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Re: Why they're so strange

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Tom, A few brief summarizing comments. I do agree that Eckists exhibit cult-like thinking. I saw it all the time when I was posting over at a.r.e a few weeks
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 25, 2010
      Tom,

      A few brief summarizing comments.

      I do agree that Eckists exhibit cult-like thinking. I saw it all the time when I was posting over at a.r.e a few weeks ago. I also saw it in Eckankar when I was a member, but I didn't see it as cult-like at that time because I was a member and I didn't wish to see Eckankar as a cult. Probably because I couldn't handle that particular truth at that time.

      The biggest issue as I see it is that they can be extremely dogmatic. In other words that have an attitude of "I am right and nobody else's opinion matters." When they get to be that severe in their thinking then they are exhibiting cult-like behavior.

      Your contention is that this "holier than thou" attitude is programmed into them by Eckankar. I agree, but I still think that they are partially responsible. After all, the truth about Eckankar's lies and curses is all over the Internet. And the really disturbing thing is when these people read it, they somehow manage to disregard it. In my opinion, this indicates an even worse cult-like behavior than their holier than thou attitude. When faced with the truth, they ignore it. That is VERY disturbing. And I will readily admit that it took me ten years to finally leave Eckankar after first seeing some of the signs that something was amiss. So I know how difficult it is to face the truth.

      So, Tom, I don't agree with all the details of what you wrote, especially the two psychologists' view of things, but I agree with your general position and conclusions. In fact, I would like to see more well-thought out essays such as the one you wrote.

      Jonathan
    • Sharon
      Hi All! Etznab, I knew what you meant the first time, and I have to laugh sometimes, you are *so* precise!! I m getting much closer to unpacking & organizing,
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 29, 2010
        Hi All!

        Etznab, I knew what you meant the first time, and I have to laugh sometimes, you are *so* precise!! I'm getting much closer to unpacking & organizing, hooking up the scanner, etc. But, I think that particular box might be on top of a pile - can't promise, but I'll try to find it & scan it from somewhere else soon. BTW, for many years I've been a bit concerned about what to do with all the eckstuff people have sent me when I'm done with it - and hopefully I will fulfill my promise to get it on the internet - I think you'd be a good person to send it all to.

        Right now my main concern is summer's over, and what the heck am I going to do with all the plants I need to bring indoors? I went a bit nutsy at Lowe's this summer, especially their clearance rack. The other day I got a 5' tall draecaena for $3!!! It's not just the usual houseplants - it's all the plants I can winter-over and replant outside next year, which saves money. For me, and 5 other people's flowerbeds, 3 of which are "mine". Plus, this year I sort of got hooked on succulents & orchids. And I have a real problem with propagating. In fact, I was just out back and thought hmmmmm....instead of starting new ones, I can root cuttings from my yummy Jersey tomatoes, which came up "wild" from last year's. I need rehab, I think. Maybe it's being post-menopause and no longer being able to reproduce, but those feelings are sort of still there, and I do it with plants now. Too many humans on earth, anyway.

        Anyway, while I'm here, just this morning I realized I still haven't read quite a few "digests" & posts here in the last month, just skimmed thru some in this thread.

        Leaf - thanks for re-posting that post from a.r.e.! In fact, I was going to send the a.r.e. digest that was in, along with two of Etznab's posts, and send them to that young eckist who recently wrote to me. Poor kid is a bit hurting & confused, I was there many years ago. For anyone who's interested, there's info in the "files" about the former HI you mentioned.

        David, be nice!! When I was an eckist, what I "learned" from the Official Cult Scriptures and one of my own letters from MN was that the initiation was sort of an acknowledgement of the spiritual growth you'd already attained, decided "on the inner" between master & chela, etc. Plus, there was always a lot of stuff about the spiritual "highness" of the HIs - like, newbies couldn't really be sure about interpreting their own dreams, so Klemp said to check with an HI.

        I was sort of more realistic about myself. When I got the "invitation" for my second, the letter said something like congrats, you've mastered the astral plane. Excuse me? I still hadn't "mastered" the physical plane, much less the astral!! Towards the end, I was starting to think that okay, maybe "the master" knew me better than I knew myself, which evidently was something I wasn't "ready" for yet. Otherwise, I always thought that "Wah Z" ran into me, sort of lost & bouncing around on the other planes, so altho I was not "ready", he felt sorry for me & kindly "accepted" me long before I was "ready", just to keep me out of trouble.

        Heck, I was scared to death & very intimidated about going to my first ekult bookstudy, after all I'd read about eckists & HIs!! But, I wanted to learn, especially all that high holey secret wisdom that was hidden from the "profane masses". Reminds me of another thing in the "files" - down at the bottom, Twitch's "Wisdom Notes".

        Anyway, back when they were taking the book version of LTG III out of print and trying to sell all the remaining copies, and I was sort of upset because it used to be a "high" discourse series, and I was on a budget and just couldn't afford the book at the time. Another veteran eckist in my group commented that he saw it in the bookroom at a seminar and reached out for it, but stopped, felt he just wasn't "ready" for it yet. It was many years before an online eckfriend loaned it to me, not that long before I left.

        Okay, gotta go, trying to do a million other things right now.

        Hugs,

        Sharon
      • David Osborn
        Yeah, ten years might be a very common, or the most common, general time frame for the time between when you first feel that something is amiss and the time
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 1, 2010
          Yeah, ten years might be a very common, or the most common, general time frame for the time between when you first feel that something is amiss and the time you finally leave.  That seems to be about the time frame that it was in my case.  In my case, although I did have that "ah-hah" moment when I saw clear as day that it was nothing but an empty initiation game, I still had quite a period of hemming and hawing - for me, I missed the camaraderie and the social contacts.  Unlike many of you, who seem to have actively come to your decision and left, I kind of slowly and passively drifted out over a period of years.  You might say that it was a process of gradual estrangement.  It was only after I had heard the administrators at headquarters mindlessly repeat the "you can still keep your initiations if you get back in before your five year grace period expires", when I had repeatedly told them that I wanted to go back to the beginning and do all my initiations over and get them right this time, that I finally saw that the situation was hopeless, and that nothing more could be done.  And then I just shrugged my shoulders and gave up trying to get back in.
                                                               David

          --- On Sat, 9/25/10, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          From: jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Why they're so strange
          To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 3:21 PM

          Tom,

          A few brief summarizing comments.

          I do agree that Eckists exhibit cult-like thinking. I saw it all the time when I was posting over at a.r.e a few weeks ago. I also saw it in Eckankar when I was a member, but I didn't see it as cult-like at that time because I was a member and I didn't wish to see Eckankar as a cult. Probably because I couldn't handle that particular truth at that time.

          The biggest issue as I see it is that they can be extremely dogmatic. In other words that have an attitude of "I am right and nobody else's opinion matters." When they get to be that severe in their thinking then they are exhibiting cult-like behavior.

          Your contention is that this "holier than thou" attitude is programmed into them by Eckankar. I agree, but I still think that they are partially responsible. After all, the truth about Eckankar's lies and curses is all over the Internet. And the really disturbing thing is when these people read it, they somehow manage to disregard it. In my opinion, this indicates an even worse cult-like behavior than their holier than thou attitude. When faced with the truth, they ignore it. That is VERY disturbing. And I will readily admit that it took me ten years to finally leave Eckankar after first seeing some of the signs that something was amiss. So I know how difficult it is to face the truth.

          So, Tom, I don't agree with all the details of what you wrote, especially the two psychologists' view of things, but I agree with your general position and conclusions. In fact, I would like to see more well-thought out essays such as the one you wrote.

          Jonathan





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