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Gross / Klemp Transition

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  • etznab18
    There was something significant about the transition that I feel bears repeating. Harold Klemp was named LEM [Not Mahanta] in 1981 according to the sources I
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 18, 2011
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      There was something significant about the transition that I feel bears repeating. Harold Klemp was named LEM [Not Mahanta] in 1981 according to the sources I have seen. What I feel is more significant, however, involves the Paul Twitchell library and personal files. Reportedly the files were not open to Harold Klemp until about 1983. I understand that Harold came out with so many talks about Paul Twitchell in 1984 AFTER he gained access to those files and did some research about P.T. first.

      The reason I feel this significant is that Harold Klemp had been the leader of Eckankar for around two years already. Things were not going well between he and Darwin by this time either. Events leading to the removal and termination of Darwin Gross beginning in August 1983, at least. Example:

      When Darwin Gross appointed Harold Klemp as the "Living Eck Master" in 1981 he had no idea that two years later his successor would excommunicate him from Eckankar, ban his books from sale, and instigate a lawsuit against him for business impropriety and copyright infringement. But that is exactly what happened. In a "Personal and Confidential" letter dated January 4, 1984, Harold Klemp informed Darwin Gross of his removal from Eckankar: [....]

      http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm9.html

      Getting back to the Paul Twitchell files, Doug Marman writes:

      "[....] A few years after Harold became the Master [1984?], he began researching and going through Paul's old files. That was after Darwin turned Paul's library over to Harold. It certainly would be true to say that Harold saw a side of Paul he had not seen before, as did I [Doug Marman] when Harold gave me permission to look through the records. Paul's files gave some interesting insights into Paul's past, which Paul never spoke about. So Harold began to make a more thorough study. [....]"

      http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm

      Reading about Harold Klemp and the way that he viewed Paul Twitchell back in the 1960s and 1970s - including the disrobing in the airport and the bridge-jumping incidents - it gave me the impression that he [Harold] for a time practically idolized Paul Twitchell and the role of LEM. So, up until the time before Harold Klemp started to do his research, I believe he was probably ignorant about a number of things just like a lot of other Eckists. Imagine finding out then about so many things only AFTER you're LEM for about two years already. And imagine what had taken place contemporary with Harold's research. I mean the split between Harold and Darwin and the subsequent schisms among members. How critical could Harold have been about Paul Twitchell and Eckankar at that time and still kept his job? This was around the time back when the board of directors had more power than they do today. And if Harold was subject to any kind of employment agreement, contract (whatever) he might very well have had his hands tied about how much he could do. Certainly he (and the board) could do (and did) a lot concerning Darwin Gross, but how much could (or did) they do about Paul Twitchell and any of his fabrications and plagiarisms, etc.? One can get a feel for this after reading over the 1984 transcripts. Sure, Harold was critical of Paul, but Harold was also LEM and responsible for the Eckankar organization. Is it really any great wonder then why Harold phrased things about Paul Twitchell and Eckankar the way he did back in 1984? I think he was faced with telling the truth and with protecting the organization at the same time. IMO concessions were made.

      Going back to the Doug Marman quote I gave, here is the following paragraph:

      About this same time, Harold began hearing from a number of ECKists about passages in other books that sounded similar to Paul's, and further stories about how Paul had studied with Kirpal Singh and worked for L. Ron Hubbard, which had circulated around since the early days. So, with Paul's files handy, Harold started digging.

      http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm

      Harold started digging? Hmmm ...? And why, oh why, did he start doing that? It didn't have anything to do with the 1983 edition of David Lane's The Making of a Spiritual Movement now did it?

      Fact is, David Lane uncovered things many other people never knew. And only after David published his research did many more people also start talking about it publicly. Iow, it looks (to me) like Harold and Eckankar really had no choice but to come out and address things that nobody could deny. Well, since the days of David Lane, Ford Johnson and Doug Marman people continue to uncover more. Including things the former did not even know themselves. For example, I and others have found more apparent plagiarisms of which David Lane and others were unaware.

      So the dialogues and groups talking about Eckankar can be helpful and lead to further discoveries, IMO. Especially when they bring together longtime members who were there and saw firsthand many of the goings on. Perhaps the only way that "Eckankar" will come out and address so many things to more people's satisfaction is when it feels like there really isn't a choice. Maybe like when the Catholic Church had to admit Earth was not the center of the universe, solar system, etc., etc. Iow, once a critical number, or mass of people find out and know something to be true, then those who continue to deny it to be true will not for long be able to suffer doing it.
    • etznab18
      And if Harold was subject to any kind of employment agreement, contract (whatever) he might very well have had his hands tied about how much he could do.
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 18, 2011
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        "And if Harold was subject to any kind of employment agreement, contract (whatever) he might very well have had his hands tied about how much he could do."

        Especially see last sentence of page one and first paragraph of page two.

        http://tinyurl.com/3moyxds

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > There was something significant about the transition that I feel bears repeating. Harold Klemp was named LEM [Not Mahanta] in 1981 according to the sources I have seen. What I feel is more significant, however, involves the Paul Twitchell library and personal files. Reportedly the files were not open to Harold Klemp until about 1983. I understand that Harold came out with so many talks about Paul Twitchell in 1984 AFTER he gained access to those files and did some research about P.T. first.
        >
        > The reason I feel this significant is that Harold Klemp had been the leader of Eckankar for around two years already. Things were not going well between he and Darwin by this time either. Events leading to the removal and termination of Darwin Gross beginning in August 1983, at least. Example:
        >
        > When Darwin Gross appointed Harold Klemp as the "Living Eck Master" in 1981 he had no idea that two years later his successor would excommunicate him from Eckankar, ban his books from sale, and instigate a lawsuit against him for business impropriety and copyright infringement. But that is exactly what happened. In a "Personal and Confidential" letter dated January 4, 1984, Harold Klemp informed Darwin Gross of his removal from Eckankar: [....]
        >
        > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm9.html
        >
        > Getting back to the Paul Twitchell files, Doug Marman writes:
        >
        > "[....] A few years after Harold became the Master [1984?], he began researching and going through Paul's old files. That was after Darwin turned Paul's library over to Harold. It certainly would be true to say that Harold saw a side of Paul he had not seen before, as did I [Doug Marman] when Harold gave me permission to look through the records. Paul's files gave some interesting insights into Paul's past, which Paul never spoke about. So Harold began to make a more thorough study. [....]"
        >
        > http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm
        >
        > Reading about Harold Klemp and the way that he viewed Paul Twitchell back in the 1960s and 1970s - including the disrobing in the airport and the bridge-jumping incidents - it gave me the impression that he [Harold] for a time practically idolized Paul Twitchell and the role of LEM. So, up until the time before Harold Klemp started to do his research, I believe he was probably ignorant about a number of things just like a lot of other Eckists. Imagine finding out then about so many things only AFTER you're LEM for about two years already. And imagine what had taken place contemporary with Harold's research. I mean the split between Harold and Darwin and the subsequent schisms among members. How critical could Harold have been about Paul Twitchell and Eckankar at that time and still kept his job? This was around the time back when the board of directors had more power than they do today. And if Harold was subject to any kind of employment agreement, contract (whatever) he might very well have had his hands tied about how much he could do. Certainly he (and the board) could do (and did) a lot concerning Darwin Gross, but how much could (or did) they do about Paul Twitchell and any of his fabrications and plagiarisms, etc.? One can get a feel for this after reading over the 1984 transcripts. Sure, Harold was critical of Paul, but Harold was also LEM and responsible for the Eckankar organization. Is it really any great wonder then why Harold phrased things about Paul Twitchell and Eckankar the way he did back in 1984? I think he was faced with telling the truth and with protecting the organization at the same time. IMO concessions were made.
        >
        > Going back to the Doug Marman quote I gave, here is the following paragraph:
        >
        > About this same time, Harold began hearing from a number of ECKists about passages in other books that sounded similar to Paul's, and further stories about how Paul had studied with Kirpal Singh and worked for L. Ron Hubbard, which had circulated around since the early days. So, with Paul's files handy, Harold started digging.
        >
        > http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm
        >
        > Harold started digging? Hmmm ...? And why, oh why, did he start doing that? It didn't have anything to do with the 1983 edition of David Lane's The Making of a Spiritual Movement now did it?
        >
        > Fact is, David Lane uncovered things many other people never knew. And only after David published his research did many more people also start talking about it publicly. Iow, it looks (to me) like Harold and Eckankar really had no choice but to come out and address things that nobody could deny. Well, since the days of David Lane, Ford Johnson and Doug Marman people continue to uncover more. Including things the former did not even know themselves. For example, I and others have found more apparent plagiarisms of which David Lane and others were unaware.
        >
        > So the dialogues and groups talking about Eckankar can be helpful and lead to further discoveries, IMO. Especially when they bring together longtime members who were there and saw firsthand many of the goings on. Perhaps the only way that "Eckankar" will come out and address so many things to more people's satisfaction is when it feels like there really isn't a choice. Maybe like when the Catholic Church had to admit Earth was not the center of the universe, solar system, etc., etc. Iow, once a critical number, or mass of people find out and know something to be true, then those who continue to deny it to be true will not for long be able to suffer doing it.
        >
      • etznab18
        Also see last sentence on page 7 and 1st paragraph on page 8 with regard to Trade secrets.
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 18, 2011
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          Also see last sentence on page 7 and 1st paragraph on page 8 with regard to Trade secrets.

          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
          >
          > "And if Harold was subject to any kind of employment agreement, contract (whatever) he might very well have had his hands tied about how much he could do."
          >
          > Especially see last sentence of page one and first paragraph of page two.
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/3moyxds
          >
          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > There was something significant about the transition that I feel bears repeating. Harold Klemp was named LEM [Not Mahanta] in 1981 according to the sources I have seen. What I feel is more significant, however, involves the Paul Twitchell library and personal files. Reportedly the files were not open to Harold Klemp until about 1983. I understand that Harold came out with so many talks about Paul Twitchell in 1984 AFTER he gained access to those files and did some research about P.T. first.
          > >
          > > The reason I feel this significant is that Harold Klemp had been the leader of Eckankar for around two years already. Things were not going well between he and Darwin by this time either. Events leading to the removal and termination of Darwin Gross beginning in August 1983, at least. Example:
          > >
          > > When Darwin Gross appointed Harold Klemp as the "Living Eck Master" in 1981 he had no idea that two years later his successor would excommunicate him from Eckankar, ban his books from sale, and instigate a lawsuit against him for business impropriety and copyright infringement. But that is exactly what happened. In a "Personal and Confidential" letter dated January 4, 1984, Harold Klemp informed Darwin Gross of his removal from Eckankar: [....]
          > >
          > > http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/chapters/tmsm9.html
          > >
          > > Getting back to the Paul Twitchell files, Doug Marman writes:
          > >
          > > "[....] A few years after Harold became the Master [1984?], he began researching and going through Paul's old files. That was after Darwin turned Paul's library over to Harold. It certainly would be true to say that Harold saw a side of Paul he had not seen before, as did I [Doug Marman] when Harold gave me permission to look through the records. Paul's files gave some interesting insights into Paul's past, which Paul never spoke about. So Harold began to make a more thorough study. [....]"
          > >
          > > http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm
          > >
          > > Reading about Harold Klemp and the way that he viewed Paul Twitchell back in the 1960s and 1970s - including the disrobing in the airport and the bridge-jumping incidents - it gave me the impression that he [Harold] for a time practically idolized Paul Twitchell and the role of LEM. So, up until the time before Harold Klemp started to do his research, I believe he was probably ignorant about a number of things just like a lot of other Eckists. Imagine finding out then about so many things only AFTER you're LEM for about two years already. And imagine what had taken place contemporary with Harold's research. I mean the split between Harold and Darwin and the subsequent schisms among members. How critical could Harold have been about Paul Twitchell and Eckankar at that time and still kept his job? This was around the time back when the board of directors had more power than they do today. And if Harold was subject to any kind of employment agreement, contract (whatever) he might very well have had his hands tied about how much he could do. Certainly he (and the board) could do (and did) a lot concerning Darwin Gross, but how much could (or did) they do about Paul Twitchell and any of his fabrications and plagiarisms, etc.? One can get a feel for this after reading over the 1984 transcripts. Sure, Harold was critical of Paul, but Harold was also LEM and responsible for the Eckankar organization. Is it really any great wonder then why Harold phrased things about Paul Twitchell and Eckankar the way he did back in 1984? I think he was faced with telling the truth and with protecting the organization at the same time. IMO concessions were made.
          > >
          > > Going back to the Doug Marman quote I gave, here is the following paragraph:
          > >
          > > About this same time, Harold began hearing from a number of ECKists about passages in other books that sounded similar to Paul's, and further stories about how Paul had studied with Kirpal Singh and worked for L. Ron Hubbard, which had circulated around since the early days. So, with Paul's files handy, Harold started digging.
          > >
          > > http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm
          > >
          > > Harold started digging? Hmmm ...? And why, oh why, did he start doing that? It didn't have anything to do with the 1983 edition of David Lane's The Making of a Spiritual Movement now did it?
          > >
          > > Fact is, David Lane uncovered things many other people never knew. And only after David published his research did many more people also start talking about it publicly. Iow, it looks (to me) like Harold and Eckankar really had no choice but to come out and address things that nobody could deny. Well, since the days of David Lane, Ford Johnson and Doug Marman people continue to uncover more. Including things the former did not even know themselves. For example, I and others have found more apparent plagiarisms of which David Lane and others were unaware.
          > >
          > > So the dialogues and groups talking about Eckankar can be helpful and lead to further discoveries, IMO. Especially when they bring together longtime members who were there and saw firsthand many of the goings on. Perhaps the only way that "Eckankar" will come out and address so many things to more people's satisfaction is when it feels like there really isn't a choice. Maybe like when the Catholic Church had to admit Earth was not the center of the universe, solar system, etc., etc. Iow, once a critical number, or mass of people find out and know something to be true, then those who continue to deny it to be true will not for long be able to suffer doing it.
          > >
          >
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