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Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Patti Simpson Rivinus died at age 77

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Along with Patti, I believe Gail was just as influential (if not more). If Eckankar does say something about Patti I wonder how it can escape mentioning the
    Message 1 of 50 , May 15, 2011
      Along with Patti, I believe Gail was just as influential (if not more).
      If Eckankar does say something about Patti I wonder how it can escape
      mentioning the fact that she went (was?) inactive? Maybe a story about
      how she rejoined? Or, accepted the Mahanta just before death? Maybe.
      Maybe not. I don't know the exact story here. I assumed that Patti was
      inactive back in 2004 and if she didn't become active after five years
      then that would make her officially a non-member.

      For somebody as influential as Patti, it always perplexed me how/why
      she would choose not to be a member (if in deed that was the case). I
      remember wondering for a number of years whether Patti was a current
      member or not. Then I read where Doug Marman, I believe, wrote that she
      was not active. I can't be sure if I remember whether she rejoined
      since then, but I think there was a rumor that maybe she did (if that
      were true wouldn't the obituary mention the name of her current
      church?). I don't know.

      Far as Eckankar membership goes, I wondered the same about Gail - the
      wife of two Eck Masters, including the founder of Eckankar. I guess it
      depends on who you ask, but I suppose that if Gail was an active member
      then I would have heard something about her since I joined Eckankar in
      Truth is, I hardly EVER heard her name mentioned as being currently
      involved with Eckankar.

      So this is another perplexing thing. If Gail is not a member, or chose
      to leave like Patti did, and if Louis Bluth (1st President of Eckankar)
      and others are no longer members I think it amounts to more than just
      one little reg flag. (Who was that blond flute player? Did I hear
      someplace that she left as well?) However, I haven't confirmed about

      As a member of Eckankar, people like Patti, Gail and others become like
      part of the "family" in a way. Especially considering their roles and
      contributions to the path of Eckankar. It is NOT unusual IMO for a
      member to ask about ... "BTW. Whatever happened to so and so? Are they
      still a member?"

      In the past my experience with prominent members who are no longer
      heard from again amounts to hearing from Eckankar clergy something to
      the effect that "they chose to follow the teachings on their own, or in
      private". However, I believe that some of the "missing persons"
      actually dropped out of Eckankar and, for whatever reason, people just
      don't want to talk about it. Especially the reason(s) why. Getting the
      run around from people only makes me much more curious.

      I think Doug mentioned something about wanting to let Patti tell her
      own story. However, I don't know that I ever heard Patti tell her story
      about why she wasn't active (except I read something about here wanting
      to pursue astrology, etc.). Don't know now if ever I will.

      Let me see if I can locate that D.M. quote for reference. This is from
      2004. I'm not certain, but assume it was by Doug. Sounds (to me) like
      the way he writes.

      [....] As for your question: Is Patti Simpson still an ECKist? I must
      say that I'm not comfortable answering for her. While lots of people
      like to fit people into two categories - ECKist or non-ECKist - I think
      that there is a lot more color between these two extremes. I know
      people who do not necessarily look to Harold as their Master, but
      adamantly call themselves ECKists. And I know some ECKists who are so
      fundamentalist in their approach that they regularly treat other
      ECKists as if they were non-ECKists. For me, I long ago stopped seeing
      any line that separates the two. However a person might see themselves
      is fine to me, but from my viewpoint we are all seekers of truth and
      therefore brother and sisters on the path of truth. The rest is just
      name calling. I know that Patti does still feel very fond feelings
      toward Paul, but she is also not active in Eckankar. Past that, I would
      rather she answer the rest for herself. [....]


      For some reason I assumed that was written by Doug Marman. That link is
      to an old defunct attempt to chronicle the T.S. bulletin board and so
      the original post - with the poster's name - is not illustrated the
      same way there. However, I believe the body of text is the same. The
      link I had for the other T.S. bulletin board comes up as a malicious
      website, and I cant view it [T.S. changed the address' for their B.B.
      links some time ago and I think this (the 2nd part of this address) was
      to the old page. Maybe I used the Way Back Machine to come up with this
      address, I don't remember.


      When I check for the T.S. posts for Feburary 16th, 2004 (date assigned
      to the vanilla forum post) I get an error for the page (p. 164) where I
      think the post should appear. Example [does anybody else get an error
      message for this page?]:


      In any case, at this point I can only assume that was a post by Doug
      Marman confirming that Patti Simpson was "not active in Eckankar".
      Without viewing the original T.S. post, however, I can't verify at this
      point whether that quote was by Doug. Nor can I confirm whether Patti
      ever became active in Eckankar since then. However, I would still like
      to hear Patti's story. Maybe there's something on the Web someplace.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: David Osborn <panfluteman2000@...>
      To: eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 7:31 pm
      Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Patti Simpson Rivinus died at age 77

      Hello Eckankartruthers,
           Gadzooks! That was the day after my birthday!  Yes, it was indeed
      the passing of someone who was influential in the early Eckankar
      movement.  In fact, it's hard to think of anyone who was more
      influential than she was, or who gave so much of herself to Eckankar. 
      Or what the Eckankar movement would have been without her.  And Klemp,
      with his revisionist view of Eck history, probably brushes off anyone
      besides Paul Twitchell and himself as being inconsequential. 
                                                     May the Blessings Be!

      --- On Sun, 5/15/11, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Patti Simpson Rivinus died at age 77
      To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 4:03 PM

      Hello All,
      Yes. Patti Simpson Rivinus died on May 4, 2011.
      I wonder how many Eckists know, or if Klemp
      will mention her since he still hasn't mentioned
      Darwin Gross' (972nd LEM/Mahanta) death in
      March, 2008.

      I wonder if Patti was still an ECKist and entitled
      to the "protection" and "guidance" of the Mahanta?



      Leanne Thompson  wrote:

      A friend told me about that.


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    • butterflyschmidt@yahoo.de
      Thank you very much Sharon for this post and Colleen s article. It is very good. I have not read it all yet. But when I read about Karin in the play of
      Message 50 of 50 , May 13, 2011
        Thank you very much Sharon for this post and Colleen's article.
        It is very good. I have not read it all yet.
        But when I read about "Karin" in the play of Ingmar Bergman, a role Colleen played, I heard a tone in my right ear. Not the Eck(! haha).
        No, Karin is one of my first names. So it represents part of me so to speak, it is never heard because people call me by my first first name.
        This tone in my ear is something I hear when I remember shock experiences. Yes, it is meaningful to read Colleen's article. It is about feelings. Something Eckankar leaves out in their teaching, they call it unimportant.
        Thank you lovely Sharon for spreading Colleens article.
        I will read the rest later.
        Love and hugs from
        "Schmidt" ( my real name is
        Take the first letters and you may remember this terrible person from 10 years ago.

        But I would, for the time being, prefer to call myself "Schmidt".

        Thank you for continuing this phantastic group Sharon.

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...> wrote:
        > Congratulations to our own Colleen Russell on being published in the journal of the International Cultic Studies Association!!
        > You can read her article, "Touched: Disconfirming Pathogenic Beliefs of Thought Reform Through the Process of Acting", on her website:
        > http://www.colleenrussellmft.com/1447/2995.html
        > Don't let the "professional" title and big words scare you like it did me at first - it's an excellent article, and Colleen shares a lot about her experiences joining ekult, getting out, and healing. There's a lot of helpful sharing there, that I'm sure we can all use in our own process of recovery.
        > When I left ekult back in '98, I never in a million years thought that years later, I'd still be affected by my cult experience, and might be for the rest of my life. Colleen's article gave me some good food for thought on some areas, and pointers on maybe how to go about getting a whole lot better than I am right now!
        > And for any "newbies" who maybe haven't checked out the "links" here, there's a lot of excellent information on cults & recovery at the International Cultic Studies Association website: http://www.icsahome.com
        > More than one person has written to me, objecting to ICSA's requiring paid membership to access everything there, but in case anyone else feels that way, I'd like to say that there's "tons" of free info there, and personally I have absolutely *no* problem with their paid memberships - they are, after all, a professional organization and need an income to do all the good work they do in educating professionals & others about cult recovery. I've heard from a lot of people who sought professional help in recovery, but it's not an area of expertise for many therapists. It's good to help individual cult members, but it's even better to enable professionals to help *many* cult members. I had a freebie trial membership there for awhile, awhile back - the amount of "paid for" information was totally overwhelming, and a lot of it was just plain way over my head.
        > So, when I got Colleen's announcement this morning I was still on my first cup of coffee, and the title alone made me think perhaps I should wake up first. But, I'm trying to be better about keeping order in my inbox - what a mess - and I'd sworn that starting today, I was just going to start at the top and work my way down, otherwise I end up with not even reading things I'd like to until a month later, or never. As of right now, I've got over 2,400 unread emails - of course, that goes back a lot of years & a lot of it probably old "spam", but still....
        > Anyway, I'm glad I decided to read the article right away, and while for awhile at first, I had to do some hard thinking and "translating" in my head - at one point I found myself thinking "This ain't bathroom reading material". But I very quickly got "into" it, and found myself feeling sorry and a bit disappointed when I reached the end. I wanted more. I plan to get back to it again, and print out a copy next time I'm at my daughter's - I ran out of ink maybe 5 years ago and haven't gotten around to getting more. <gg> Unfortunately, there's no such thing as cyber post-it tabs.
        > Colleen's article is great reading for both the "average" person and the professional. And I hope that in the future, we'll see more articles by Colleen - and hopefully, a book!!
        > BTW, Colleen - if you write anything else, always feel free to post it here, and even put a copy in the "files" section here, whether it gets published or not. And although it's a bit of a loss that you're not very active here on the internet anymore - newbies, Colleen did some good battling over at a.r.e. back in "the day", and had a Yahoo "help" group for awhile - in the long run & bigger picture, you're doing important work that will ultimately benefit a lot more people. There's been so much excellent writing by many former eckists over the years that's basically lost, and will never be seen by anyone. Around the time I left ekult, I actually went back to Day One at alt.religion.eckankar and read every post! I don't think it would be humanly possibly now, so many years later.
        > And while I think of it, for anyone doing research, something I'd forgotten...for those who are interested in ekult's Shabd Yoga origins & how Twitch corrupted them, there's an excellent article by a former eckist, "Undoing the Damage of Rogue Light & Sound Gurus --Deviations from The Path" at: http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/rogue1.html
        > Okay, gotta go - thank you again, Colleen! Now...go get started on a book!!
        > Hugs,
        > Sharon
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