perhaps one of the last
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 6, 2012
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      You are a very thorough chronicler of Eckankar my friend. I'm just curious as to how and why you've come to be the latest and perhaps one of the last "detractors" on alt.religion.eckankar.
      Most folks in this group have already been through a dramatic exchange with various Eckists on that newsgroup since the mid 90's. There have been websites dedicated to the naysayers. Employers and families of detractors have been notified of our "disrespectful" attitudes towards Eckankar and many threats have been made.
      I don't know if you were around then under a pseudonym or were just a "whippersnapper" during that heyday but there were certainly some interesting folks in the hallowed cyberhalls of a.r.e.:

      Eckists included:
      Rich Smith - Hawaii's very own cybersailor who went through an enormous effort to get my personal phone number and publish it so others could call and harass me. He actually called my mother up and tricked her into believing he was an old friend of mine.
      Joe Homsey a.k.a. (Joey Galuuk)
      Cheryl Gruendemann
      Michael Wallace and his girlfriend Bee: Two Australian nutjobs.Michael now runs a website called numberharmonics.com and Bee was some punk rocking little gnat who wrote and published songs about me on the Internet.
      Rita Crorkin (a.k.a Windy)
      Jessica Weiss - Eck Nazi-Feminist
      Richard Pickett - Administrator at Duke University with his buddy Joe Polonis
      Diamond Star - Schizoid woman from Washington State who claimed the FBI was putting cameras in her microwave
      and the list goes on......


      Sharon was the chief detractor. She made life for them a living hell because she was a long time Eckist and climbed the fence one day never to look back again.

      David Lane: nuff said

      arelurker: A very articulate poster who kept his identity safe from everyone. They tried so hard to find out who he was but he was very smart and always stayed one step ahead of them. He really knew how to rile the Eckists up!!!

      I could go on and on but we all got bored with it and just left one sunny afternoon. The place has never been the same.

      For some reason I thought you were an Eckie at one time, Etznab.




      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Considering the idea of agents for and of God, the LEM (Living Eck
      > Master) was / is apparently NOT called the one and only (as will be
      > shown later in Paul Twitchell's writings).
      >
      > Some excerpts (and trying to correct for typos) from Julian Johnson use
      > the word "Master" where Paul Twitchell (or should I say, Rebazar
      > Tarzs?) used "Sugmad" (a word of "God").:
      >
      > [...] Now, if the Master's disciple wishes to escape the creation of
      > karma of any sort, let him do whatever he does in the name of the
      > Master, acting as his agent. So long as he does that, he will not
      > create new karma, because he is acting solely as the agent of another,
      > and always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent. But
      > he must do this not merely in a ceremonial way but
      > with his entire thought and soul in it. In deep earnest let him do all
      > things, every detail of his life, in the name of his Master. This will,
      > per necessity, oblige him to do only what he thinks his Master will
      > approve of. When he approaches a task or a proposed act, he will
      > remember that it is to be done in the name of the Master. He will fix
      > his mind on the Master, and then in love and devotion he will
      > do the work as a genuine service to the Master and in his name. He will
      > remember that nothing is his own. All belongs to the Master because he
      > has dedicated all to the Masterâ€" even his mind and his body, as well as
      > his property. So he must use them all as if he were using the property
      > of another, and use them exactly as he believes the owner would like to
      > have him use them. [...] But the main point under consideration here is
      > that if the disciple uses his mind and his body and his wealth all in
      > the name of the Master, he is not creating any karma. Essentially it is
      > the Master acting and not the disciple. The disciple is only the agent
      > of the Master, So long as he is acting sincerely and wholeheartedly as
      > the agent and disciple of the Master, it is really the Master who is
      > acting. When our lives are sincerely dedicated to the path, we give up
      > all to the Guru and we think only of doing his commands.
      >
      > Jesus said: If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.
      > (John 8:31)
      >
      > And this is so regarding the disciples of any Master. Inayat Khan, a
      > noted Sufi, says: Give us all you have, and we will give you all we
      > possess.
      >
      > And in that saying there is much wisdom and a great promise. It means
      > that if the disciple gives up allâ€" mind, body, wealth and soul â€" to the
      > Master, the Master will in return give the disciple such wealth as no
      > king ever possessed. The Master will give him riches that surpass all
      > else on earth, and in exchange for the surrender of himself to the
      > Master, he will gain a freedom that makes him master of a limitless
      > empire. It is not that the Master wants the disciple's mind or body or
      > property. It is for the benefit of the disciple alone that the Master
      > asks him to dedicate all to him. Such a gift on the part of the
      > disciple generates more love in the disciple and enables the Master to
      > do more for him, and at the same time it protects the disciple from
      > making mistakes. [... .]
      >
      > Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright 1939
      >
      > http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
      >
      > *********
      >
      > [...] "Now, if you wish to escape the creation of karma of any sort,
      > then whatever you do, must be done in the name of the SUGMAD, while
      > acting as his agent. So long as you do that, you will not create new
      > karma, because you are acting solely as the agent of another, and
      > always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
      >
      > "You must do this not merely in a ceremonial way, but with your entire
      > thought and Soul in it. In deep
      > earnest, you must let yourself do all things, every detail of your
      > life, in the name of the SUGMAD. This will, by necessity, oblige you to
      > do only what you think the SUGMAD intends for you to do.
      >
      > "This is the psychology which is a part of the philosophy of ECKANKAR.
      > Do every action in the
      > name of the SUGMAD, and you have no responsibility toward any living
      > creature in the lower worlds, under the plane of the SUGMAD.
      >
      > "When you approach a task, or a proposed act, you will remember that it
      > is to be done in the name of the SUGMAD. You will fix your mind merely
      > on the name of the SUGMAD, and in sincerity it will be done as a
      > genuine service.
      >
      > "The SUGMAD does not. The catalytic agent is the ECK power which works
      > between you and the
      > SUGMAD. It carries out your action relieving you of the responsibility
      > which would otherwise have settled upon your shoulders.
      >
      > "You must remember that nothing is your own. All belongs to the SUGMAD,
      > because all creation belongs to the greatest deity, and you use your
      > body, mind and Soul as the property of the SUGMAD. The main point I am
      > making here is that if you use your mind and your body and possessions
      > in the name of the SUGMAD, you are not creating any karma.
      >
      > "Essentially it is the SUGMAD acting and not you. You are merely the
      > agent of the SUGMAD, while at the same time the SUGMAD is your agent.
      > So long as you are acting sincerely and whole-heartedly as the agent of
      > the SUGMAD, it is really the SUGMAD who is acting as your agent.
      >
      > "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that if you give all, you will get
      > all. In this saying there is wisdom and a great promise. It means that
      > if you give up all, mind, body, wealth and Soul to the SUGMAD, the
      > SUGMAD must by ITS own law serve you in return.[... .]
      >
      > Reportedly, this was Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, by Paul
      > Twitchell, Copyright 1971
      >
      > http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Notice that Julian Johnson writes: Inayat Khan, a noted Sufi, says:
      > Give us all you have, and we will give you all we possess.
      >
      > Notice that Rebazar Tarzs says: "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that
      > if you give all, you will get all.
      >
      > *********
      >
      > Furthermore, In Paul's Twitchell's book there are other agents of the
      > Sugmad. Including the Silent Ones and the Spiritual Travelers.
      >
      > But that's not all. Speaking about the Hindu Trinity, etc., Julian
      > Johnson writes:
      >
      > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents; they carry the
      > creative impulses from the greater powers above. But they have been
      > given these individual names as persons. It is well to remember that
      > all creative currents may become personal, that is, take individual
      > form and assume individual duties. Now these three have generally been
      > accepted as the Hindu trinity of gods, most commonly known in their
      > pantheon. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate position.
      > They each perform a certain function in carrying on the work of the
      > world, in producing human bodies, and in keeping those bodies going.
      > They are agents of the supreme power in serving mankind. They are not
      > gods to be worshipped. [... .]
      >
      > http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
      >
      > Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs say:
      >
      > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents. They carry the
      > creative impulses from the greater powers above, but they have been
      > given these individual names, as persons.
      >
      > "It is well to remember that all creative currents may become personal;
      > that is, take individual form and assume individual duties, as Krishna,
      > Christ, Buddha and others. Now these three have generally been accepted
      > as the Hindu trinity of Gods, as commonly known in their literature and
      > religion. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate position.
      > These powers are the real servants of man. They perform a certain
      > function in carrying on the work of the world, in producing human
      > bodies, and in keeping these bodies going. They are the agents of the
      > SUGMAD in serving mankind, but not gods to be worshipped by the human
      > race. [... .]
      >
      > http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
      >
      > *********
      >
      > It looks like Paul Twitchell plagiarized, paraphrased Julian Johnson
      > and then changed his source to Rebazar Tarzs, an Eck Master. If this is
      > true, it doesn't mean (IMHO) that Rebazar Tarzs is a real person
      > belonging to a real Eckankar Eck Master lineage. Rather, it looks like
      > Rebazar was used as a "literary device" to animate Paul Twitchell's
      > writings and the writings he compiled from others. This is more than
      > simply plagiarism and paraphrasing. This looks (to me) like the
      > creation of fiction, pseudo man-made history and religion.
      >
      > Somebody show me where this subject is addressed in the Eckankar
      > writings.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: etznab <etznab@...>
      > To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 5:58 pm
      > Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
      >
      >  
      > It might be more than just greed.
      >
      > 1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and Eckankar's
      > lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting:
      >
      > "With a wide background of study you will find many similarities both
      > approximate and exact in many religious statements, history and
      > mythology. [....] How did you know Johnson didn't obtain his
      > information from Twitchell or Rebazar Tarzs [sic] or some other common
      > source? Don't be surprised that many people find the same truths and
      > even in the same words, commandments, etc., whether they are
      > concepts, stories of events, or levels of God Worlds or consciousness."
      >
      > [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
      > Consciousness, p. 124] 
      >
      > What this tells me is the subject of plagiarism was starting to raise
      > it's ugly head in 1977. It wasn't long afterward that Darwin announced
      > he and Gail were getting a divorce. Subsequent to that, Darwin started
      > looking for someone to take over the "spiritual" side of Eckankar,
      > while Darwin managed the "business" side.
      >
      > Gail would have known about the plagiarisms, IMO, and so would Patti
      > Simpson. Gail would also be able to answer questions about the identity
      > of Rebazar Tarzs. If it (the truth) wasn't a pretty picture, I suspect
      > that neither Gail, nor Patti, nor just about anybody wanted to talk
      > about it publicly because it could implicate them in a 'cover-up';
      > people might ask, Why are you just mentioning this now?
      >
      > It looks like so many people bailed and jumped ship. Gail, Patti,
      > Bluth, etc., etc. Why would anybody do that if Rebazar and the LEM were
      > real deals?
      >
      > I think people knew a lot more than they wanted to tell the membership.
      > Even to this very day. And I also suspect so many people are afraid to
      > speak, or question the LEM. Most especially, Eckankar members.
      > Afterall, Harold Klemp testified that the LEM was an agent for, and
      > agent of God.
      >
      > Example One: (See: agent for God) - Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1,
      > May 30, 1984 page 0008 - line 21.
      >
      > http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
      >
      > Example Two: (See: agent of God) Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1, May
      > 30, 1984 page 0021 - line 9.
      >
      > http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: al_radzik no_reply@yahoogroups.com
      > To: eckankartruth eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:16 pm
      > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
      >
      >  
      > Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that
      > Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming evidence
      > has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was acquitted.
      >
      > Al
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to
      > eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from eckankar.
      > part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any copyright
      > issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a year
      > for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that time,
      > lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
      > >
      >
    • etznab@aol.com
      I wasn t around a.r.e. in the 1990s. Started posting on Truthseeker BB around 2005, I think, and then moved over to posting on mostly a.r.e. after Ford s BB
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 6, 2012
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        I wasn't around a.r.e. in the 1990s. Started posting on Truthseeker BB
        around 2005, I think, and then moved over to posting on mostly a.r.e.
        after Ford's BB ended around 2007. I've had to learn about the early
        days in retrospect.

        If Eckankar ever dumps the fiction and replaces it with fact, I will be
        there to applaud. Even if I'm the only one who stayed around to see it
        happen. In the mean time, while waiting, I want to learn as much about
        the truth as I can. So when people ask me questions about Eckankar and
        the history I will not have to serve them up another pat answer, or
        myth.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, Jul 6, 2012 11:09 pm
        Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

         
        You are a very thorough chronicler of Eckankar my friend. I'm just
        curious as to how and why you've come to be the latest and perhaps one
        of the last "detractors" on alt.religion.eckankar.
        Most folks in this group have already been through a dramatic exchange
        with various Eckists on that newsgroup since the mid 90's. There have
        been websites dedicated to the naysayers. Employers and families of
        detractors have been notified of our "disrespectful" attitudes towards
        Eckankar and many threats have been made.
        I don't know if you were around then under a pseudonym or were just a
        "whippersnapper" during that heyday but there were certainly some
        interesting folks in the hallowed cyberhalls of a.r.e.:

        Eckists included:
        Rich Smith - Hawaii's very own cybersailor who went through an enormous
        effort to get my personal phone number and publish it so others could
        call and harass me. He actually called my mother up and tricked her
        into believing he was an old friend of mine.
        Joe Homsey a.k.a. (Joey Galuuk)
        Cheryl Gruendemann
        Michael Wallace and his girlfriend Bee: Two Australian nutjobs.Michael
        now runs a website called numberharmonics.com and Bee was some punk
        rocking little gnat who wrote and published songs about me on the
        Internet.
        Rita Crorkin (a.k.a Windy)
        Jessica Weiss - Eck Nazi-Feminist
        Richard Pickett - Administrator at Duke University with his buddy Joe
        Polonis
        Diamond Star - Schizoid woman from Washington State who claimed the FBI
        was putting cameras in her microwave
        and the list goes on......

        Sharon was the chief detractor. She made life for them a living hell
        because she was a long time Eckist and climbed the fence one day never
        to look back again.

        David Lane: nuff said

        arelurker: A very articulate poster who kept his identity safe from
        everyone. They tried so hard to find out who he was but he was very
        smart and always stayed one step ahead of them. He really knew how to
        rile the Eckists up!!!

        I could go on and on but we all got bored with it and just left one
        sunny afternoon. The place has never been the same.

        For some reason I thought you were an Eckie at one time, Etznab.

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Considering the idea of agents for and of God, the LEM (Living Eck
        > Master) was / is apparently NOT called the one and only (as will
        be
        > shown later in Paul Twitchell's writings).
        >
        > Some excerpts (and trying to correct for typos) from Julian
        Johnson use
        > the word "Master" where Paul Twitchell (or should I say, Rebazar
        > Tarzs?) used "Sugmad" (a word of "God").:
        >
        > [...] Now, if the Master's disciple wishes to escape the creation
        of
        > karma of any sort, let him do whatever he does in the name of the
        > Master, acting as his agent. So long as he does that, he will not
        > create new karma, because he is acting solely as the agent of
        another,
        > and always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
        But
        > he must do this not merely in a ceremonial way but
        > with his entire thought and soul in it. In deep earnest let him do
        all
        > things, every detail of his life, in the name of his Master. This
        will,
        > per necessity, oblige him to do only what he thinks his Master
        will
        > approve of. When he approaches a task or a proposed act, he will
        > remember that it is to be done in the name of the Master. He will
        fix
        > his mind on the Master, and then in love and devotion he will
        > do the work as a genuine service to the Master and in his name. He
        will
        > remember that nothing is his own. All belongs to the Master
        because he
        > has dedicated all to the Masterâ€" even his mind and his body, as
        well as
        > his property. So he must use them all as if he were using the
        property
        > of another, and use them exactly as he believes the owner would
        like to
        > have him use them. [...] But the main point under consideration
        here is
        > that if the disciple uses his mind and his body and his wealth all
        in
        > the name of the Master, he is not creating any karma. Essentially
        it is
        > the Master acting and not the disciple. The disciple is only the
        agent
        > of the Master, So long as he is acting sincerely and
        wholeheartedly as
        > the agent and disciple of the Master, it is really the Master who
        is
        > acting. When our lives are sincerely dedicated to the path, we
        give up
        > all to the Guru and we think only of doing his commands.
        >
        > Jesus said: If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples
        indeed.
        > (John 8:31)
        >
        > And this is so regarding the disciples of any Master. Inayat Khan,
        a
        > noted Sufi, says: Give us all you have, and we will give you all
        we
        > possess.
        >
        > And in that saying there is much wisdom and a great promise. It
        means
        > that if the disciple gives up allâ€" mind, body, wealth and soul
        â€" to the
        > Master, the Master will in return give the disciple such wealth as
        no
        > king ever possessed. The Master will give him riches that surpass
        all
        > else on earth, and in exchange for the surrender of himself to the
        > Master, he will gain a freedom that makes him master of a
        limitless
        > empire. It is not that the Master wants the disciple's mind or
        body or
        > property. It is for the benefit of the disciple alone that the
        Master
        > asks him to dedicate all to him. Such a gift on the part of the
        > disciple generates more love in the disciple and enables the
        Master to
        > do more for him, and at the same time it protects the disciple
        from
        > making mistakes. [... .]
        >
        > Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright
        1939
        >
        >
        http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
        >
        > *********
        >
        > [...] "Now, if you wish to escape the creation of karma of any
        sort,
        > then whatever you do, must be done in the name of the SUGMAD,
        while
        > acting as his agent. So long as you do that, you will not create
        new
        > karma, because you are acting solely as the agent of another, and
        > always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
        >
        > "You must do this not merely in a ceremonial way, but with your
        entire
        > thought and Soul in it. In deep
        > earnest, you must let yourself do all things, every detail of your
        > life, in the name of the SUGMAD. This will, by necessity, oblige
        you to
        > do only what you think the SUGMAD intends for you to do.
        >
        > "This is the psychology which is a part of the philosophy of
        ECKANKAR.
        > Do every action in the
        > name of the SUGMAD, and you have no responsibility toward any
        living
        > creature in the lower worlds, under the plane of the SUGMAD.
        >
        > "When you approach a task, or a proposed act, you will remember
        that it
        > is to be done in the name of the SUGMAD. You will fix your mind
        merely
        > on the name of the SUGMAD, and in sincerity it will be done as a
        > genuine service.
        >
        > "The SUGMAD does not. The catalytic agent is the ECK power which
        works
        > between you and the
        > SUGMAD. It carries out your action relieving you of the
        responsibility
        > which would otherwise have settled upon your shoulders.
        >
        > "You must remember that nothing is your own. All belongs to the
        SUGMAD,
        > because all creation belongs to the greatest deity, and you use
        your
        > body, mind and Soul as the property of the SUGMAD. The main point
        I am
        > making here is that if you use your mind and your body and
        possessions
        > in the name of the SUGMAD, you are not creating any karma.
        >
        > "Essentially it is the SUGMAD acting and not you. You are merely
        the
        > agent of the SUGMAD, while at the same time the SUGMAD is your
        agent.
        > So long as you are acting sincerely and whole-heartedly as the
        agent of
        > the SUGMAD, it is really the SUGMAD who is acting as your agent.
        >
        > "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that if you give all, you will
        get
        > all. In this saying there is wisdom and a great promise. It means
        that
        > if you give up all, mind, body, wealth and Soul to the SUGMAD, the
        > SUGMAD must by ITS own law serve you in return.[... .]
        >
        > Reportedly, this was Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, by Paul
        > Twitchell, Copyright 1971
        >
        >
        http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
        >
        > *********
        >
        > Notice that Julian Johnson writes: Inayat Khan, a noted Sufi,
        says:
        > Give us all you have, and we will give you all we possess.
        >
        > Notice that Rebazar Tarzs says: "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said
        that
        > if you give all, you will get all.
        >
        > *********
        >
        > Furthermore, In Paul's Twitchell's book there are other agents of
        the
        > Sugmad. Including the Silent Ones and the Spiritual Travelers.
        >
        > But that's not all. Speaking about the Hindu Trinity, etc., Julian
        > Johnson writes:
        >
        > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents; they carry
        the
        > creative impulses from the greater powers above. But they have
        been
        > given these individual names as persons. It is well to remember
        that
        > all creative currents may become personal, that is, take
        individual
        > form and assume individual duties. Now these three have generally
        been
        > accepted as the Hindu trinity of gods, most commonly known in
        their
        > pantheon. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate
        position.
        > They each perform a certain function in carrying on the work of
        the
        > world, in producing human bodies, and in keeping those bodies
        going.
        > They are agents of the supreme power in serving mankind. They are
        not
        > gods to be worshipped. [... .]
        >
        >
        http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
        >
        > Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs say:
        >
        > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents. They carry
        the
        > creative impulses from the greater powers above, but they have
        been
        > given these individual names, as persons.
        >
        > "It is well to remember that all creative currents may become
        personal;
        > that is, take individual form and assume individual duties, as
        Krishna,
        > Christ, Buddha and others. Now these three have generally been
        accepted
        > as the Hindu trinity of Gods, as commonly known in their
        literature and
        > religion. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate
        position.
        > These powers are the real servants of man. They perform a certain
        > function in carrying on the work of the world, in producing human
        > bodies, and in keeping these bodies going. They are the agents of
        the
        > SUGMAD in serving mankind, but not gods to be worshipped by the
        human
        > race. [... .]
        >
        >
        http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
        >
        > *********
        >
        > It looks like Paul Twitchell plagiarized, paraphrased Julian
        Johnson
        > and then changed his source to Rebazar Tarzs, an Eck Master. If
        this is
        > true, it doesn't mean (IMHO) that Rebazar Tarzs is a real person
        > belonging to a real Eckankar Eck Master lineage. Rather, it looks
        like
        > Rebazar was used as a "literary device" to animate Paul
        Twitchell's
        > writings and the writings he compiled from others. This is more
        than
        > simply plagiarism and paraphrasing. This looks (to me) like the
        > creation of fiction, pseudo man-made history and religion.
        >
        > Somebody show me where this subject is addressed in the Eckankar
        > writings.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: etznab <etznab@...>
        > To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 5:58 pm
        > Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
        >
        >  
        > It might be more than just greed.
        >
        > 1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and
        Eckankar's
        > lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting:
        >
        > "With a wide background of study you will find many similarities
        both
        > approximate and exact in many religious statements, history and
        > mythology. [....] How did you know Johnson didn't obtain his
        > information from Twitchell or Rebazar Tarzs [sic] or some other
        common
        > source? Don't be surprised that many people find the same truths
        and
        > even in the same words, commandments, etc., whether they are
        > concepts, stories of events, or levels of God Worlds or
        consciousness."
        >
        > [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to
        Higher
        > Consciousness, p. 124] 
        >
        > What this tells me is the subject of plagiarism was starting to
        raise
        > it's ugly head in 1977. It wasn't long afterward that Darwin
        announced
        > he and Gail were getting a divorce. Subsequent to that, Darwin
        started
        > looking for someone to take over the "spiritual" side of Eckankar,
        > while Darwin managed the "business" side.
        >
        > Gail would have known about the plagiarisms, IMO, and so would
        Patti
        > Simpson. Gail would also be able to answer questions about the
        identity
        > of Rebazar Tarzs. If it (the truth) wasn't a pretty picture, I
        suspect
        > that neither Gail, nor Patti, nor just about anybody wanted to talk
        > about it publicly because it could implicate them in a 'cover-up';
        > people might ask, Why are you just mentioning this now?
        >
        > It looks like so many people bailed and jumped ship. Gail, Patti,
        > Bluth, etc., etc. Why would anybody do that if Rebazar and the LEM
        were
        > real deals?
        >
        > I think people knew a lot more than they wanted to tell the
        membership.
        > Even to this very day. And I also suspect so many people are
        afraid to
        > speak, or question the LEM. Most especially, Eckankar members.
        > Afterall, Harold Klemp testified that the LEM was an agent for, and
        > agent of God.
        >
        > Example One: (See: agent for God) - Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol
        1,
        > May 30, 1984 page 0008 - line 21.
        >
        >
        http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
        >
        > Example Two: (See: agent of God) Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1,
        May
        > 30, 1984 page 0021 - line 9.
        >
        >
        http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: al_radzik no_reply@yahoogroups.com
        > To: eckankartruth eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:16 pm
        > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
        >
        >  
        > Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that
        > Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming
        evidence
        > has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was
        acquitted.
        >
        > Al
        >
        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
        > >
        > > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to
        > eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from
        eckankar.
        > part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any
        copyright
        > issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a
        year
        > for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that
        time,
        > lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
        > >
        >
      • DAVIDP111@aol.com
        In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the Satsang classes. When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify what name he was
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 7, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
           
          Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early 1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
           
          Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged.  "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul, why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote their bible" he'd laugh.
           
          Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World, this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of him??  I don't know.
           
          I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
           
          Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do what she wanted to. 
           
          Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
           
          The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing, but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
          Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think so???
           
           
        • al_radzik
          This is great! ROFLMAO! ... In the 1960 s there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it s just one of many such paths. Nothing unique
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 7, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            This is great! ROFLMAO!

            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
            In the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it's just one of many such paths. Nothing unique about it at all except for the Spiderman principal. "Everyone thinks I'm nothing, but in secret I'm Spiderman!" The gimp little nothing passed over by everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant. A good feeling to have if you have nothing else going for you in your life. Like little Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
          • etznab@aol.com
            Dear Heavens! If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club. In
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Heavens!

              If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I
              think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club.

              In any case, this part in particular concerns me.

              "Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
              printer" for Eckanar in the early years. Paul would send her articles
              to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
              paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
              come from an actual newspaper. This was her light bulb moment to get
              out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died. I use to have a
              bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now."

              I've heard that story (probably from you, under another name) before,
              but the thing is I cannot verify it as true without taking your word
              for it. And at this point (far as Eckankar goes) I'm not wanting to
              take anybody's word for what constitutes the truth unless I can verify
              it for myself by substantial evidence.

              It's because I don't want to invite any more lies. Not from Eckankar.
              Not from members of Eckankar. Not from former members of Eckankar.

              Much of what you've said I (and probably a lot of other people) would
              be hard pressed to verify as true. If I were to mention some of your
              alleged facts and trivia at a round table, or at an official Eckankar
              event? I imagine most people would dismiss the source of that
              information like a turd with no further use and the information (true,
              or not) would get flushed out of sight; probably along with me!

              All I'm saying is that a lot of people exposed to the "Eckankar
              History" experience are hyper sensitive about accepting ANYTHING as
              true unless they can verify it for themselves. So at this point if you
              really want to convince (these kind of) people about anything then it
              has to be accompanied by substantial evidence that is credible and that
              people can easily verify for themselves. Another reason is that
              Eckankar apologists can mold information like clay and turn it into
              anything they want unless you can first prove it an absolute true and
              hardened fact.

              People hounded me for years about the topic of plagiarism and Rebazar
              Tarzs whenever I brought it up on a.r.e. That and a lot of other
              things. They told me what I was saying, reframed my information, spun
              it in another way, or changed the subject completely. Finally, I
              realized I had to make my point based on substance. So I gave them
              substance. I illustrated the quotes by Paul Twitchell, by Eckankar and
              (allegedly) by Rebazar Tarzs and other Eck Masters, but I also included
              the sources and writings of other people side by side (with links and
              page numbers so they could verify it for themselves.). With other
              issues I illustrated what the record(s) had to say as well. So it
              wasn't just my opinion that I was sharing anymore. It was information
              that anybody could see for themselves. Information that could be
              verified. It was something that could not be dumped.

              So this has been my experience. It makes a lot of difference if you can
              prove what you're saying is true. It makes a lot of difference if
              people can verify it easily. In that case ... well, you can rest your
              case.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
              To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:43 pm
              Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

               
              In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the
              Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify
              what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in
              Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar
              Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the
              same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing
              we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we
              were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because
              we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and
              the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
               
              Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early
              1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
               
              Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both
              Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story
              as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting
              enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World
              about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged. 
              "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth
              will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel
              conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including
              Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger
              would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul,
              why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote
              their bible" he'd laugh.
               
              Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted
              Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World,
              this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck
              Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I
              warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would
              not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was
              paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to
              reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it
              was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his
              reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of
              him??  I don't know.
               
              I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original
              manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not
              sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in
              Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of
              Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in
              Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie
              Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat
              Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last
              name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck
              seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them
              removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
               
              Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck
              Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom
              she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the
              time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the
              next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She
              fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do
              what she wanted to. 
               
              Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
              printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles
              to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
              paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
              come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get
              out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have
              a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
               
              The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's
              the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences
              there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new
              clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all
              the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In
              the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age
              stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at
              all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing,
              but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by
              everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to
              have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little
              Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
              Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big
              carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation
              THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think
              so???
               
               
            • Doug Street
              Well I don t really need to prove anything from my point of view..lol...I m so sorry you had this experiance and most ashamed of Pauls disgracing of my Papas
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Well I don't really need to prove anything from my point of view..lol...I'm so sorry you had this experiance and most ashamed of Pauls disgracing of my Papas name, I wish you had never delved in friend...and thats my message, to you and to who knows how many have been lied to looking for that inner peace.,  you know that true inner peace come's only from Christ because the spirit bears witness to you daily,
                 Now I am just Jacob Twitchells Grandson, packing the Good news,  and my message to X Ecks and current Ecks is this...Jesus loves you man, regardless of Paul and the Ecks and what crazy left overs are in your mind.
                 
                Be yea released from that demonic power of spiritual oppression in the Name of Jesus. Amen
                 
                I'm done here. Thank you mod for allowing me this time.
                 
                Best regards,
                Douglas A Street, devoted Grandson

                 

                To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                From: etznab@...
                Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:51:24 -0400
                Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                 

                Dear Heavens!

                If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I
                think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club.

                In any case, this part in particular concerns me.

                "Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
                printer" for Eckanar in the early years. Paul would send her articles
                to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
                paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
                come from an actual newspaper. This was her light bulb moment to get
                out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died. I use to have a
                bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now."

                I've heard that story (probably from you, under another name) before,
                but the thing is I cannot verify it as true without taking your word
                for it. And at this point (far as Eckankar goes) I'm not wanting to
                take anybody's word for what constitutes the truth unless I can verify
                it for myself by substantial evidence.

                It's because I don't want to invite any more lies. Not from Eckankar.
                Not from members of Eckankar. Not from former members of Eckankar.

                Much of what you've said I (and probably a lot of other people) would
                be hard pressed to verify as true. If I were to mention some of your
                alleged facts and trivia at a round table, or at an official Eckankar
                event? I imagine most people would dismiss the source of that
                information like a turd with no further use and the information (true,
                or not) would get flushed out of sight; probably along with me!

                All I'm saying is that a lot of people exposed to the "Eckankar
                History" experience are hyper sensitive about accepting ANYTHING as
                true unless they can verify it for themselves. So at this point if you
                really want to convince (these kind of) people about anything then it
                has to be accompanied by substantial evidence that is credible and that
                people can easily verify for themselves. Another reason is that
                Eckankar apologists can mold information like clay and turn it into
                anything they want unless you can first prove it an absolute true and
                hardened fact.

                People hounded me for years about the topic of plagiarism and Rebazar
                Tarzs whenever I brought it up on a.r.e. That and a lot of other
                things. They told me what I was saying, reframed my information, spun
                it in another way, or changed the subject completely. Finally, I
                realized I had to make my point based on substance. So I gave them
                substance. I illustrated the quotes by Paul Twitchell, by Eckankar and
                (allegedly) by Rebazar Tarzs and other Eck Masters, but I also included
                the sources and writings of other people side by side (with links and
                page numbers so they could verify it for themselves.). With other
                issues I illustrated what the record(s) had to say as well. So it
                wasn't just my opinion that I was sharing anymore. It was information
                that anybody could see for themselves. Information that could be
                verified. It was something that could not be dumped.

                So this has been my experience. It makes a lot of difference if you can
                prove what you're saying is true. It makes a lot of difference if
                people can verify it easily. In that case ... well, you can rest your
                case.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
                To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:43 pm
                Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                 
                In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the
                Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify
                what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in
                Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar
                Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the
                same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing
                we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we
                were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because
                we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and
                the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
                 
                Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early
                1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
                 
                Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both
                Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story
                as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting
                enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World
                about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged. 
                "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth
                will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel
                conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including
                Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger
                would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul,
                why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote
                their bible" he'd laugh.
                 
                Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted
                Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World,
                this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck
                Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I
                warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would
                not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was
                paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to
                reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it
                was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his
                reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of
                him??  I don't know.
                 
                I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original
                manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not
                sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in
                Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of
                Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in
                Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie
                Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat
                Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last
                name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck
                seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them
                removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
                 
                Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck
                Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom
                she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the
                time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the
                next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She
                fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do
                what she wanted to. 
                 
                Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
                printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles
                to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
                paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
                come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get
                out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have
                a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
                 
                The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's
                the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences
                there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new
                clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all
                the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In
                the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age
                stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at
                all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing,
                but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by
                everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to
                have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little
                Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
                Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big
                carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation
                THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think
                so???
                 
                 


              • Pete Chown
                Doug, ... If only life was that simple. Pete
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
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                  Doug,

                  > Be yea released from that demonic power of spiritual oppression in the
                  > Name of Jesus. Amen

                  If only life was that simple.

                  Pete
                • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                  Ok, I m not wanting to get sucked into this again. I did some major typing years ago and maybe it was the ARE group, not sure, but got such attacks by those
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 8, 2012
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                    Ok, I'm not wanting to get sucked into this again.  I did some major typing years ago and maybe it was the ARE group, not sure, but got such attacks by those that are professionally 'neutral.'  the Twitch stuff I had is scattered to those that were going to take it forward.  I went to Paducah years ago in hopes to find some old pics of Paul, never doubting his history, till I met his family and heard their side of In My Soul.
                     
                    I knew Paul, I loved Paul, I shared his last meal on this planet with him. I was one of the first to see him in death.  For what ever reason he spiced things up a bit, he was a salesman.  I've over the hurt and the pain, that was 30 years ago.  In the anguish Eckankar had over the truth coming out there were many bad feelings on both sides.  Many many Eckists where hurt, and hurt badly.  Seeking truth and get told lies. 
                     
                    I think Harold has answered this question passively, but answered it well.  Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology.  No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened.  Poof, gone.  That's the answer to the plagiarism question.  If the writings were non in question why not still publish them?  In My Soul is not printed either.  I guess the idea is to wait till all those that were with Paul and Darwin at the time to die off, then it's totally forgotten.
                     
                    I remember opening up one of Paul's books after I had been to Paducah and read the first page I opened to.  I forget the book but the answer was perfect.  it went something like this "if a master spoke of God and light and truth the chelas would yawn and sleep, but if he told fanciful tales of adventure and excitement mixed with truth the chelas would sit on the edge of their chairs listening to hear more." 
                     
                    At the time I contacted Phil Donahue and Tom Snyder, both had had Darwin on their shows, to do a live polygraph with Darwin and any of us that questioned.  Of course Darwin declined and the topic was dropped.  Darwin was livid.  Several of us had news that one of the heirs to the 7-up fortune was to leave Eckankar many millions of $$.  We contacted them with our info, and later when David Lane's book came out sent them a copy and Eck was written out of the estate, as I recall, the amount was over $30M they lost.  Also the history of the Helen Frye estate of $8M those of us that came forward and testified against Eckankar and Darwin personally, they lost badly.  Darwin and his henchmen were livid. 
                     
                    Helen wondered why several of her multiple $100,000. donations was deposited into a separate account and not Eckankar's, she hired investigators and ended up discovering the account was in Darwin's name.  That with the Twitchell family secrets uncovered Helen withdrew her will and Darwin/Eckankar lost out another $8Million.  Eckankar was suing the estate and Helen's family for the land/money, but lost badly.  Darwin in court could barely speak, druged and drunk out of his mind.
                     
                    This stuff went on and on.  It took me years to get over it.  Eckankar has a wonderful truth, if you can snag it through the crap.  My lesson through all of this is to call no one Master.  To listen, wonder what that person is after, get what lessons I can and be happy with that.  Also learned never to join a religous group again.
                     
                    Eckankar could have been a strong spiritual path but I guess Paul didn't have faith in it or in himself.  He had to lie about his history, the history of Eckankar and copy the writings of others without giving credit.   Right from the beginning it was failing it's mission.  He failed to live up the title he had given himself. If I run into an Eckists I say nothing of this.  If they are having a good experience and learning that's their path and not my place to upset them.  I don't know what goes on in Eckankar now, I guess I figured it kind of cleaned itself up.  Hopefully one of 3 masters will do the honest thing.
                     
                     
                  • al_radzik
                    I don t understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 25, 2012
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                      I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.

                      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html


                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:

                      Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                    • michael112658
                      Actually, last time I checked (which was a few weeks ago) Eckankar still carries several of Paul s books (including Stranger, Flute and Shariyat) and most of
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 26, 2012
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                        Actually, last time I checked (which was a few weeks ago) Eckankar still carries several of Paul's books (including Stranger, Flute and Shariyat) and most of his recordings.

                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.
                        >
                        > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                        >
                        > Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                        >
                      • Non
                        I knew an eckist several years ago when there was the debacle of eck defectors leaving the path once plagiarism from Path of the Master and Ford Johnson was
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 26, 2012
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                          I knew an eckist several years ago when there was the debacle of eck defectors leaving the "path" once plagiarism from Path of the Master and Ford Johnson was made obvious. However, a once true believer in Twit and then Gross, he then said that Gross was like Darth Vader from Star Wars. Nothing will ever sway this person from eckankar, ever, inspite of his many health problems and also mental health issues. Gross became just another part of the drama of eckankar's rationalized mythology. Once hooked, it seems to be impossible for some to get that fish hook out. Plus they have always been intellectually weak anyway. Doubt is so much despised, don't dare question the lame living eck master.

                          noneckster ; )

                          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.
                          >
                          > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                          >
                          > Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                          >
                        • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                          When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print. He is given credit for
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 27, 2012
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                            When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print.  He is given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many years.  It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's books are now gone.  Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations?  Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                             
                            My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof, he's gone.  Problem solved.
                             
                             
                            I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was a lot of money back then.  They were typed and specific for that chela that paid for the service.  The typed reading was secret, never to be shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative reactions.  One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so simular so they pulled them out and compared.  Each one was exactly like the other, word for word.  I remember they were about 20-25 pages.  Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where sold as being specific for that chela.  I wonder how many he duped doing that?  Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                          • etznab@aol.com
                            A number of books were discontinued and I can see your point. It s too general a statement though to suggest that Paul s stuff (including tapes) is no longer
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 27, 2012
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                              A number of books were discontinued and I can see your point. It's too
                              general a statement though to suggest that Paul's stuff (including
                              tapes) is no longer in print, etc.

                              http://www.eckbooks.org/catalog/Talks_by_Paul_Twitchell-26-1.html

                              Paul's tapes go all the way back to 1966.

                              http://www.eckbooks.org/catalog/Talks_by_Paul_Twitchell-26-1.html

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
                              To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Fri, Jul 27, 2012 8:03 pm
                              Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                               
                              When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the
                              books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print.  He is
                              given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many
                              years.  It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got
                              his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's
                              books are now gone.  Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations? 
                              Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                               
                              My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof,
                              he's gone.  Problem solved.
                               
                               
                              I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was
                              a lot of money back then.  They were typed and specific for that chela
                              that paid for the service.  The typed reading was secret, never to be
                              shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative
                              reactions.  One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were
                              talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so
                              simular so they pulled them out and compared.  Each one was exactly
                              like the other, word for word.  I remember they were about 20-25
                              pages.  Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where
                              sold as being specific for that chela.  I wonder how many he duped
                              doing that?  Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                            • michael112658
                              FYI, the following books by Paul Twitchell are still available through Eckankar: The Drums of Eck The Eck Vidya, Ancient Science of Prophecy Eckankar: The Key
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 28, 2012
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                                FYI, the following books by Paul Twitchell are still available through Eckankar:

                                The Drums of Eck
                                The Eck Vidya, Ancient Science of Prophecy
                                Eckankar: The Key to Secret Worlds
                                The Flute of God
                                Herbs, The Magic Healers
                                The Key to Eckankar
                                The Spiritual Notebook
                                Stranger by the River
                                Talons of Time
                                The Tiger's Fang

                                Most of his tapes are still around, too.

                                Peace out.

                                Michael

                                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print. He is given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many years. It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's books are now gone. Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations? Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                                >
                                > My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof, he's gone. Problem solved.
                                >
                                >
                                > I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was a lot of money back then. They were typed and specific for that chela that paid for the service. The typed reading was secret, never to be shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative reactions. One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so simular so they pulled them out and compared. Each one was exactly like the other, word for word. I remember they were about 20-25 pages. Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where sold as being specific for that chela. I wonder how many he duped doing that? Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                                >
                              • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                                I was going by the last printed eckankar catalog I had seen and had no tape of of Pauls listed (this was years ago). I guess it s nice that Twitchell is still
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 28, 2012
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                                  I was going by the last printed eckankar catalog I had seen and had no tape of of Pauls listed (this was years ago).  I guess it's nice that Twitchell is still remembered in eckankar at least via his talks.  I suppose no issues were risen by the talks, just his written works.
                                   
                                   
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