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Looking for December 1979 Memo

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  • etznab18
    Here is the part that is widely available today. I suspect this comes from David Lane. [....] Darwin Gross issued a worldwide memo on December 27, 1979 which
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 2 1:00 PM
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      Here is the part that is widely available today. I suspect this comes from David Lane.

      "[....] Darwin Gross issued a worldwide memo on December 27, 1979 which states that there was NO plagiarism in Paul Twitchell's THE FAR COUNTY. Saying instead that it was dictated to Paul by Rebazar. In addition, the memo states that 'the book claimed to be plagiarized by Paul was not copyrighted.' [....]"

      Here is one link where the comments appear.

      http://tinyurl.com/6wagzqz

      I think those comments also appear in Ford Johnson and Doug Marman's books.

      Here is an apparent (partial) quote about the actual memo.

      SPECIAL NOTICE TO ALL ECK CHELAS

      Sri Darwin Gross has asked that all ECKANKAR Centers be alerted for the Spiritual Counterfeits Projects of the Christian Coalition in Berkeley, California, is sending copies of their SCP-Journal on ECKANKAR to ECK Centers.
      From unauthorized use of The Mystic World, the SCP obtained the ECK Center addresses.
      Sri Darwin was not allowed to edit the SCP-Journal publication as he had been promised by the Spiritual Counterfeit group, and it does not tell the straight story. The SCP material, taken from a college thesis submitted by David Lane, was not completely researched and is untrue. [... .]

      http://tinyurl.com/6ws9ppy

      Here is some of Doug's commentary from the same post (don't forget to turn on your B.S. meter).

      As David says, B.B. goes on to say that there is no plagiarism in The Far Country and the book that was claimed to be plagiarized was not copyrighted.
      I will agree with David that both of these statements are not true, however I don't see why David concludes that these were intentional lies. This, as usual, is the problem with David's claims. They contain some element of truth, but he refuses to stick to only what he knows. He insists on assuming that he knows the intent and motivations of others. [...] No doubt, within days of sending out this memo, both Darwin and B.B. must have been told that the books were indeed copyrighted. And no doubt this explains why they never made such a statement again.
      This isn't proof or even an indication that Darwin and B.B. were trying to cover-up the fact that Johnson's books were copyrighted. What it shows is that Darwin and B.B. didn't take the time to verify this point before shooting off this memo. Perhaps it wasn't that important to them, but it shows their ignorance of the matter, not their intent to cover up the truth. [....]"

      ***

      The parts I would like to see are the parts about:

      (1) "there was NO plagiarism in Paul Twitchell's THE FAR COUNTY."

      (2) "it was dictated to Paul by Rebazar.

      (3) "the book claimed to be plagiarized by Paul was not copyrighted."

      IMO, the point about Bernadine Burlin writing the memo, and not Darwin, is irrelevant. I say this because the date was December 1979. This was long after Eckankar first learned about the issues of plagiarism. Eckankar and its lawyers had ample time to actually look at and READ The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson. And seeing this was a worldwide memo I doubt that B.B. had the single authority to write and send this memo without the knowledge and approval of others. Including Darwin Gross, the then leader of Eckankar.

      ***

      Feel free to chime in at any time DavidP111. From what I've read you seem to have a lot of information about Eckankar history gained from personal experience.
    • prometheus_973
      It s obvious that Marman is lying in order to preserve the cover-up and the fact that Twitchell did, in fact, plagiarize The Far Country from The Path of the
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 4 8:05 PM
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        It's obvious that Marman is lying in order
        to preserve the cover-up and the fact that
        Twitchell did, in fact, plagiarize The Far
        Country from The Path of the Masters and
        that Rebazar Tarzs is a fictitious character
        that Twit used in order to initiate himself
        and give validation to the false lineage of
        "Ancient" ECK Masters. Marman's excuse
        for lying? Well, it could be that he's in
        denial and that he's bought into the lie.
        Except, he's also expressed doubt about
        Rebazar existence and especially about Paul's
        "Mahanta" claim. So, why does he still apologize
        for Klemp and support the big lie. He does
        have a following and has written some books
        so it seems he's a product of Paul's imagination
        and joke. Plus, if it pays the bills and boosts
        the ego why not act the role? Of course most
        of us wouldn't continue to mislead people
        so I'm guessing Marman's rationalized his
        amoral behavior. Greed for Power and Money
        seems to be the driving force behind Marman's
        and Klemp's religious fraud.

        Prometheus

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here is the part that is widely available today. I suspect this comes from David Lane.
        >
        > "[....] Darwin Gross issued a worldwide memo on December 27, 1979 which states that there was NO plagiarism in Paul Twitchell's THE FAR COUNTY. Saying instead that it was dictated to Paul by Rebazar. In addition, the memo states that 'the book claimed to be plagiarized by Paul was not copyrighted.' [....]"
        >
        > Here is one link where the comments appear.
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/6wagzqz
        >
        > I think those comments also appear in Ford Johnson and Doug Marman's books.
        >
        > Here is an apparent (partial) quote about the actual memo.
        >
        > SPECIAL NOTICE TO ALL ECK CHELAS
        >
        > Sri Darwin Gross has asked that all ECKANKAR Centers be alerted for the Spiritual Counterfeits Projects of the Christian Coalition in Berkeley, California, is sending copies of their SCP-Journal on ECKANKAR to ECK Centers.
        > From unauthorized use of The Mystic World, the SCP obtained the ECK Center addresses.
        > Sri Darwin was not allowed to edit the SCP-Journal publication as he had been promised by the Spiritual Counterfeit group, and it does not tell the straight story. The SCP material, taken from a college thesis submitted by David Lane, was not completely researched and is untrue. [... .]
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/6ws9ppy
        >
        > Here is some of Doug's commentary from the same post (don't forget to turn on your B.S. meter).
        >
        > As David says, B.B. goes on to say that there is no plagiarism in The Far Country and the book that was claimed to be plagiarized was not copyrighted.
        > I will agree with David that both of these statements are not true, however I don't see why David concludes that these were intentional lies. This, as usual, is the problem with David's claims. They contain some element of truth, but he refuses to stick to only what he knows. He insists on assuming that he knows the intent and motivations of others. [...] No doubt, within days of sending out this memo, both Darwin and B.B. must have been told that the books were indeed copyrighted. And no doubt this explains why they never made such a statement again.
        > This isn't proof or even an indication that Darwin and B.B. were trying to cover-up the fact that Johnson's books were copyrighted. What it shows is that Darwin and B.B. didn't take the time to verify this point before shooting off this memo. Perhaps it wasn't that important to them, but it shows their ignorance of the matter, not their intent to cover up the truth. [....]"
        >
        > ***
        >
        > The parts I would like to see are the parts about:
        >
        > (1) "there was NO plagiarism in Paul Twitchell's THE FAR COUNTY."
        >
        > (2) "it was dictated to Paul by Rebazar.
        >
        > (3) "the book claimed to be plagiarized by Paul was not copyrighted."
        >
        > IMO, the point about Bernadine Burlin writing the memo, and not Darwin, is irrelevant. I say this because the date was December 1979. This was long after Eckankar first learned about the issues of plagiarism. Eckankar and its lawyers had ample time to actually look at and READ The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson. And seeing this was a worldwide memo I doubt that B.B. had the single authority to write and send this memo without the knowledge and approval of others. Including Darwin Gross, the then leader of Eckankar.
        >
        > ***
        >
        > Feel free to chime in at any time DavidP111. From what I've read you seem to have a lot of information about Eckankar history gained from personal experience.
        >
      • DAVIDP111@aol.com
        Gail was noted in about 1977 that she gave the copyrights to eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from eckankar. part of the agreement was
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 5 8:08 AM
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          Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to eckankar.  In reality she got her first $500,000 check from eckankar.  part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any copyright issues that might arise from Paul's writings.  She got $94,000 a year for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that time, lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
        • al_radzik
          Well, there you go. It s all about greed. It still amazes me that Eckankar hasn t fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming evidence has proven that it s
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 5 2:16 PM
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            Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming evidence has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was acquitted.

            Al

            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
            >
            > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from eckankar. part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any copyright issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a year for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that time, lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
            >
          • etznab@aol.com
            It might be more than just greed. 1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and Eckankar s lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting: With a wide
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 5 3:58 PM
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              It might be more than just greed.

              1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and Eckankar's
              lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting:

              "With a wide background of study you will find many similarities both
              approximate and exact in many religious statements, history and
              mythology. [....] How did you know Johnson didn't obtain his
              information from Twitchell or Rebazar Tarzs [sic] or some other common
              source? Don't be surprised that many people find the same truths and
              even in the same words, commandments, etc., whether they are
              concepts, stories of events, or levels of God Worlds or consciousness."

              [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
              Consciousness, p. 124] 

              What this tells me is the subject of plagiarism was starting to raise
              it's ugly head in 1977. It wasn't long afterward that Darwin announced
              he and Gail were getting a divorce. Subsequent to that, Darwin started
              looking for someone to take over the "spiritual" side of Eckankar,
              while Darwin managed the "business" side.

              Gail would have known about the plagiarisms, IMO, and so would Patti
              Simpson. Gail would also be able to answer questions about the identity
              of Rebazar Tarzs. If it (the truth) wasn't a pretty picture, I suspect
              that neither Gail, nor Patti, nor just about anybody wanted to talk
              about it publicly because it could implicate them in a 'cover-up';
              people might ask, Why are you just mentioning this now?

              It looks like so many people bailed and jumped ship. Gail, Patti,
              Bluth, etc., etc. Why would anybody do that if Rebazar and the LEM were
              real deals?

              I think people knew a lot more than they wanted to tell the membership.
              Even to this very day. And I also suspect so many people are afraid to
              speak, or question the LEM. Most especially, Eckankar members.
              Afterall, Harold Klemp testified that the LEM was an agent for, and
              agent of God.

              Example One: (See: agent for God) - Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1,
              May 30, 1984 page 0008 - line 21.

              http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9

              Example Two: (See: agent of God) Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1, May
              30, 1984 page 0021 - line 9.

              http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9

              -----Original Message-----
              From: al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:16 pm
              Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

               
              Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that
              Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming evidence
              has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was acquitted.

              Al

              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
              >
              > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to
              eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from eckankar.
              part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any copyright
              issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a year
              for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that time,
              lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
              >
            • etznab@aol.com
              Considering the idea of agents for and of God, the LEM (Living Eck Master) was / is apparently NOT called the one and only (as will be shown later in Paul
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 5 5:12 PM
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                Considering the idea of agents for and of God, the LEM (Living Eck
                Master) was / is apparently NOT called the one and only (as will be
                shown later in Paul Twitchell's writings).

                Some excerpts (and trying to correct for typos) from Julian Johnson use
                the word "Master" where Paul Twitchell (or should I say, Rebazar
                Tarzs?) used "Sugmad" (a word of "God").:

                [...] Now, if the Master's disciple wishes to escape the creation of
                karma of any sort, let him do whatever he does in the name of the
                Master, acting as his agent. So long as he does that, he will not
                create new karma, because he is acting solely as the agent of another,
                and always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent. But
                he must do this not merely in a ceremonial way but
                with his entire thought and soul in it. In deep earnest let him do all
                things, every detail of his life, in the name of his Master. This will,
                per necessity, oblige him to do only what he thinks his Master will
                approve of. When he approaches a task or a proposed act, he will
                remember that it is to be done in the name of the Master. He will fix
                his mind on the Master, and then in love and devotion he will
                do the work as a genuine service to the Master and in his name. He will
                remember that nothing is his own. All belongs to the Master because he
                has dedicated all to the Master— even his mind and his body, as well as
                his property. So he must use them all as if he were using the property
                of another, and use them exactly as he believes the owner would like to
                have him use them. [...] But the main point under consideration here is
                that if the disciple uses his mind and his body and his wealth all in
                the name of the Master, he is not creating any karma. Essentially it is
                the Master acting and not the disciple. The disciple is only the agent
                of the Master, So long as he is acting sincerely and wholeheartedly as
                the agent and disciple of the Master, it is really the Master who is
                acting. When our lives are sincerely dedicated to the path, we give up
                all to the Guru and we think only of doing his commands.

                Jesus said: If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.
                (John 8:31)

                And this is so regarding the disciples of any Master. Inayat Khan, a
                noted Sufi, says: Give us all you have, and we will give you all we
                possess.

                And in that saying there is much wisdom and a great promise. It means
                that if the disciple gives up all— mind, body, wealth and soul — to the
                Master, the Master will in return give the disciple such wealth as no
                king ever possessed. The Master will give him riches that surpass all
                else on earth, and in exchange for the surrender of himself to the
                Master, he will gain a freedom that makes him master of a limitless
                empire. It is not that the Master wants the disciple's mind or body or
                property. It is for the benefit of the disciple alone that the Master
                asks him to dedicate all to him. Such a gift on the part of the
                disciple generates more love in the disciple and enables the Master to
                do more for him, and at the same time it protects the disciple from
                making mistakes. [... .]

                Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright 1939

                http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt

                *********

                [...] "Now, if you wish to escape the creation of karma of any sort,
                then whatever you do, must be done in the name of the SUGMAD, while
                acting as his agent. So long as you do that, you will not create new
                karma, because you are acting solely as the agent of another, and
                always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.

                "You must do this not merely in a ceremonial way, but with your entire
                thought and Soul in it. In deep
                earnest, you must let yourself do all things, every detail of your
                life, in the name of the SUGMAD. This will, by necessity, oblige you to
                do only what you think the SUGMAD intends for you to do.

                "This is the psychology which is a part of the philosophy of ECKANKAR.
                Do every action in the
                name of the SUGMAD, and you have no responsibility toward any living
                creature in the lower worlds, under the plane of the SUGMAD.

                "When you approach a task, or a proposed act, you will remember that it
                is to be done in the name of the SUGMAD. You will fix your mind merely
                on the name of the SUGMAD, and in sincerity it will be done as a
                genuine service.

                "The SUGMAD does not. The catalytic agent is the ECK power which works
                between you and the
                SUGMAD. It carries out your action relieving you of the responsibility
                which would otherwise have settled upon your shoulders.

                "You must remember that nothing is your own. All belongs to the SUGMAD,
                because all creation belongs to the greatest deity, and you use your
                body, mind and Soul as the property of the SUGMAD. The main point I am
                making here is that if you use your mind and your body and possessions
                in the name of the SUGMAD, you are not creating any karma.

                "Essentially it is the SUGMAD acting and not you. You are merely the
                agent of the SUGMAD, while at the same time the SUGMAD is your agent.
                So long as you are acting sincerely and whole-heartedly as the agent of
                the SUGMAD, it is really the SUGMAD who is acting as your agent.

                "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that if you give all, you will get
                all. In this saying there is wisdom and a great promise. It means that
                if you give up all, mind, body, wealth and Soul to the SUGMAD, the
                SUGMAD must by ITS own law serve you in return.[... .]

                Reportedly, this was Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, by Paul
                Twitchell, Copyright 1971

                http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt

                *********

                Notice that Julian Johnson writes: Inayat Khan, a noted Sufi, says:
                Give us all you have, and we will give you all we possess.

                Notice that Rebazar Tarzs says: "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that
                if you give all, you will get all.

                *********

                Furthermore, In Paul's Twitchell's book there are other agents of the
                Sugmad. Including the Silent Ones and the Spiritual Travelers.

                But that's not all. Speaking about the Hindu Trinity, etc., Julian
                Johnson writes:

                [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents; they carry the
                creative impulses from the greater powers above. But they have been
                given these individual names as persons. It is well to remember that
                all creative currents may become personal, that is, take individual
                form and assume individual duties. Now these three have generally been
                accepted as the Hindu trinity of gods, most commonly known in their
                pantheon. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate position.
                They each perform a certain function in carrying on the work of the
                world, in producing human bodies, and in keeping those bodies going.
                They are agents of the supreme power in serving mankind. They are not
                gods to be worshipped. [... .]

                http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt

                Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs say:

                [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents. They carry the
                creative impulses from the greater powers above, but they have been
                given these individual names, as persons.

                "It is well to remember that all creative currents may become personal;
                that is, take individual form and assume individual duties, as Krishna,
                Christ, Buddha and others. Now these three have generally been accepted
                as the Hindu trinity of Gods, as commonly known in their literature and
                religion. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate position.
                These powers are the real servants of man. They perform a certain
                function in carrying on the work of the world, in producing human
                bodies, and in keeping these bodies going. They are the agents of the
                SUGMAD in serving mankind, but not gods to be worshipped by the human
                race. [... .]

                http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt

                *********

                It looks like Paul Twitchell plagiarized, paraphrased Julian Johnson
                and then changed his source to Rebazar Tarzs, an Eck Master. If this is
                true, it doesn't mean (IMHO) that Rebazar Tarzs is a real person
                belonging to a real Eckankar Eck Master lineage. Rather, it looks like
                Rebazar was used as a "literary device" to animate Paul Twitchell's
                writings and the writings he compiled from others. This is more than
                simply plagiarism and paraphrasing. This looks (to me) like the
                creation of fiction, pseudo man-made history and religion.

                Somebody show me where this subject is addressed in the Eckankar
                writings.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: etznab <etznab@...>
                To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 5:58 pm
                Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                 
                It might be more than just greed.

                1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and Eckankar's
                lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting:

                "With a wide background of study you will find many similarities both
                approximate and exact in many religious statements, history and
                mythology. [....] How did you know Johnson didn't obtain his
                information from Twitchell or Rebazar Tarzs [sic] or some other common
                source? Don't be surprised that many people find the same truths and
                even in the same words, commandments, etc., whether they are
                concepts, stories of events, or levels of God Worlds or consciousness."

                [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
                Consciousness, p. 124] 

                What this tells me is the subject of plagiarism was starting to raise
                it's ugly head in 1977. It wasn't long afterward that Darwin announced
                he and Gail were getting a divorce. Subsequent to that, Darwin started
                looking for someone to take over the "spiritual" side of Eckankar,
                while Darwin managed the "business" side.

                Gail would have known about the plagiarisms, IMO, and so would Patti
                Simpson. Gail would also be able to answer questions about the identity
                of Rebazar Tarzs. If it (the truth) wasn't a pretty picture, I suspect
                that neither Gail, nor Patti, nor just about anybody wanted to talk
                about it publicly because it could implicate them in a 'cover-up';
                people might ask, Why are you just mentioning this now?

                It looks like so many people bailed and jumped ship. Gail, Patti,
                Bluth, etc., etc. Why would anybody do that if Rebazar and the LEM were
                real deals?

                I think people knew a lot more than they wanted to tell the membership.
                Even to this very day. And I also suspect so many people are afraid to
                speak, or question the LEM. Most especially, Eckankar members.
                Afterall, Harold Klemp testified that the LEM was an agent for, and
                agent of God.

                Example One: (See: agent for God) - Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1,
                May 30, 1984 page 0008 - line 21.

                http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9

                Example Two: (See: agent of God) Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1, May
                30, 1984 page 0021 - line 9.

                http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9

                -----Original Message-----
                From: al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:16 pm
                Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                 
                Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that
                Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming evidence
                has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was acquitted.

                Al

                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
                >
                > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to
                eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from eckankar.
                part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any copyright
                issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a year
                for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that time,
                lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
                >
              • al_radzik
                You are a very thorough chronicler of Eckankar my friend. I m just curious as to how and why you ve come to be the latest and perhaps one of the last
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 6 9:08 PM
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                  You are a very thorough chronicler of Eckankar my friend. I'm just curious as to how and why you've come to be the latest and perhaps one of the last "detractors" on alt.religion.eckankar.
                  Most folks in this group have already been through a dramatic exchange with various Eckists on that newsgroup since the mid 90's. There have been websites dedicated to the naysayers. Employers and families of detractors have been notified of our "disrespectful" attitudes towards Eckankar and many threats have been made.
                  I don't know if you were around then under a pseudonym or were just a "whippersnapper" during that heyday but there were certainly some interesting folks in the hallowed cyberhalls of a.r.e.:

                  Eckists included:
                  Rich Smith - Hawaii's very own cybersailor who went through an enormous effort to get my personal phone number and publish it so others could call and harass me. He actually called my mother up and tricked her into believing he was an old friend of mine.
                  Joe Homsey a.k.a. (Joey Galuuk)
                  Cheryl Gruendemann
                  Michael Wallace and his girlfriend Bee: Two Australian nutjobs.Michael now runs a website called numberharmonics.com and Bee was some punk rocking little gnat who wrote and published songs about me on the Internet.
                  Rita Crorkin (a.k.a Windy)
                  Jessica Weiss - Eck Nazi-Feminist
                  Richard Pickett - Administrator at Duke University with his buddy Joe Polonis
                  Diamond Star - Schizoid woman from Washington State who claimed the FBI was putting cameras in her microwave
                  and the list goes on......


                  Sharon was the chief detractor. She made life for them a living hell because she was a long time Eckist and climbed the fence one day never to look back again.

                  David Lane: nuff said

                  arelurker: A very articulate poster who kept his identity safe from everyone. They tried so hard to find out who he was but he was very smart and always stayed one step ahead of them. He really knew how to rile the Eckists up!!!

                  I could go on and on but we all got bored with it and just left one sunny afternoon. The place has never been the same.

                  For some reason I thought you were an Eckie at one time, Etznab.




                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Considering the idea of agents for and of God, the LEM (Living Eck
                  > Master) was / is apparently NOT called the one and only (as will be
                  > shown later in Paul Twitchell's writings).
                  >
                  > Some excerpts (and trying to correct for typos) from Julian Johnson use
                  > the word "Master" where Paul Twitchell (or should I say, Rebazar
                  > Tarzs?) used "Sugmad" (a word of "God").:
                  >
                  > [...] Now, if the Master's disciple wishes to escape the creation of
                  > karma of any sort, let him do whatever he does in the name of the
                  > Master, acting as his agent. So long as he does that, he will not
                  > create new karma, because he is acting solely as the agent of another,
                  > and always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent. But
                  > he must do this not merely in a ceremonial way but
                  > with his entire thought and soul in it. In deep earnest let him do all
                  > things, every detail of his life, in the name of his Master. This will,
                  > per necessity, oblige him to do only what he thinks his Master will
                  > approve of. When he approaches a task or a proposed act, he will
                  > remember that it is to be done in the name of the Master. He will fix
                  > his mind on the Master, and then in love and devotion he will
                  > do the work as a genuine service to the Master and in his name. He will
                  > remember that nothing is his own. All belongs to the Master because he
                  > has dedicated all to the Masterâ€" even his mind and his body, as well as
                  > his property. So he must use them all as if he were using the property
                  > of another, and use them exactly as he believes the owner would like to
                  > have him use them. [...] But the main point under consideration here is
                  > that if the disciple uses his mind and his body and his wealth all in
                  > the name of the Master, he is not creating any karma. Essentially it is
                  > the Master acting and not the disciple. The disciple is only the agent
                  > of the Master, So long as he is acting sincerely and wholeheartedly as
                  > the agent and disciple of the Master, it is really the Master who is
                  > acting. When our lives are sincerely dedicated to the path, we give up
                  > all to the Guru and we think only of doing his commands.
                  >
                  > Jesus said: If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.
                  > (John 8:31)
                  >
                  > And this is so regarding the disciples of any Master. Inayat Khan, a
                  > noted Sufi, says: Give us all you have, and we will give you all we
                  > possess.
                  >
                  > And in that saying there is much wisdom and a great promise. It means
                  > that if the disciple gives up allâ€" mind, body, wealth and soul â€" to the
                  > Master, the Master will in return give the disciple such wealth as no
                  > king ever possessed. The Master will give him riches that surpass all
                  > else on earth, and in exchange for the surrender of himself to the
                  > Master, he will gain a freedom that makes him master of a limitless
                  > empire. It is not that the Master wants the disciple's mind or body or
                  > property. It is for the benefit of the disciple alone that the Master
                  > asks him to dedicate all to him. Such a gift on the part of the
                  > disciple generates more love in the disciple and enables the Master to
                  > do more for him, and at the same time it protects the disciple from
                  > making mistakes. [... .]
                  >
                  > Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright 1939
                  >
                  > http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
                  >
                  > *********
                  >
                  > [...] "Now, if you wish to escape the creation of karma of any sort,
                  > then whatever you do, must be done in the name of the SUGMAD, while
                  > acting as his agent. So long as you do that, you will not create new
                  > karma, because you are acting solely as the agent of another, and
                  > always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
                  >
                  > "You must do this not merely in a ceremonial way, but with your entire
                  > thought and Soul in it. In deep
                  > earnest, you must let yourself do all things, every detail of your
                  > life, in the name of the SUGMAD. This will, by necessity, oblige you to
                  > do only what you think the SUGMAD intends for you to do.
                  >
                  > "This is the psychology which is a part of the philosophy of ECKANKAR.
                  > Do every action in the
                  > name of the SUGMAD, and you have no responsibility toward any living
                  > creature in the lower worlds, under the plane of the SUGMAD.
                  >
                  > "When you approach a task, or a proposed act, you will remember that it
                  > is to be done in the name of the SUGMAD. You will fix your mind merely
                  > on the name of the SUGMAD, and in sincerity it will be done as a
                  > genuine service.
                  >
                  > "The SUGMAD does not. The catalytic agent is the ECK power which works
                  > between you and the
                  > SUGMAD. It carries out your action relieving you of the responsibility
                  > which would otherwise have settled upon your shoulders.
                  >
                  > "You must remember that nothing is your own. All belongs to the SUGMAD,
                  > because all creation belongs to the greatest deity, and you use your
                  > body, mind and Soul as the property of the SUGMAD. The main point I am
                  > making here is that if you use your mind and your body and possessions
                  > in the name of the SUGMAD, you are not creating any karma.
                  >
                  > "Essentially it is the SUGMAD acting and not you. You are merely the
                  > agent of the SUGMAD, while at the same time the SUGMAD is your agent.
                  > So long as you are acting sincerely and whole-heartedly as the agent of
                  > the SUGMAD, it is really the SUGMAD who is acting as your agent.
                  >
                  > "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that if you give all, you will get
                  > all. In this saying there is wisdom and a great promise. It means that
                  > if you give up all, mind, body, wealth and Soul to the SUGMAD, the
                  > SUGMAD must by ITS own law serve you in return.[... .]
                  >
                  > Reportedly, this was Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, by Paul
                  > Twitchell, Copyright 1971
                  >
                  > http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
                  >
                  > *********
                  >
                  > Notice that Julian Johnson writes: Inayat Khan, a noted Sufi, says:
                  > Give us all you have, and we will give you all we possess.
                  >
                  > Notice that Rebazar Tarzs says: "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that
                  > if you give all, you will get all.
                  >
                  > *********
                  >
                  > Furthermore, In Paul's Twitchell's book there are other agents of the
                  > Sugmad. Including the Silent Ones and the Spiritual Travelers.
                  >
                  > But that's not all. Speaking about the Hindu Trinity, etc., Julian
                  > Johnson writes:
                  >
                  > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents; they carry the
                  > creative impulses from the greater powers above. But they have been
                  > given these individual names as persons. It is well to remember that
                  > all creative currents may become personal, that is, take individual
                  > form and assume individual duties. Now these three have generally been
                  > accepted as the Hindu trinity of gods, most commonly known in their
                  > pantheon. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate position.
                  > They each perform a certain function in carrying on the work of the
                  > world, in producing human bodies, and in keeping those bodies going.
                  > They are agents of the supreme power in serving mankind. They are not
                  > gods to be worshipped. [... .]
                  >
                  > http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
                  >
                  > Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs say:
                  >
                  > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents. They carry the
                  > creative impulses from the greater powers above, but they have been
                  > given these individual names, as persons.
                  >
                  > "It is well to remember that all creative currents may become personal;
                  > that is, take individual form and assume individual duties, as Krishna,
                  > Christ, Buddha and others. Now these three have generally been accepted
                  > as the Hindu trinity of Gods, as commonly known in their literature and
                  > religion. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate position.
                  > These powers are the real servants of man. They perform a certain
                  > function in carrying on the work of the world, in producing human
                  > bodies, and in keeping these bodies going. They are the agents of the
                  > SUGMAD in serving mankind, but not gods to be worshipped by the human
                  > race. [... .]
                  >
                  > http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
                  >
                  > *********
                  >
                  > It looks like Paul Twitchell plagiarized, paraphrased Julian Johnson
                  > and then changed his source to Rebazar Tarzs, an Eck Master. If this is
                  > true, it doesn't mean (IMHO) that Rebazar Tarzs is a real person
                  > belonging to a real Eckankar Eck Master lineage. Rather, it looks like
                  > Rebazar was used as a "literary device" to animate Paul Twitchell's
                  > writings and the writings he compiled from others. This is more than
                  > simply plagiarism and paraphrasing. This looks (to me) like the
                  > creation of fiction, pseudo man-made history and religion.
                  >
                  > Somebody show me where this subject is addressed in the Eckankar
                  > writings.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: etznab <etznab@...>
                  > To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 5:58 pm
                  > Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
                  >
                  >  
                  > It might be more than just greed.
                  >
                  > 1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and Eckankar's
                  > lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting:
                  >
                  > "With a wide background of study you will find many similarities both
                  > approximate and exact in many religious statements, history and
                  > mythology. [....] How did you know Johnson didn't obtain his
                  > information from Twitchell or Rebazar Tarzs [sic] or some other common
                  > source? Don't be surprised that many people find the same truths and
                  > even in the same words, commandments, etc., whether they are
                  > concepts, stories of events, or levels of God Worlds or consciousness."
                  >
                  > [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
                  > Consciousness, p. 124] 
                  >
                  > What this tells me is the subject of plagiarism was starting to raise
                  > it's ugly head in 1977. It wasn't long afterward that Darwin announced
                  > he and Gail were getting a divorce. Subsequent to that, Darwin started
                  > looking for someone to take over the "spiritual" side of Eckankar,
                  > while Darwin managed the "business" side.
                  >
                  > Gail would have known about the plagiarisms, IMO, and so would Patti
                  > Simpson. Gail would also be able to answer questions about the identity
                  > of Rebazar Tarzs. If it (the truth) wasn't a pretty picture, I suspect
                  > that neither Gail, nor Patti, nor just about anybody wanted to talk
                  > about it publicly because it could implicate them in a 'cover-up';
                  > people might ask, Why are you just mentioning this now?
                  >
                  > It looks like so many people bailed and jumped ship. Gail, Patti,
                  > Bluth, etc., etc. Why would anybody do that if Rebazar and the LEM were
                  > real deals?
                  >
                  > I think people knew a lot more than they wanted to tell the membership.
                  > Even to this very day. And I also suspect so many people are afraid to
                  > speak, or question the LEM. Most especially, Eckankar members.
                  > Afterall, Harold Klemp testified that the LEM was an agent for, and
                  > agent of God.
                  >
                  > Example One: (See: agent for God) - Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1,
                  > May 30, 1984 page 0008 - line 21.
                  >
                  > http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
                  >
                  > Example Two: (See: agent of God) Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1, May
                  > 30, 1984 page 0021 - line 9.
                  >
                  > http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: al_radzik no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                  > To: eckankartruth eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:16 pm
                  > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
                  >
                  >  
                  > Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that
                  > Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming evidence
                  > has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was acquitted.
                  >
                  > Al
                  >
                  > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to
                  > eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from eckankar.
                  > part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any copyright
                  > issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a year
                  > for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that time,
                  > lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
                  > >
                  >
                • etznab@aol.com
                  I wasn t around a.r.e. in the 1990s. Started posting on Truthseeker BB around 2005, I think, and then moved over to posting on mostly a.r.e. after Ford s BB
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 6 10:17 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I wasn't around a.r.e. in the 1990s. Started posting on Truthseeker BB
                    around 2005, I think, and then moved over to posting on mostly a.r.e.
                    after Ford's BB ended around 2007. I've had to learn about the early
                    days in retrospect.

                    If Eckankar ever dumps the fiction and replaces it with fact, I will be
                    there to applaud. Even if I'm the only one who stayed around to see it
                    happen. In the mean time, while waiting, I want to learn as much about
                    the truth as I can. So when people ask me questions about Eckankar and
                    the history I will not have to serve them up another pat answer, or
                    myth.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                    To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Fri, Jul 6, 2012 11:09 pm
                    Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                     
                    You are a very thorough chronicler of Eckankar my friend. I'm just
                    curious as to how and why you've come to be the latest and perhaps one
                    of the last "detractors" on alt.religion.eckankar.
                    Most folks in this group have already been through a dramatic exchange
                    with various Eckists on that newsgroup since the mid 90's. There have
                    been websites dedicated to the naysayers. Employers and families of
                    detractors have been notified of our "disrespectful" attitudes towards
                    Eckankar and many threats have been made.
                    I don't know if you were around then under a pseudonym or were just a
                    "whippersnapper" during that heyday but there were certainly some
                    interesting folks in the hallowed cyberhalls of a.r.e.:

                    Eckists included:
                    Rich Smith - Hawaii's very own cybersailor who went through an enormous
                    effort to get my personal phone number and publish it so others could
                    call and harass me. He actually called my mother up and tricked her
                    into believing he was an old friend of mine.
                    Joe Homsey a.k.a. (Joey Galuuk)
                    Cheryl Gruendemann
                    Michael Wallace and his girlfriend Bee: Two Australian nutjobs.Michael
                    now runs a website called numberharmonics.com and Bee was some punk
                    rocking little gnat who wrote and published songs about me on the
                    Internet.
                    Rita Crorkin (a.k.a Windy)
                    Jessica Weiss - Eck Nazi-Feminist
                    Richard Pickett - Administrator at Duke University with his buddy Joe
                    Polonis
                    Diamond Star - Schizoid woman from Washington State who claimed the FBI
                    was putting cameras in her microwave
                    and the list goes on......

                    Sharon was the chief detractor. She made life for them a living hell
                    because she was a long time Eckist and climbed the fence one day never
                    to look back again.

                    David Lane: nuff said

                    arelurker: A very articulate poster who kept his identity safe from
                    everyone. They tried so hard to find out who he was but he was very
                    smart and always stayed one step ahead of them. He really knew how to
                    rile the Eckists up!!!

                    I could go on and on but we all got bored with it and just left one
                    sunny afternoon. The place has never been the same.

                    For some reason I thought you were an Eckie at one time, Etznab.

                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Considering the idea of agents for and of God, the LEM (Living Eck
                    > Master) was / is apparently NOT called the one and only (as will
                    be
                    > shown later in Paul Twitchell's writings).
                    >
                    > Some excerpts (and trying to correct for typos) from Julian
                    Johnson use
                    > the word "Master" where Paul Twitchell (or should I say, Rebazar
                    > Tarzs?) used "Sugmad" (a word of "God").:
                    >
                    > [...] Now, if the Master's disciple wishes to escape the creation
                    of
                    > karma of any sort, let him do whatever he does in the name of the
                    > Master, acting as his agent. So long as he does that, he will not
                    > create new karma, because he is acting solely as the agent of
                    another,
                    > and always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
                    But
                    > he must do this not merely in a ceremonial way but
                    > with his entire thought and soul in it. In deep earnest let him do
                    all
                    > things, every detail of his life, in the name of his Master. This
                    will,
                    > per necessity, oblige him to do only what he thinks his Master
                    will
                    > approve of. When he approaches a task or a proposed act, he will
                    > remember that it is to be done in the name of the Master. He will
                    fix
                    > his mind on the Master, and then in love and devotion he will
                    > do the work as a genuine service to the Master and in his name. He
                    will
                    > remember that nothing is his own. All belongs to the Master
                    because he
                    > has dedicated all to the Masterâ€" even his mind and his body, as
                    well as
                    > his property. So he must use them all as if he were using the
                    property
                    > of another, and use them exactly as he believes the owner would
                    like to
                    > have him use them. [...] But the main point under consideration
                    here is
                    > that if the disciple uses his mind and his body and his wealth all
                    in
                    > the name of the Master, he is not creating any karma. Essentially
                    it is
                    > the Master acting and not the disciple. The disciple is only the
                    agent
                    > of the Master, So long as he is acting sincerely and
                    wholeheartedly as
                    > the agent and disciple of the Master, it is really the Master who
                    is
                    > acting. When our lives are sincerely dedicated to the path, we
                    give up
                    > all to the Guru and we think only of doing his commands.
                    >
                    > Jesus said: If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples
                    indeed.
                    > (John 8:31)
                    >
                    > And this is so regarding the disciples of any Master. Inayat Khan,
                    a
                    > noted Sufi, says: Give us all you have, and we will give you all
                    we
                    > possess.
                    >
                    > And in that saying there is much wisdom and a great promise. It
                    means
                    > that if the disciple gives up allâ€" mind, body, wealth and soul
                    â€" to the
                    > Master, the Master will in return give the disciple such wealth as
                    no
                    > king ever possessed. The Master will give him riches that surpass
                    all
                    > else on earth, and in exchange for the surrender of himself to the
                    > Master, he will gain a freedom that makes him master of a
                    limitless
                    > empire. It is not that the Master wants the disciple's mind or
                    body or
                    > property. It is for the benefit of the disciple alone that the
                    Master
                    > asks him to dedicate all to him. Such a gift on the part of the
                    > disciple generates more love in the disciple and enables the
                    Master to
                    > do more for him, and at the same time it protects the disciple
                    from
                    > making mistakes. [... .]
                    >
                    > Based on: The Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson, Copyright
                    1939
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
                    >
                    > *********
                    >
                    > [...] "Now, if you wish to escape the creation of karma of any
                    sort,
                    > then whatever you do, must be done in the name of the SUGMAD,
                    while
                    > acting as his agent. So long as you do that, you will not create
                    new
                    > karma, because you are acting solely as the agent of another, and
                    > always the principal is responsible for the acts of his agent.
                    >
                    > "You must do this not merely in a ceremonial way, but with your
                    entire
                    > thought and Soul in it. In deep
                    > earnest, you must let yourself do all things, every detail of your
                    > life, in the name of the SUGMAD. This will, by necessity, oblige
                    you to
                    > do only what you think the SUGMAD intends for you to do.
                    >
                    > "This is the psychology which is a part of the philosophy of
                    ECKANKAR.
                    > Do every action in the
                    > name of the SUGMAD, and you have no responsibility toward any
                    living
                    > creature in the lower worlds, under the plane of the SUGMAD.
                    >
                    > "When you approach a task, or a proposed act, you will remember
                    that it
                    > is to be done in the name of the SUGMAD. You will fix your mind
                    merely
                    > on the name of the SUGMAD, and in sincerity it will be done as a
                    > genuine service.
                    >
                    > "The SUGMAD does not. The catalytic agent is the ECK power which
                    works
                    > between you and the
                    > SUGMAD. It carries out your action relieving you of the
                    responsibility
                    > which would otherwise have settled upon your shoulders.
                    >
                    > "You must remember that nothing is your own. All belongs to the
                    SUGMAD,
                    > because all creation belongs to the greatest deity, and you use
                    your
                    > body, mind and Soul as the property of the SUGMAD. The main point
                    I am
                    > making here is that if you use your mind and your body and
                    possessions
                    > in the name of the SUGMAD, you are not creating any karma.
                    >
                    > "Essentially it is the SUGMAD acting and not you. You are merely
                    the
                    > agent of the SUGMAD, while at the same time the SUGMAD is your
                    agent.
                    > So long as you are acting sincerely and whole-heartedly as the
                    agent of
                    > the SUGMAD, it is really the SUGMAD who is acting as your agent.
                    >
                    > "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said that if you give all, you will
                    get
                    > all. In this saying there is wisdom and a great promise. It means
                    that
                    > if you give up all, mind, body, wealth and Soul to the SUGMAD, the
                    > SUGMAD must by ITS own law serve you in return.[... .]
                    >
                    > Reportedly, this was Rebazar Tarzs, in The Far Country, by Paul
                    > Twitchell, Copyright 1971
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
                    >
                    > *********
                    >
                    > Notice that Julian Johnson writes: Inayat Khan, a noted Sufi,
                    says:
                    > Give us all you have, and we will give you all we possess.
                    >
                    > Notice that Rebazar Tarzs says: "Gopal Das, noted ECK Master, said
                    that
                    > if you give all, you will get all.
                    >
                    > *********
                    >
                    > Furthermore, In Paul's Twitchell's book there are other agents of
                    the
                    > Sugmad. Including the Silent Ones and the Spiritual Travelers.
                    >
                    > But that's not all. Speaking about the Hindu Trinity, etc., Julian
                    > Johnson writes:
                    >
                    > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents; they carry
                    the
                    > creative impulses from the greater powers above. But they have
                    been
                    > given these individual names as persons. It is well to remember
                    that
                    > all creative currents may become personal, that is, take
                    individual
                    > form and assume individual duties. Now these three have generally
                    been
                    > accepted as the Hindu trinity of gods, most commonly known in
                    their
                    > pantheon. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate
                    position.
                    > They each perform a certain function in carrying on the work of
                    the
                    > world, in producing human bodies, and in keeping those bodies
                    going.
                    > They are agents of the supreme power in serving mankind. They are
                    not
                    > gods to be worshipped. [... .]
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt
                    >
                    > Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs say:
                    >
                    > [...] In fact, these three represent creative currents. They carry
                    the
                    > creative impulses from the greater powers above, but they have
                    been
                    > given these individual names, as persons.
                    >
                    > "It is well to remember that all creative currents may become
                    personal;
                    > that is, take individual form and assume individual duties, as
                    Krishna,
                    > Christ, Buddha and others. Now these three have generally been
                    accepted
                    > as the Hindu trinity of Gods, as commonly known in their
                    literature and
                    > religion. Millions worship them in spite of their subordinate
                    position.
                    > These powers are the real servants of man. They perform a certain
                    > function in carrying on the work of the world, in producing human
                    > bodies, and in keeping these bodies going. They are the agents of
                    the
                    > SUGMAD in serving mankind, but not gods to be worshipped by the
                    human
                    > race. [... .]
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.archive.org/stream/farcountry017342mbp/farcountry017342mbp_djvu.txt
                    >
                    > *********
                    >
                    > It looks like Paul Twitchell plagiarized, paraphrased Julian
                    Johnson
                    > and then changed his source to Rebazar Tarzs, an Eck Master. If
                    this is
                    > true, it doesn't mean (IMHO) that Rebazar Tarzs is a real person
                    > belonging to a real Eckankar Eck Master lineage. Rather, it looks
                    like
                    > Rebazar was used as a "literary device" to animate Paul
                    Twitchell's
                    > writings and the writings he compiled from others. This is more
                    than
                    > simply plagiarism and paraphrasing. This looks (to me) like the
                    > creation of fiction, pseudo man-made history and religion.
                    >
                    > Somebody show me where this subject is addressed in the Eckankar
                    > writings.
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: etznab <etznab@...>
                    > To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 5:58 pm
                    > Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
                    >
                    >  
                    > It might be more than just greed.
                    >
                    > 1977 was when someone wrote a term paper about Eckankar and
                    Eckankar's
                    > lawyer responded to David Lane. Quoting:
                    >
                    > "With a wide background of study you will find many similarities
                    both
                    > approximate and exact in many religious statements, history and
                    > mythology. [....] How did you know Johnson didn't obtain his
                    > information from Twitchell or Rebazar Tarzs [sic] or some other
                    common
                    > source? Don't be surprised that many people find the same truths
                    and
                    > even in the same words, commandments, etc., whether they are
                    > concepts, stories of events, or levels of God Worlds or
                    consciousness."
                    >
                    > [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to
                    Higher
                    > Consciousness, p. 124] 
                    >
                    > What this tells me is the subject of plagiarism was starting to
                    raise
                    > it's ugly head in 1977. It wasn't long afterward that Darwin
                    announced
                    > he and Gail were getting a divorce. Subsequent to that, Darwin
                    started
                    > looking for someone to take over the "spiritual" side of Eckankar,
                    > while Darwin managed the "business" side.
                    >
                    > Gail would have known about the plagiarisms, IMO, and so would
                    Patti
                    > Simpson. Gail would also be able to answer questions about the
                    identity
                    > of Rebazar Tarzs. If it (the truth) wasn't a pretty picture, I
                    suspect
                    > that neither Gail, nor Patti, nor just about anybody wanted to talk
                    > about it publicly because it could implicate them in a 'cover-up';
                    > people might ask, Why are you just mentioning this now?
                    >
                    > It looks like so many people bailed and jumped ship. Gail, Patti,
                    > Bluth, etc., etc. Why would anybody do that if Rebazar and the LEM
                    were
                    > real deals?
                    >
                    > I think people knew a lot more than they wanted to tell the
                    membership.
                    > Even to this very day. And I also suspect so many people are
                    afraid to
                    > speak, or question the LEM. Most especially, Eckankar members.
                    > Afterall, Harold Klemp testified that the LEM was an agent for, and
                    > agent of God.
                    >
                    > Example One: (See: agent for God) - Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol
                    1,
                    > May 30, 1984 page 0008 - line 21.
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
                    >
                    > Example Two: (See: agent of God) Deposition of Harold Klemp Vol 1,
                    May
                    > 30, 1984 page 0021 - line 9.
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/scanindexsubtitleAcss.aspx?SubtitleNo=9
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: al_radzik no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                    > To: eckankartruth eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 4:16 pm
                    > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo
                    >
                    >  
                    > Well, there you go. It's all about greed. It still amazes me that
                    > Eckankar hasn't fallen flat on its face after the overwhelming
                    evidence
                    > has proven that it's a big lie. Then again, Casey Anthony was
                    acquitted.
                    >
                    > Al
                    >
                    > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Gail was noted in about 1977 that she 'gave' the copyrights to
                    > eckankar. In reality she got her first $500,000 check from
                    eckankar.
                    > part of the agreement was they protected her legally for any
                    copyright
                    > issues that might arise from Paul's writings. She got $94,000 a
                    year
                    > for life payments starting then, which was a huge amount at that
                    time,
                    > lifetime health insurance and a gas expense account for life.
                    > >
                    >
                  • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                    In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the Satsang classes. When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify what name he was
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 7 7:42 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
                       
                      Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early 1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
                       
                      Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged.  "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul, why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote their bible" he'd laugh.
                       
                      Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World, this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of him??  I don't know.
                       
                      I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
                       
                      Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do what she wanted to. 
                       
                      Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
                       
                      The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing, but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
                      Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think so???
                       
                       
                    • al_radzik
                      This is great! ROFLMAO! ... In the 1960 s there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it s just one of many such paths. Nothing unique
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 7 8:27 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        This is great! ROFLMAO!

                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
                        In the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age stuff, it's just one of many such paths. Nothing unique about it at all except for the Spiderman principal. "Everyone thinks I'm nothing, but in secret I'm Spiderman!" The gimp little nothing passed over by everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant. A good feeling to have if you have nothing else going for you in your life. Like little Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
                      • etznab@aol.com
                        Dear Heavens! If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club. In
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 8 6:51 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear Heavens!

                          If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I
                          think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club.

                          In any case, this part in particular concerns me.

                          "Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
                          printer" for Eckanar in the early years. Paul would send her articles
                          to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
                          paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
                          come from an actual newspaper. This was her light bulb moment to get
                          out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died. I use to have a
                          bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now."

                          I've heard that story (probably from you, under another name) before,
                          but the thing is I cannot verify it as true without taking your word
                          for it. And at this point (far as Eckankar goes) I'm not wanting to
                          take anybody's word for what constitutes the truth unless I can verify
                          it for myself by substantial evidence.

                          It's because I don't want to invite any more lies. Not from Eckankar.
                          Not from members of Eckankar. Not from former members of Eckankar.

                          Much of what you've said I (and probably a lot of other people) would
                          be hard pressed to verify as true. If I were to mention some of your
                          alleged facts and trivia at a round table, or at an official Eckankar
                          event? I imagine most people would dismiss the source of that
                          information like a turd with no further use and the information (true,
                          or not) would get flushed out of sight; probably along with me!

                          All I'm saying is that a lot of people exposed to the "Eckankar
                          History" experience are hyper sensitive about accepting ANYTHING as
                          true unless they can verify it for themselves. So at this point if you
                          really want to convince (these kind of) people about anything then it
                          has to be accompanied by substantial evidence that is credible and that
                          people can easily verify for themselves. Another reason is that
                          Eckankar apologists can mold information like clay and turn it into
                          anything they want unless you can first prove it an absolute true and
                          hardened fact.

                          People hounded me for years about the topic of plagiarism and Rebazar
                          Tarzs whenever I brought it up on a.r.e. That and a lot of other
                          things. They told me what I was saying, reframed my information, spun
                          it in another way, or changed the subject completely. Finally, I
                          realized I had to make my point based on substance. So I gave them
                          substance. I illustrated the quotes by Paul Twitchell, by Eckankar and
                          (allegedly) by Rebazar Tarzs and other Eck Masters, but I also included
                          the sources and writings of other people side by side (with links and
                          page numbers so they could verify it for themselves.). With other
                          issues I illustrated what the record(s) had to say as well. So it
                          wasn't just my opinion that I was sharing anymore. It was information
                          that anybody could see for themselves. Information that could be
                          verified. It was something that could not be dumped.

                          So this has been my experience. It makes a lot of difference if you can
                          prove what you're saying is true. It makes a lot of difference if
                          people can verify it easily. In that case ... well, you can rest your
                          case.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
                          To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:43 pm
                          Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                           
                          In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the
                          Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify
                          what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in
                          Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar
                          Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the
                          same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing
                          we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we
                          were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because
                          we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and
                          the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
                           
                          Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early
                          1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
                           
                          Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both
                          Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story
                          as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting
                          enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World
                          about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged. 
                          "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth
                          will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel
                          conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including
                          Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger
                          would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul,
                          why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote
                          their bible" he'd laugh.
                           
                          Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted
                          Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World,
                          this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck
                          Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I
                          warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would
                          not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was
                          paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to
                          reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it
                          was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his
                          reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of
                          him??  I don't know.
                           
                          I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original
                          manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not
                          sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in
                          Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of
                          Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in
                          Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie
                          Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat
                          Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last
                          name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck
                          seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them
                          removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
                           
                          Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck
                          Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom
                          she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the
                          time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the
                          next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She
                          fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do
                          what she wanted to. 
                           
                          Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
                          printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles
                          to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
                          paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
                          come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get
                          out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have
                          a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
                           
                          The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's
                          the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences
                          there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new
                          clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all
                          the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In
                          the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age
                          stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at
                          all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing,
                          but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by
                          everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to
                          have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little
                          Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
                          Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big
                          carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation
                          THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think
                          so???
                           
                           
                        • Doug Street
                          Well I don t really need to prove anything from my point of view..lol...I m so sorry you had this experiance and most ashamed of Pauls disgracing of my Papas
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 8 7:18 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Well I don't really need to prove anything from my point of view..lol...I'm so sorry you had this experiance and most ashamed of Pauls disgracing of my Papas name, I wish you had never delved in friend...and thats my message, to you and to who knows how many have been lied to looking for that inner peace.,  you know that true inner peace come's only from Christ because the spirit bears witness to you daily,
                             Now I am just Jacob Twitchells Grandson, packing the Good news,  and my message to X Ecks and current Ecks is this...Jesus loves you man, regardless of Paul and the Ecks and what crazy left overs are in your mind.
                             
                            Be yea released from that demonic power of spiritual oppression in the Name of Jesus. Amen
                             
                            I'm done here. Thank you mod for allowing me this time.
                             
                            Best regards,
                            Douglas A Street, devoted Grandson

                             

                            To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                            From: etznab@...
                            Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:51:24 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                             

                            Dear Heavens!

                            If only what you say could be verified by the average person. Then I
                            think your words could carry more weight. Like a giant brick, or a club.

                            In any case, this part in particular concerns me.

                            "Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
                            printer" for Eckanar in the early years. Paul would send her articles
                            to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
                            paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
                            come from an actual newspaper. This was her light bulb moment to get
                            out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died. I use to have a
                            bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now."

                            I've heard that story (probably from you, under another name) before,
                            but the thing is I cannot verify it as true without taking your word
                            for it. And at this point (far as Eckankar goes) I'm not wanting to
                            take anybody's word for what constitutes the truth unless I can verify
                            it for myself by substantial evidence.

                            It's because I don't want to invite any more lies. Not from Eckankar.
                            Not from members of Eckankar. Not from former members of Eckankar.

                            Much of what you've said I (and probably a lot of other people) would
                            be hard pressed to verify as true. If I were to mention some of your
                            alleged facts and trivia at a round table, or at an official Eckankar
                            event? I imagine most people would dismiss the source of that
                            information like a turd with no further use and the information (true,
                            or not) would get flushed out of sight; probably along with me!

                            All I'm saying is that a lot of people exposed to the "Eckankar
                            History" experience are hyper sensitive about accepting ANYTHING as
                            true unless they can verify it for themselves. So at this point if you
                            really want to convince (these kind of) people about anything then it
                            has to be accompanied by substantial evidence that is credible and that
                            people can easily verify for themselves. Another reason is that
                            Eckankar apologists can mold information like clay and turn it into
                            anything they want unless you can first prove it an absolute true and
                            hardened fact.

                            People hounded me for years about the topic of plagiarism and Rebazar
                            Tarzs whenever I brought it up on a.r.e. That and a lot of other
                            things. They told me what I was saying, reframed my information, spun
                            it in another way, or changed the subject completely. Finally, I
                            realized I had to make my point based on substance. So I gave them
                            substance. I illustrated the quotes by Paul Twitchell, by Eckankar and
                            (allegedly) by Rebazar Tarzs and other Eck Masters, but I also included
                            the sources and writings of other people side by side (with links and
                            page numbers so they could verify it for themselves.). With other
                            issues I illustrated what the record(s) had to say as well. So it
                            wasn't just my opinion that I was sharing anymore. It was information
                            that anybody could see for themselves. Information that could be
                            verified. It was something that could not be dumped.

                            So this has been my experience. It makes a lot of difference if you can
                            prove what you're saying is true. It makes a lot of difference if
                            people can verify it easily. In that case ... well, you can rest your
                            case.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
                            To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sat, Jul 7, 2012 9:43 pm
                            Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                             
                            In my early years of Eckankar Path of the Masters was present at the
                            Satsang classes.  When the name Rebazar Tarzs came up we had to clarify
                            what name he was going under depending on how long everyone had been in
                            Eckankar.  A line would be read, "Rebazar Tarzs/Kirpal Singh/Sudar
                            Singh said by the river:"  This was about 1968.  The quote stayed the
                            same but the name changed.  When questioning why the name kept changing
                            we were hushed by stating we should not question the Master.  If we
                            were spiritual we'd KNOW the answer.  If we have questions it's because
                            we are not spiritually unfolded.  So we just shut up like the King and
                            the invisible clothes not to look un-spiritual.
                             
                            Our local high initiate had been with Paul and Camille in the early
                            1950s with Kirpal Singh's group. 
                             
                            Brad Steiger wrote Eckankar the Key to secret Worlds and both
                            Shariyats.   When Darwin had turned on Brad for not writing his story
                            as he wrote In My Soul, (per Brad, because Darwin wasn't interesting
                            enough for a book), Darwin made some unkind remarks in Mystic World
                            about Steiger.  I shared these comments with Steiger who was outraged. 
                            "I'm the best friend Eckankar has, if I open my mouth all the truth
                            will come out it's fraud."  Brand had about 100 hours on reel to reel
                            conversations with Paul when they were working on In My Soul, including
                            Paul creating and recreating his history and spiritual mantel.  Stiger
                            would stop the tape and tell me, "at the time I kept wondering, Paul,
                            why are you saying this on tape???"  "Im not even an Eckist and I wrote
                            their bible" he'd laugh.
                             
                            Brad used Paul's notes to write the books.  Brad contacted
                            Eckankar/Darwin for a retraction on the attack on him in Mystic World,
                            this started a bit of a war.  I got a call from a friend in the Eck
                            Office to "get out of town, they're coming to get you and Brad."  I
                            warned Brad and I got out of town.   From that weekend on Brad would
                            not talk with me, what happened to the documents he had to prove he was
                            paid for writing the Shariyats and Key to Secret Worlds and the reel to
                            reel tapes, I don't know.  Brad was in a position, too, that he knew it
                            was all lies when he wrote In My Soul and there would go his
                            reputation, too.  Did he get paid off, did he get the crap beat out of
                            him??  I don't know.
                             
                            I heard they came after Ed Pecean as he had one of the original
                            manuscripts for Tiger's Fang with Kirpal Singh instead of Rebazar.  Not
                            sure what happened to that copy.  Eckankar hit up Paul's family in
                            Kentucky and Indiana for all manuscripts and writings they had of
                            Paul's  Paul stored several boxes at his sister in law's house in
                            Paducah shortly before he moved from San Diego to Las Vegas.  Mattie
                            Twitchell, his sister in law, gave up the boxes about 1977 to Pat
                            Henderson's sister and Gail, I forget Pat's sister's name now.  Last
                            name was Johnson.  Mattie and family visited Vegas once when the Eck
                            seminar was on, they asked to see Paul but he ignored them and had them
                            removed from the meeting hall.  He never spoke to his family after that.
                             
                            Lewis Blooth wrote the Herb book, was promised to be the next Eck
                            Master, he was Paul's physician.  Gail Bypassed Blooth for Darwin, whom
                            she was having an affair with. Chet Tuttle the president of Eck at the
                            time was furious as Paul's writen direction was for Blooth to be the
                            next Master, but Gail owned Eckankar, then, a publishing company.  She
                            fired Chet  and had him removed from the Vegas Office. She could do
                            what she wanted to. 
                             
                            Mary Hald in Middletown Ohio owned a print shop and was the 'official
                            printer" for Eckanar in the early years.  Paul would send her articles
                            to type set to look like newspaper clippings, to print on news print
                            paper with other news on the back side to look like the clipping had
                            come from an actual newspaper.  This was her light bulb moment to get
                            out of Eckankar, which she did shortly after Paul died.  I use to have
                            a bunch of those sheets, no idea where they are now.
                             
                            The hypnotic hold on Eckists is still the "personal experience'  That's
                            the proof, but if people really did have all these inner experiences
                            there would be millions of Eckists now.  Again, like the Emperor's new
                            clothes, they trod along waiting, hoping for a glimpse of light, all
                            the while sending $$$ for lessons that one can get almost anywhere.  In
                            the 1960's there was nothing like Eckankar, now with all the new age
                            stuff, it's just one of many such paths.  Nothing unique about it at
                            all except for the Spiderman principal.  "Everyone thinks I'm nothing,
                            but in secret I'm Spiderman!"  The gimp little nothing passed over by
                            everyone, as an Eckist, is an inner Spiritual Giant.  A good feeling to
                            have if you have nothing else going for you in your life.  Like little
                            Peter Parker, the skinny geek, in reality has super powers.
                            Paul new about that and used to to sell his product.  He dangled a big
                            carrot with the initiations.  Maybe if one got just one more initiation
                            THEN they'll have these amazing experiences they've heard about.  Think
                            so???
                             
                             


                          • Pete Chown
                            Doug, ... If only life was that simple. Pete
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 8 7:48 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Doug,

                              > Be yea released from that demonic power of spiritual oppression in the
                              > Name of Jesus. Amen

                              If only life was that simple.

                              Pete
                            • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                              Ok, I m not wanting to get sucked into this again. I did some major typing years ago and maybe it was the ARE group, not sure, but got such attacks by those
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 8 9:49 PM
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                                Ok, I'm not wanting to get sucked into this again.  I did some major typing years ago and maybe it was the ARE group, not sure, but got such attacks by those that are professionally 'neutral.'  the Twitch stuff I had is scattered to those that were going to take it forward.  I went to Paducah years ago in hopes to find some old pics of Paul, never doubting his history, till I met his family and heard their side of In My Soul.
                                 
                                I knew Paul, I loved Paul, I shared his last meal on this planet with him. I was one of the first to see him in death.  For what ever reason he spiced things up a bit, he was a salesman.  I've over the hurt and the pain, that was 30 years ago.  In the anguish Eckankar had over the truth coming out there were many bad feelings on both sides.  Many many Eckists where hurt, and hurt badly.  Seeking truth and get told lies. 
                                 
                                I think Harold has answered this question passively, but answered it well.  Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology.  No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened.  Poof, gone.  That's the answer to the plagiarism question.  If the writings were non in question why not still publish them?  In My Soul is not printed either.  I guess the idea is to wait till all those that were with Paul and Darwin at the time to die off, then it's totally forgotten.
                                 
                                I remember opening up one of Paul's books after I had been to Paducah and read the first page I opened to.  I forget the book but the answer was perfect.  it went something like this "if a master spoke of God and light and truth the chelas would yawn and sleep, but if he told fanciful tales of adventure and excitement mixed with truth the chelas would sit on the edge of their chairs listening to hear more." 
                                 
                                At the time I contacted Phil Donahue and Tom Snyder, both had had Darwin on their shows, to do a live polygraph with Darwin and any of us that questioned.  Of course Darwin declined and the topic was dropped.  Darwin was livid.  Several of us had news that one of the heirs to the 7-up fortune was to leave Eckankar many millions of $$.  We contacted them with our info, and later when David Lane's book came out sent them a copy and Eck was written out of the estate, as I recall, the amount was over $30M they lost.  Also the history of the Helen Frye estate of $8M those of us that came forward and testified against Eckankar and Darwin personally, they lost badly.  Darwin and his henchmen were livid. 
                                 
                                Helen wondered why several of her multiple $100,000. donations was deposited into a separate account and not Eckankar's, she hired investigators and ended up discovering the account was in Darwin's name.  That with the Twitchell family secrets uncovered Helen withdrew her will and Darwin/Eckankar lost out another $8Million.  Eckankar was suing the estate and Helen's family for the land/money, but lost badly.  Darwin in court could barely speak, druged and drunk out of his mind.
                                 
                                This stuff went on and on.  It took me years to get over it.  Eckankar has a wonderful truth, if you can snag it through the crap.  My lesson through all of this is to call no one Master.  To listen, wonder what that person is after, get what lessons I can and be happy with that.  Also learned never to join a religous group again.
                                 
                                Eckankar could have been a strong spiritual path but I guess Paul didn't have faith in it or in himself.  He had to lie about his history, the history of Eckankar and copy the writings of others without giving credit.   Right from the beginning it was failing it's mission.  He failed to live up the title he had given himself. If I run into an Eckists I say nothing of this.  If they are having a good experience and learning that's their path and not my place to upset them.  I don't know what goes on in Eckankar now, I guess I figured it kind of cleaned itself up.  Hopefully one of 3 masters will do the honest thing.
                                 
                                 
                              • al_radzik
                                I don t understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 25 8:56 PM
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                                  I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.

                                  http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html


                                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:

                                  Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                                • michael112658
                                  Actually, last time I checked (which was a few weeks ago) Eckankar still carries several of Paul s books (including Stranger, Flute and Shariyat) and most of
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jul 26 8:45 PM
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                                    Actually, last time I checked (which was a few weeks ago) Eckankar still carries several of Paul's books (including Stranger, Flute and Shariyat) and most of his recordings.

                                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.
                                    >
                                    > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                                    >
                                  • Non
                                    I knew an eckist several years ago when there was the debacle of eck defectors leaving the path once plagiarism from Path of the Master and Ford Johnson was
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jul 26 9:20 PM
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                                      I knew an eckist several years ago when there was the debacle of eck defectors leaving the "path" once plagiarism from Path of the Master and Ford Johnson was made obvious. However, a once true believer in Twit and then Gross, he then said that Gross was like Darth Vader from Star Wars. Nothing will ever sway this person from eckankar, ever, inspite of his many health problems and also mental health issues. Gross became just another part of the drama of eckankar's rationalized mythology. Once hooked, it seems to be impossible for some to get that fish hook out. Plus they have always been intellectually weak anyway. Doubt is so much despised, don't dare question the lame living eck master.

                                      noneckster ; )

                                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I don't understand this. Actually, Darwin is the only one who is non0existent in Eck theology but the official site still recognizes Twitchell as an Eck Master.
                                      >
                                      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/index.html
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@ wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Paul and Darwin are nonexistent in Eckankar theology. No books or tapes of Paul are presented, promoted or printed. Darwin seems to never have happened. Poof, gone.
                                      >
                                    • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                                      When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print. He is given credit for
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jul 27 6:02 PM
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                                        When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print.  He is given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many years.  It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's books are now gone.  Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations?  Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                                         
                                        My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof, he's gone.  Problem solved.
                                         
                                         
                                        I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was a lot of money back then.  They were typed and specific for that chela that paid for the service.  The typed reading was secret, never to be shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative reactions.  One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so simular so they pulled them out and compared.  Each one was exactly like the other, word for word.  I remember they were about 20-25 pages.  Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where sold as being specific for that chela.  I wonder how many he duped doing that?  Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                                      • etznab@aol.com
                                        A number of books were discontinued and I can see your point. It s too general a statement though to suggest that Paul s stuff (including tapes) is no longer
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jul 27 7:31 PM
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                                          A number of books were discontinued and I can see your point. It's too
                                          general a statement though to suggest that Paul's stuff (including
                                          tapes) is no longer in print, etc.

                                          http://www.eckbooks.org/catalog/Talks_by_Paul_Twitchell-26-1.html

                                          Paul's tapes go all the way back to 1966.

                                          http://www.eckbooks.org/catalog/Talks_by_Paul_Twitchell-26-1.html

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
                                          To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Fri, Jul 27, 2012 8:03 pm
                                          Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Looking for December 1979 Memo

                                           
                                          When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the
                                          books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print.  He is
                                          given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many
                                          years.  It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got
                                          his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's
                                          books are now gone.  Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations? 
                                          Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                                           
                                          My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof,
                                          he's gone.  Problem solved.
                                           
                                           
                                          I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was
                                          a lot of money back then.  They were typed and specific for that chela
                                          that paid for the service.  The typed reading was secret, never to be
                                          shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative
                                          reactions.  One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were
                                          talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so
                                          simular so they pulled them out and compared.  Each one was exactly
                                          like the other, word for word.  I remember they were about 20-25
                                          pages.  Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where
                                          sold as being specific for that chela.  I wonder how many he duped
                                          doing that?  Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                                        • michael112658
                                          FYI, the following books by Paul Twitchell are still available through Eckankar: The Drums of Eck The Eck Vidya, Ancient Science of Prophecy Eckankar: The Key
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jul 28 12:55 PM
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                                            FYI, the following books by Paul Twitchell are still available through Eckankar:

                                            The Drums of Eck
                                            The Eck Vidya, Ancient Science of Prophecy
                                            Eckankar: The Key to Secret Worlds
                                            The Flute of God
                                            Herbs, The Magic Healers
                                            The Key to Eckankar
                                            The Spiritual Notebook
                                            Stranger by the River
                                            Talons of Time
                                            The Tiger's Fang

                                            Most of his tapes are still around, too.

                                            Peace out.

                                            Michael

                                            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > When I said Paul was nonexistant in Eckankar, I mean that all the books, the tapes the discources he did are no longer in print. He is given credit for unveiling the path after being 'hidden' for so many years. It's just odd, that after the truth came out of where he got his inspiration for the books, lifting from other books, that Paul's books are now gone. Is that eckankar's way to handle the accusations? Why are all those tapes of Pauls gone, too?
                                            >
                                            > My guess, they wait till no one remembers him much at all, and poof, he's gone. Problem solved.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I remember Paul use to sell his Eck Vidya readings for $260. which was a lot of money back then. They were typed and specific for that chela that paid for the service. The typed reading was secret, never to be shared with another or the chela would undergo much spiritual negative reactions. One day at a Satsang I was with a few chelas that were talking of the Eck Vidya readings they had got and both seemed so simular so they pulled them out and compared. Each one was exactly like the other, word for word. I remember they were about 20-25 pages. Exactly word for word, page per page exact copies and where sold as being specific for that chela. I wonder how many he duped doing that? Anyone ever find an old Twitch Eck Vidya reading typed?
                                            >
                                          • DAVIDP111@aol.com
                                            I was going by the last printed eckankar catalog I had seen and had no tape of of Pauls listed (this was years ago). I guess it s nice that Twitchell is still
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jul 28 10:40 PM
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                                              I was going by the last printed eckankar catalog I had seen and had no tape of of Pauls listed (this was years ago).  I guess it's nice that Twitchell is still remembered in eckankar at least via his talks.  I suppose no issues were risen by the talks, just his written works.
                                               
                                               
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