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Fw: Re: Young eckists (from Leaf)

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  • Sharon
    (Leaf - I just got this in my personal email, just tried to send it back to you & ask you to repost directly to the group, but my email was returned, your
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 15 12:24 PM
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      (Leaf - I just got this in my personal email, just tried to send it back to you & ask you to repost directly to the group, but my email was returned, your address isn't accepting new any email right now. Best wishes in your new home!

      This is an interesting subject, I got busy but will post something either later tonight or tomorrow.)


      --- On Tue, 6/15/10, tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:

      > From: tomleafeater <tianyue@...>
      > Subject: Re: Young eckists
      > To: eckankartruth-owner@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 2:06 PM
      > I've been busy moving 2000 miles to a
      > new home the last several weeks, just recently getting
      > internet service again, and just now jumped in to see what
      > is going on here, and this caught my eye.
      >
      > Do the eckankar rulz say you have to be 18 to join
      > eckankar? I'd forgotten that. But identification isn't
      > required, so anyone can join regardless of age, if they
      > choose, it would seem.
      >
      > Back when I joined I was sixteen, and no one objected.
      > Everyone knew my age (people like Patti Simpson, for
      > example, who could have alerted the eck office). Hell, I was
      > going to meetings at age 14. No one cared.
      >
      > But way back then there was clearly no rule about age,
      > although now that I think about it and remember, soon after
      > I joined a rule was created about that, but one could join
      > with parents permission, even if the parents weren't
      > members. My kid neighbor across the street was denied
      > permission to join by her parents, after she signed up and
      > paid for a years worth of discourses. There was no refund of
      > her money.
      >
      > 'Course, she made the "mistake" (as I thought of it at the
      > time) of letting her parents see the discourses, which of
      > course, came in the mail! They were horrified when they read
      > them, since they were catholic. They demanded she never
      > contact eckankar or have anything to do with it again.
      >
      > But I joined, and was not asked my age, and once my age was
      > known, nothing at all was said about it. They took my money
      > (lots of it) that I earned mowing lawns and pulling weeds
      > and later working at minimum wage jobs, all while I was
      > under 18.
      >
      > I think eckankar can be particularly hard on kids as a
      > cult. But this is something kids won't realize until they
      > are much older and look back at their young years and
      > realize what they may have lost if they spent time, as I
      > did, doing eck stuff and little else. Kids can become stuck
      > in an insular world, shutting out experiences, if their
      > focus gets too involved with "using their last lifetime to
      > spread eckankar" and other illusory, enticing distractions
      > that for me served as an escape.
      >
      > What a waste it was for me. Yes, I have some regrets about
      > that part of my life. I won't pretend otherwise just to
      > satisfy those who think I should dismiss it all with a wave
      > of a hand while parroting some sugar coated platitude about
      > how it was "my destiny."
      >
      > Due to my young entrance into the dreamy world of eckankar,
      > there were real consequences in my life that affected me in
      > later years. Kids face a big world out there, and they need
      > better preparation to face life than aphorisms like "if you
      > build it they will come," or "the Mahanta will take care of
      > it," or "leave it to the Eck" or "you're right where you're
      > supposed to be."
      >
      > Speaking for myself only.
      >
      > Leaf
      >
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com,
      > jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Sharon,
      > >
      > > You have my permission to repost them.
      > >
      > > In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are
      > not familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that
      > people must be 18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody
      > younger than that who is a member of Eckankar is a member
      > because they are part of their parent's family membership in
      > Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am wrong.
      > >
      > > Jonathan
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com,
      > "Sharon" <brighttigress@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com,
      > jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hey everybody,
      > > > >
      > > > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I
      > just deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say
      > anything that important. I'm making this post so that you
      > don't wonder whether the moderator deleted them.
      > > > >
      > > > > Jonathan
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
      > > >
      > > > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that
      > important after you've woken up & been out for awhile!!
      > <gg>  But there was a time when it was "life
      > itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
      > > >
      > > > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. 
      > What the heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was
      > into black magic or something?  I wonder exactly what
      > she saw in the internet?  I was thinking maybe she saw
      > the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist posted a bunch
      > of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch
      > Project quite awhile ago.
      > > >
      > > > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt
      > when I first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and
      > confusion.  I certainly hope she's not nasty &
      > totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually ends up as
      > a "high initiate" eckthug.  <gg>
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I
      > didn't delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted
      > posts.  Do you mind if I reply to them and re-post
      > them?  You know, usually people want posts deleted
      > because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things -
      > for example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't
      > believe I forgot it!  Over the years a few people have
      > asked me to delete their posts, but it can get complicated
      > because their posts are repeated in replies, so at some
      > point I was very happy to learn that people can delete their
      > own posts, and that's what I told people to do.  If
      > they want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact
      > whoever had responded to them.  I just didn't have the
      > time & motivation, especially since altho I could
      > understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the
      > whole, some good stuff would be lost.
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he
      > "joined" ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I
      > did.  When I looked at some of the things aimed at
      > young people, a lot of it made me very uncomfortable. 
      > Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years but I
      > remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an
      > example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but
      > these discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making
      > Klemp a bigger & better Santa!!
      > > >
      > > > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts
      > get reposted!
      > > >
      > > > And please, everyone, don't think that just
      > because there's no response, your posts aren't
      > important.  I'm sure many people here are like me, they
      > like whatever's posted and benefit from everyone's posts,
      > but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.
      > > >
      > > > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just
      > very happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort
      > zone, I prefer fresh air to a/c!  It's funny, different
      > people have different comfort zones, I thought last night
      > was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor was
      > freezing & turned on her heat!!
      > > >
      > > > Have a good one, everyone!
      > > >
      > > > Hugs,
      > > >
      > > > Sharon
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
    • Colleen Russell, LMFT
      Congratulations on your move, Leaf.... I am sorry that you didn t have the protection of adults who saw the harm of eckankar, the demands of total commitment
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 17 5:05 AM
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        Congratulations on your move, Leaf....

        I am sorry that you didn't have the protection of adults who saw the harm of eckankar, the demands of total commitment to serve the leader and the need to accept the ideology on an all or nothing basis. My experience is that we were led to believe that we were either "in" (functioning from a "higher consciousness" )or "out" (functioning from the negative mind!) I'm just curious, and you don't have to answer, but did Patty serve as a kind of substitute parental figure in some way, do you think? Did she flirt with you (as she often did with other men, Twitchell included). Or, did Eckankar serve that function in some way? I thought about a French author who wrote a book about cults called "Soul Snatchers" in which he conceives cults symbolically as mother and cult leaders as father. Gosh, you were so young, Leaf. I think that sometimes cults offer ways to leave a family of origin with a person's good intentions to find a community with spiritual meaning...but the process of separation, individuation is blocked in major ways...until finally a person leaves the organization. The coping skills were so weak in Eckankar...the focus on "rely on the Inner Master" or "chant" to solve your problems or deal with any uncomfortable or painful emotions that emerged. No connecting with emotions and figuring out what their telling you, no critical thinking or problem solving skills here. Is it any wonder of the difficulty in leaving...
        Colleen

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Sharon <brighttigress@...> wrote:
        >
        > (Leaf - I just got this in my personal email, just tried to send it back to you & ask you to repost directly to the group, but my email was returned, your address isn't accepting new any email right now. Best wishes in your new home!
        >
        > This is an interesting subject, I got busy but will post something either later tonight or tomorrow.)
        >
        >
        > --- On Tue, 6/15/10, tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:
        >
        > > From: tomleafeater <tianyue@...>
        > > Subject: Re: Young eckists
        > > To: eckankartruth-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Tuesday, June 15, 2010, 2:06 PM
        > > I've been busy moving 2000 miles to a
        > > new home the last several weeks, just recently getting
        > > internet service again, and just now jumped in to see what
        > > is going on here, and this caught my eye.
        > >
        > > Do the eckankar rulz say you have to be 18 to join
        > > eckankar? I'd forgotten that. But identification isn't
        > > required, so anyone can join regardless of age, if they
        > > choose, it would seem.
        > >
        > > Back when I joined I was sixteen, and no one objected.
        > > Everyone knew my age (people like Patti Simpson, for
        > > example, who could have alerted the eck office). Hell, I was
        > > going to meetings at age 14. No one cared.
        > >
        > > But way back then there was clearly no rule about age,
        > > although now that I think about it and remember, soon after
        > > I joined a rule was created about that, but one could join
        > > with parents permission, even if the parents weren't
        > > members. My kid neighbor across the street was denied
        > > permission to join by her parents, after she signed up and
        > > paid for a years worth of discourses. There was no refund of
        > > her money.
        > >
        > > 'Course, she made the "mistake" (as I thought of it at the
        > > time) of letting her parents see the discourses, which of
        > > course, came in the mail! They were horrified when they read
        > > them, since they were catholic. They demanded she never
        > > contact eckankar or have anything to do with it again.
        > >
        > > But I joined, and was not asked my age, and once my age was
        > > known, nothing at all was said about it. They took my money
        > > (lots of it) that I earned mowing lawns and pulling weeds
        > > and later working at minimum wage jobs, all while I was
        > > under 18.
        > >
        > > I think eckankar can be particularly hard on kids as a
        > > cult. But this is something kids won't realize until they
        > > are much older and look back at their young years and
        > > realize what they may have lost if they spent time, as I
        > > did, doing eck stuff and little else. Kids can become stuck
        > > in an insular world, shutting out experiences, if their
        > > focus gets too involved with "using their last lifetime to
        > > spread eckankar" and other illusory, enticing distractions
        > > that for me served as an escape.
        > >
        > > What a waste it was for me. Yes, I have some regrets about
        > > that part of my life. I won't pretend otherwise just to
        > > satisfy those who think I should dismiss it all with a wave
        > > of a hand while parroting some sugar coated platitude about
        > > how it was "my destiny."
        > >
        > > Due to my young entrance into the dreamy world of eckankar,
        > > there were real consequences in my life that affected me in
        > > later years. Kids face a big world out there, and they need
        > > better preparation to face life than aphorisms like "if you
        > > build it they will come," or "the Mahanta will take care of
        > > it," or "leave it to the Eck" or "you're right where you're
        > > supposed to be."
        > >
        > > Speaking for myself only.
        > >
        > > Leaf
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com,
        > > jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Sharon,
        > > >
        > > > You have my permission to repost them.
        > > >
        > > > In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are
        > > not familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that
        > > people must be 18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody
        > > younger than that who is a member of Eckankar is a member
        > > because they are part of their parent's family membership in
        > > Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am wrong.
        > > >
        > > > Jonathan
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "Sharon" <brighttigress@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com,
        > > jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hey everybody,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I
        > > just deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say
        > > anything that important. I'm making this post so that you
        > > don't wonder whether the moderator deleted them.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Jonathan
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
        > > > >
        > > > > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that
        > > important after you've woken up & been out for awhile!!
        > > <gg>  But there was a time when it was "life
        > > itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
        > > > >
        > > > > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. 
        > > What the heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was
        > > into black magic or something?  I wonder exactly what
        > > she saw in the internet?  I was thinking maybe she saw
        > > the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist posted a bunch
        > > of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch
        > > Project quite awhile ago.
        > > > >
        > > > > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt
        > > when I first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and
        > > confusion.  I certainly hope she's not nasty &
        > > totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually ends up as
        > > a "high initiate" eckthug.  <gg>
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I
        > > didn't delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted
        > > posts.  Do you mind if I reply to them and re-post
        > > them?  You know, usually people want posts deleted
        > > because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things -
        > > for example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't
        > > believe I forgot it!  Over the years a few people have
        > > asked me to delete their posts, but it can get complicated
        > > because their posts are repeated in replies, so at some
        > > point I was very happy to learn that people can delete their
        > > own posts, and that's what I told people to do.  If
        > > they want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact
        > > whoever had responded to them.  I just didn't have the
        > > time & motivation, especially since altho I could
        > > understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the
        > > whole, some good stuff would be lost.
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he
        > > "joined" ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I
        > > did.  When I looked at some of the things aimed at
        > > young people, a lot of it made me very uncomfortable. 
        > > Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years but I
        > > remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an
        > > example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but
        > > these discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making
        > > Klemp a bigger & better Santa!!
        > > > >
        > > > > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts
        > > get reposted!
        > > > >
        > > > > And please, everyone, don't think that just
        > > because there's no response, your posts aren't
        > > important.  I'm sure many people here are like me, they
        > > like whatever's posted and benefit from everyone's posts,
        > > but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.
        > > > >
        > > > > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just
        > > very happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort
        > > zone, I prefer fresh air to a/c!  It's funny, different
        > > people have different comfort zones, I thought last night
        > > was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor was
        > > freezing & turned on her heat!!
        > > > >
        > > > > Have a good one, everyone!
        > > > >
        > > > > Hugs,
        > > > >
        > > > > Sharon
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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