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Young eckists

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  • Sharon
    Hi Everyone! Well, I just got back from two computer-free weeks with my younger grandchildren, had a wonderful time, maybe I won t bother unpacking at
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 3, 2010
      Hi Everyone!

      Well, I just got back from two computer-free weeks with my younger grandchildren, had a wonderful time, maybe I won't bother unpacking at all...got lots of gardening done in my son's yard, and still more to do here at home....

      Anyway, still not caught up on reading two weeks of emails - Etznab, looks like very interesting stuff at a.r.e., which I've set aside for later....and I hope one day you'll do a website with the results of all your research!

      Well, I was a bit surprised to get this email:

      "Hello "Sharon" ,
      I don't know who you are , or who you THINK you are,
      But my name is (snipped), and I am almost 14 years old and a proud member of Eckankar.
      A cult? honestly? Eckankar is the ONLY religon that doesn't force you to ANYTHING. It is open and free and I love it. I don't know what kind of black magic or whatever your into these days, but eckankar would be the LAST to be a cult. I've been in it all my life, and it's been the best years ever.

      I'd really apreciate if you quit telling people that it has a negative affect when you join, because it doesn't.

      You honestly need help, sorry ."


      Well, I'm hoping maybe others have something to say to this young lady. I don't know what all she's seen on the internet but I can imagine how shocked she was, because I was shocked when I got on the internet as a true-blue eckie.

      It's just so sad. Anyone else remember being 13? Gawd, we were so innocent, we had *no* idea what life was all about although we thought we did.

      Liz, don't know if you're still reading here, I know you're busy and isn't it great to be out? But I thought of you, you're the only one I can think of who was raised in ekult.

      I'm just sort of totally talked out on this subject. I think I've said everything that I could possibly say, and anything "eck" is just boring, and laughable.

      I look back on my cult years, when I thought I was so totally happy & fulfilled, and couldn't imagine life without it....ohmigod, what a difference, I was *so* wrong, it's been over 10 years now so I rarely think about it, but real life without anything "eck" is just wonderful!

      Gotta run!! Hope everyone else is enjoying summer, except I can't deal with temps much over 75, TG for a/c!!!!

      Hugs,

      me
    • jonathanjohns96
      Hey everybody, I made three posts a few days ago, but I just deleted them because I felt that I really didn t say anything that important. I m making this post
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 6, 2010
        Hey everybody,

        I made three posts a few days ago, but I just deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether the moderator deleted them.

        Jonathan
      • Sharon
        ... Good grief, Jonathan !! Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that important after you ve woken up & been out for awhile!! But there was a time
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 7, 2010
          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey everybody,
          >
          > I made three posts a few days ago, but I just deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether the moderator deleted them.
          >
          > Jonathan
          >


          Good grief, "Jonathan"!!

          Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that important after you've woken up & been out for awhile!! <gg> But there was a time when it was "life itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.

          I just felt so sorry for that little girl. What the heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was into black magic or something? I wonder exactly what she saw in the internet? I was thinking maybe she saw the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist posted a bunch of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch Project quite awhile ago.

          Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt when I first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and confusion. I certainly hope she's not nasty & totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually ends up as a "high initiate" eckthug. <gg>

          Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I didn't delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted posts. Do you mind if I reply to them and re-post them? You know, usually people want posts deleted because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things - for example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't believe I forgot it! Over the years a few people have asked me to delete their posts, but it can get complicated because their posts are repeated in replies, so at some point I was very happy to learn that people can delete their own posts, and that's what I told people to do. If they want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact whoever had responded to them. I just didn't have the time & motivation, especially since altho I could understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the whole, some good stuff would be lost.

          Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he "joined" ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I did. When I looked at some of the things aimed at young people, a lot of it made me very uncomfortable. Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years but I remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but these discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making Klemp a bigger & better Santa!!

          So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts get reposted!

          And please, everyone, don't think that just because there's no response, your posts aren't important. I'm sure many people here are like me, they like whatever's posted and benefit from everyone's posts, but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.

          Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just very happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort zone, I prefer fresh air to a/c! It's funny, different people have different comfort zones, I thought last night was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor was freezing & turned on her heat!!

          Have a good one, everyone!

          Hugs,

          Sharon
        • jonathanjohns96
          Sharon, You have my permission to repost them. In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are not familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 9, 2010
            Sharon,

            You have my permission to repost them.

            In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are not familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that people must be 18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody younger than that who is a member of Eckankar is a member because they are part of their parent's family membership in Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am wrong.

            Jonathan


            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hey everybody,
            > >
            > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I just deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether the moderator deleted them.
            > >
            > > Jonathan
            > >
            >
            >
            > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
            >
            > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that important after you've woken up & been out for awhile!! <gg> But there was a time when it was "life itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
            >
            > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. What the heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was into black magic or something? I wonder exactly what she saw in the internet? I was thinking maybe she saw the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist posted a bunch of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch Project quite awhile ago.
            >
            > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt when I first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and confusion. I certainly hope she's not nasty & totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually ends up as a "high initiate" eckthug. <gg>
            >
            > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I didn't delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted posts. Do you mind if I reply to them and re-post them? You know, usually people want posts deleted because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things - for example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't believe I forgot it! Over the years a few people have asked me to delete their posts, but it can get complicated because their posts are repeated in replies, so at some point I was very happy to learn that people can delete their own posts, and that's what I told people to do. If they want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact whoever had responded to them. I just didn't have the time & motivation, especially since altho I could understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the whole, some good stuff would be lost.
            >
            > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he "joined" ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I did. When I looked at some of the things aimed at young people, a lot of it made me very uncomfortable. Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years but I remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but these discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making Klemp a bigger & better Santa!!
            >
            > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts get reposted!
            >
            > And please, everyone, don't think that just because there's no response, your posts aren't important. I'm sure many people here are like me, they like whatever's posted and benefit from everyone's posts, but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.
            >
            > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just very happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort zone, I prefer fresh air to a/c! It's funny, different people have different comfort zones, I thought last night was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor was freezing & turned on her heat!!
            >
            > Have a good one, everyone!
            >
            > Hugs,
            >
            > Sharon
            >
          • tomleafeater
            I ll try posting again. I haven t used this email address in a while, but I tried to unbounce the account. I ve been busy moving 2000 miles to a new home the
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 15, 2010
              I'll try posting again. I haven't used this email address in a while, but I tried to "unbounce" the account.



              I've been busy moving 2000 miles to a new home the last several weeks, just recently getting internet service again, and just now jumped in to see what is going on here, and this caught my eye.

              Do the eckankar rulz say you have to be 18 to join eckankar? I'd forgotten that. But identification isn't required, so anyone can join regardless of age, if they choose, it would seem.

              Back when I joined I was sixteen, and no one objected. Everyone knew my age (people like Patti Simpson, for example, who could have alerted the eck office). Hell, I was going to meetings at age 14. No one cared.

              But way back then there was clearly no rule about age, although now that I think about it and remember, soon after I joined a rule was created about that, but one could join with parents permission, even if the parents weren't members. My kid neighbor across the street was denied permission to join by her parents, after she signed up and paid for a years worth of discourses. There was no refund of her money.

              'Course, she made the "mistake" (as I thought of it at the time) of letting her parents see the discourses, which of course, came in the mail! They were horrified when they read them, since they were catholic. They demanded she never contact eckankar or have anything to do with it again.

              But I joined, and was not asked my age, and once my age was known, nothing at all was said about it. They took my money (lots of it) that I earned mowing lawns and pulling weeds and later working at minimum wage jobs, all while I was under 18.

              I think eckankar can be particularly hard on kids as a cult. But this is something kids won't realize until they are much older and look back at their young years and realize what they may have lost if they spent time, as I did, doing eck stuff and little else. Kids can become stuck in an insular world, shutting out experiences, if their focus gets too involved with "using their last lifetime to spread eckankar" and other illusory, enticing distractions that for me served as an escape.

              What a waste it was for me. Yes, I have some regrets about that part of my life. I won't pretend otherwise just to satisfy those who think I should dismiss it all with a wave of a hand while parroting some sugar coated platitude about how it was "my destiny."

              Due to my young entrance into the dreamy world of eckankar, there were real consequences in my life that affected me in later years. Kids face a big world out there, and they need better preparation to face life than aphorisms like "if you build it they will come," or "the Mahanta will take care of it," or "leave it to the Eck" or "you're right where you're supposed to be."

              Speaking for myself only.

              Leaf


              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Sharon,
              >
              > You have my permission to repost them.
              >
              > In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are not familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that people must be 18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody younger than that who is a member of Eckankar is a member because they are part of their parent's family membership in Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am wrong.
              >
              > Jonathan
              >
              >
              > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hey everybody,
              > > >
              > > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I just deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether the moderator deleted them.
              > > >
              > > > Jonathan
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
              > >
              > > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that important after you've woken up & been out for awhile!! <gg> But there was a time when it was "life itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
              > >
              > > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. What the heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was into black magic or something? I wonder exactly what she saw in the internet? I was thinking maybe she saw the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist posted a bunch of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch Project quite awhile ago.
              > >
              > > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt when I first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and confusion. I certainly hope she's not nasty & totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually ends up as a "high initiate" eckthug. <gg>
              > >
              > > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I didn't delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted posts. Do you mind if I reply to them and re-post them? You know, usually people want posts deleted because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things - for example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't believe I forgot it! Over the years a few people have asked me to delete their posts, but it can get complicated because their posts are repeated in replies, so at some point I was very happy to learn that people can delete their own posts, and that's what I told people to do. If they want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact whoever had responded to them. I just didn't have the time & motivation, especially since altho I could understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the whole, some good stuff would be lost.
              > >
              > > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he "joined" ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I did. When I looked at some of the things aimed at young people, a lot of it made me very uncomfortable. Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years but I remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but these discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making Klemp a bigger & better Santa!!
              > >
              > > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts get reposted!
              > >
              > > And please, everyone, don't think that just because there's no response, your posts aren't important. I'm sure many people here are like me, they like whatever's posted and benefit from everyone's posts, but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.
              > >
              > > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just very happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort zone, I prefer fresh air to a/c! It's funny, different people have different comfort zones, I thought last night was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor was freezing & turned on her heat!!
              > >
              > > Have a good one, everyone!
              > >
              > > Hugs,
              > >
              > > Sharon
              > >
              >
            • tomleafeater
              In a small correction to this general discussion, I think the eckankar policy is minors can join, but require permission from parents. This based on the honor
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 16, 2010
                In a small correction to this general discussion, I think the eckankar policy is minors can join, but require permission from parents. This based on the honor system, of course. People can misrepresent their age. But they can't get the second initiation until they are eighteen. Initiators can ask for I.D. if age is in doubt. But otherwise, no I.D. is required for membership.

                I wanted to clear that up in case it was not clear.



                In other words, you don't have to be 18 to become a member.

                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'll try posting again. I haven't used this email address in a while, but I tried to "unbounce" the account.
                >
                >
                >
                > I've been busy moving 2000 miles to a new home the last several weeks, just recently getting internet service again, and just now jumped in to see what is going on here, and this caught my eye.
                >
                > Do the eckankar rulz say you have to be 18 to join eckankar? I'd forgotten that. But identification isn't required, so anyone can join regardless of age, if they choose, it would seem.
                >
                > Back when I joined I was sixteen, and no one objected. Everyone knew my age (people like Patti Simpson, for example, who could have alerted the eck office). Hell, I was going to meetings at age 14. No one cared.
                >
                > But way back then there was clearly no rule about age, although now that I think about it and remember, soon after I joined a rule was created about that, but one could join with parents permission, even if the parents weren't members. My kid neighbor across the street was denied permission to join by her parents, after she signed up and paid for a years worth of discourses. There was no refund of her money.
                >
                > 'Course, she made the "mistake" (as I thought of it at the time) of letting her parents see the discourses, which of course, came in the mail! They were horrified when they read them, since they were catholic. They demanded she never contact eckankar or have anything to do with it again.
                >
                > But I joined, and was not asked my age, and once my age was known, nothing at all was said about it. They took my money (lots of it) that I earned mowing lawns and pulling weeds and later working at minimum wage jobs, all while I was under 18.
                >
                > I think eckankar can be particularly hard on kids as a cult. But this is something kids won't realize until they are much older and look back at their young years and realize what they may have lost if they spent time, as I did, doing eck stuff and little else. Kids can become stuck in an insular world, shutting out experiences, if their focus gets too involved with "using their last lifetime to spread eckankar" and other illusory, enticing distractions that for me served as an escape.
                >
                > What a waste it was for me. Yes, I have some regrets about that part of my life. I won't pretend otherwise just to satisfy those who think I should dismiss it all with a wave of a hand while parroting some sugar coated platitude about how it was "my destiny."
                >
                > Due to my young entrance into the dreamy world of eckankar, there were real consequences in my life that affected me in later years. Kids face a big world out there, and they need better preparation to face life than aphorisms like "if you build it they will come," or "the Mahanta will take care of it," or "leave it to the Eck" or "you're right where you're supposed to be."
                >
                > Speaking for myself only.
                >
                > Leaf
                >
                >
                > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Sharon,
                > >
                > > You have my permission to repost them.
                > >
                > > In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are not familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that people must be 18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody younger than that who is a member of Eckankar is a member because they are part of their parent's family membership in Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am wrong.
                > >
                > > Jonathan
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hey everybody,
                > > > >
                > > > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I just deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether the moderator deleted them.
                > > > >
                > > > > Jonathan
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
                > > >
                > > > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that important after you've woken up & been out for awhile!! <gg> But there was a time when it was "life itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
                > > >
                > > > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. What the heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was into black magic or something? I wonder exactly what she saw in the internet? I was thinking maybe she saw the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist posted a bunch of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch Project quite awhile ago.
                > > >
                > > > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt when I first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and confusion. I certainly hope she's not nasty & totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually ends up as a "high initiate" eckthug. <gg>
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I didn't delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted posts. Do you mind if I reply to them and re-post them? You know, usually people want posts deleted because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things - for example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't believe I forgot it! Over the years a few people have asked me to delete their posts, but it can get complicated because their posts are repeated in replies, so at some point I was very happy to learn that people can delete their own posts, and that's what I told people to do. If they want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact whoever had responded to them. I just didn't have the time & motivation, especially since altho I could understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the whole, some good stuff would be lost.
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he "joined" ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I did. When I looked at some of the things aimed at young people, a lot of it made me very uncomfortable. Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years but I remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but these discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making Klemp a bigger & better Santa!!
                > > >
                > > > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts get reposted!
                > > >
                > > > And please, everyone, don't think that just because there's no response, your posts aren't important. I'm sure many people here are like me, they like whatever's posted and benefit from everyone's posts, but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.
                > > >
                > > > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just very happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort zone, I prefer fresh air to a/c! It's funny, different people have different comfort zones, I thought last night was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor was freezing & turned on her heat!!
                > > >
                > > > Have a good one, everyone!
                > > >
                > > > Hugs,
                > > >
                > > > Sharon
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • etznab@aol.com
                What about families taking initiations together? Aren t children getting initiated with the parents? I never was clear on how this works, except I ve heard
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 17, 2010
                  What about families taking initiations together?
                  Aren't children getting initiated with the parents?
                  I never was clear on how this works, except I've
                  heard about whole families getting initiations.

                  So, do the children stay 1st initiates until they
                  are 18 and request the 2nd? OK. That makes
                  some sense I guess.

                  What about family members who are over 18
                  when a family member gets an initiation? Like,
                  What about an Eck Member's spouse (even if
                  the spouse isn't a member)? Does the spouse
                  get the same level of initiation as their other
                  half? I never quite understood this. Maybe it
                  was different back in Paul's day.

                  Etznab

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: tomleafeater <tianyue@...>
                  To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, Jun 16, 2010 11:54 am
                  Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Young eckists

                   
                  In a small correction to this general discussion, I think the eckankar
                  policy is minors can join, but require permission from parents. This
                  based on the honor system, of course. People can misrepresent their
                  age. But they can't get the second initiation until they are eighteen.
                  Initiators can ask for I.D. if age is in doubt. But otherwise, no I.D.
                  is required for membership.

                  I wanted to clear that up in case it was not clear.

                  In other words, you don't have to be 18 to become a member.

                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
                  <tianyue@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'll try posting again. I haven't used this email address in a
                  while, but I tried to "unbounce" the account.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I've been busy moving 2000 miles to a new home the last several
                  weeks, just recently getting internet service again, and just now
                  jumped in to see what is going on here, and this caught my eye.
                  >
                  > Do the eckankar rulz say you have to be 18 to join eckankar? I'd
                  forgotten that. But identification isn't required, so anyone can join
                  regardless of age, if they choose, it would seem.
                  >
                  > Back when I joined I was sixteen, and no one objected. Everyone
                  knew my age (people like Patti Simpson, for example, who could have
                  alerted the eck office). Hell, I was going to meetings at age 14. No
                  one cared.
                  >
                  > But way back then there was clearly no rule about age, although
                  now that I think about it and remember, soon after I joined a rule was
                  created about that, but one could join with parents permission, even if
                  the parents weren't members. My kid neighbor across the street was
                  denied permission to join by her parents, after she signed up and paid
                  for a years worth of discourses. There was no refund of her money.
                  >
                  > 'Course, she made the "mistake" (as I thought of it at the time)
                  of letting her parents see the discourses, which of course, came in the
                  mail! They were horrified when they read them, since they were
                  catholic. They demanded she never contact eckankar or have anything to
                  do with it again.
                  >
                  > But I joined, and was not asked my age, and once my age was known,
                  nothing at all was said about it. They took my money (lots of it) that
                  I earned mowing lawns and pulling weeds and later working at minimum
                  wage jobs, all while I was under 18.
                  >
                  > I think eckankar can be particularly hard on kids as a cult. But
                  this is something kids won't realize until they are much older and look
                  back at their young years and realize what they may have lost if they
                  spent time, as I did, doing eck stuff and little else. Kids can become
                  stuck in an insular world, shutting out experiences, if their focus
                  gets too involved with "using their last lifetime to spread eckankar"
                  and other illusory, enticing distractions that for me served as an
                  escape.
                  >
                  > What a waste it was for me. Yes, I have some regrets about that
                  part of my life. I won't pretend otherwise just to satisfy those who
                  think I should dismiss it all with a wave of a hand while parroting
                  some sugar coated platitude about how it was "my destiny."
                  >
                  > Due to my young entrance into the dreamy world of eckankar, there
                  were real consequences in my life that affected me in later years. Kids
                  face a big world out there, and they need better preparation to face
                  life than aphorisms like "if you build it they will come," or "the
                  Mahanta will take care of it," or "leave it to the Eck" or "you're
                  right where you're supposed to be."
                  >
                  > Speaking for myself only.
                  >
                  > Leaf
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96
                  <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Sharon,
                  > >
                  > > You have my permission to repost them.
                  > >
                  > > In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are not
                  familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that people must be
                  18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody younger than that who is a
                  member of Eckankar is a member because they are part of their parent's
                  family membership in Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am
                  wrong.
                  > >
                  > > Jonathan
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"
                  <brighttigress@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96
                  <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hey everybody,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I just
                  deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that
                  important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether the
                  moderator deleted them.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Jonathan
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
                  > > >
                  > > > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that important
                  after you've woken up & been out for awhile!! <gg> But there was
                  a time when it was "life itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
                  > > >
                  > > > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. What the
                  heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was into black magic or
                  something? I wonder exactly what she saw in the internet? I was
                  thinking maybe she saw the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist
                  posted a bunch of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch
                  Project quite awhile ago.
                  > > >
                  > > > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt when I
                  first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and confusion. I certainly
                  hope she's not nasty & totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually
                  ends up as a "high initiate" eckthug. <gg>
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I didn't
                  delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted posts. Do you mind if
                  I reply to them and re-post them? You know, usually people want posts
                  deleted because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things - for
                  example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't believe I
                  forgot it! Over the years a few people have asked me to delete their
                  posts, but it can get complicated because their posts are repeated in
                  replies, so at some point I was very happy to learn that people can
                  delete their own posts, and that's what I told people to do. If they
                  want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact whoever had responded
                  to them. I just didn't have the time & motivation, especially since
                  altho I could understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the
                  whole, some good stuff would be lost.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he "joined"
                  ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I did. When I looked at
                  some of the things aimed at young people, a lot of it made me very
                  uncomfortable. Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years
                  but I remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an
                  example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but these
                  discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making Klemp a bigger &
                  better Santa!!
                  > > >
                  > > > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts get
                  reposted!
                  > > >
                  > > > And please, everyone, don't think that just because
                  there's no response, your posts aren't important. I'm sure many people
                  here are like me, they like whatever's posted and benefit from
                  everyone's posts, but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.
                  > > >
                  > > > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just very
                  happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort zone, I prefer fresh
                  air to a/c! It's funny, different people have different comfort zones,
                  I thought last night was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor
                  was freezing & turned on her heat!!
                  > > >
                  > > > Have a good one, everyone!
                  > > >
                  > > > Hugs,
                  > > >
                  > > > Sharon
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • tomleafeater
                  Yes, Etznab, I agree it s confusing. When things don t make any real sense to begin with, it s not surprising that they become confusing to understand. Such is
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 18, 2010
                    Yes, Etznab, I agree it's confusing. When things don't make any real sense to begin with, it's not surprising that they become confusing to understand. Such is the case with the eckankar initiations.

                    Back in Paul Twitchell's day the initiations generally were given out once per year (that's right, you'd get your fifth in five years). But if you married a person in eckankar, you'd acquire whatever level of initiation your spouse had. So if your spouse was a fifth, you became, automatically, a fifth. Same with your kids, or anyone in your family living under the same roof. The whole family would receive the initiation together. Age had nothing at all to do with it.

                    Darwin began to "slow down" the awards of initiations, so intervals became two years, then three, then later with Harold four years and five years between initiations became the norm.

                    Also under Harold, as I recall anyway (it's been a few years, so anyone feel free to jump in to correct me), the whole family ceased to get initiations together as a norm. And kids had to wait until they were eighteen to get more than the first. Harold spoke about the problem of kids with fifth initiations walking around in the eck community with all that status but without any life experience, so he changed the policy.

                    Now, if any of this doesn't make a person raise an eyebrow in skepticism, I'm not sure what to say at this point. If the initiations are given when "soul is ready," then why would the policy keep changing? Or to put it another way, how can "policy" determine when a person should get an initiation, since initiations are supposedly something that "eck" will provide when one is ready?

                    And how could a spouse be ready for the fifth, just because s/he married a person with that initiation? Couldn't that cause some problems?

                    It's all just clearly nutty. And what makes me shake my head is we all bought into these crazy policies. What sort of kool-aid were we drinking?


                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > What about families taking initiations together?
                    > Aren't children getting initiated with the parents?
                    > I never was clear on how this works, except I've
                    > heard about whole families getting initiations.
                    >
                    > So, do the children stay 1st initiates until they
                    > are 18 and request the 2nd? OK. That makes
                    > some sense I guess.
                    >
                    > What about family members who are over 18
                    > when a family member gets an initiation? Like,
                    > What about an Eck Member's spouse (even if
                    > the spouse isn't a member)? Does the spouse
                    > get the same level of initiation as their other
                    > half? I never quite understood this. Maybe it
                    > was different back in Paul's day.
                    >
                    > Etznab
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: tomleafeater <tianyue@...>
                    > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wed, Jun 16, 2010 11:54 am
                    > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Young eckists
                    >
                    >  
                    > In a small correction to this general discussion, I think the eckankar
                    > policy is minors can join, but require permission from parents. This
                    > based on the honor system, of course. People can misrepresent their
                    > age. But they can't get the second initiation until they are eighteen.
                    > Initiators can ask for I.D. if age is in doubt. But otherwise, no I.D.
                    > is required for membership.
                    >
                    > I wanted to clear that up in case it was not clear.
                    >
                    > In other words, you don't have to be 18 to become a member.
                    >
                    > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
                    > tianyue@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I'll try posting again. I haven't used this email address in a
                    > while, but I tried to "unbounce" the account.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I've been busy moving 2000 miles to a new home the last several
                    > weeks, just recently getting internet service again, and just now
                    > jumped in to see what is going on here, and this caught my eye.
                    > >
                    > > Do the eckankar rulz say you have to be 18 to join eckankar? I'd
                    > forgotten that. But identification isn't required, so anyone can join
                    > regardless of age, if they choose, it would seem.
                    > >
                    > > Back when I joined I was sixteen, and no one objected. Everyone
                    > knew my age (people like Patti Simpson, for example, who could have
                    > alerted the eck office). Hell, I was going to meetings at age 14. No
                    > one cared.
                    > >
                    > > But way back then there was clearly no rule about age, although
                    > now that I think about it and remember, soon after I joined a rule was
                    > created about that, but one could join with parents permission, even if
                    > the parents weren't members. My kid neighbor across the street was
                    > denied permission to join by her parents, after she signed up and paid
                    > for a years worth of discourses. There was no refund of her money.
                    > >
                    > > 'Course, she made the "mistake" (as I thought of it at the time)
                    > of letting her parents see the discourses, which of course, came in the
                    > mail! They were horrified when they read them, since they were
                    > catholic. They demanded she never contact eckankar or have anything to
                    > do with it again.
                    > >
                    > > But I joined, and was not asked my age, and once my age was known,
                    > nothing at all was said about it. They took my money (lots of it) that
                    > I earned mowing lawns and pulling weeds and later working at minimum
                    > wage jobs, all while I was under 18.
                    > >
                    > > I think eckankar can be particularly hard on kids as a cult. But
                    > this is something kids won't realize until they are much older and look
                    > back at their young years and realize what they may have lost if they
                    > spent time, as I did, doing eck stuff and little else. Kids can become
                    > stuck in an insular world, shutting out experiences, if their focus
                    > gets too involved with "using their last lifetime to spread eckankar"
                    > and other illusory, enticing distractions that for me served as an
                    > escape.
                    > >
                    > > What a waste it was for me. Yes, I have some regrets about that
                    > part of my life. I won't pretend otherwise just to satisfy those who
                    > think I should dismiss it all with a wave of a hand while parroting
                    > some sugar coated platitude about how it was "my destiny."
                    > >
                    > > Due to my young entrance into the dreamy world of eckankar, there
                    > were real consequences in my life that affected me in later years. Kids
                    > face a big world out there, and they need better preparation to face
                    > life than aphorisms like "if you build it they will come," or "the
                    > Mahanta will take care of it," or "leave it to the Eck" or "you're
                    > right where you're supposed to be."
                    > >
                    > > Speaking for myself only.
                    > >
                    > > Leaf
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96
                    > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Sharon,
                    > > >
                    > > > You have my permission to repost them.
                    > > >
                    > > > In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are not
                    > familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that people must be
                    > 18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody younger than that who is a
                    > member of Eckankar is a member because they are part of their parent's
                    > family membership in Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am
                    > wrong.
                    > > >
                    > > > Jonathan
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"
                    > <brighttigress@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96
                    > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hey everybody,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I just
                    > deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that
                    > important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether the
                    > moderator deleted them.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Jonathan
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that important
                    > after you've woken up & been out for awhile!! <gg> But there was
                    > a time when it was "life itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. What the
                    > heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was into black magic or
                    > something? I wonder exactly what she saw in the internet? I was
                    > thinking maybe she saw the Delphi website, because some wacko eckist
                    > posted a bunch of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch
                    > Project quite awhile ago.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt when I
                    > first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and confusion. I certainly
                    > hope she's not nasty & totally brainwashed, that kind of person usually
                    > ends up as a "high initiate" eckthug. <gg>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I didn't
                    > delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted posts. Do you mind if
                    > I reply to them and re-post them? You know, usually people want posts
                    > deleted because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things - for
                    > example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't believe I
                    > forgot it! Over the years a few people have asked me to delete their
                    > posts, but it can get complicated because their posts are repeated in
                    > replies, so at some point I was very happy to learn that people can
                    > delete their own posts, and that's what I told people to do. If they
                    > want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact whoever had responded
                    > to them. I just didn't have the time & motivation, especially since
                    > altho I could understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on the
                    > whole, some good stuff would be lost.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he "joined"
                    > ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I did. When I looked at
                    > some of the things aimed at young people, a lot of it made me very
                    > uncomfortable. Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been years
                    > but I remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an
                    > example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but these
                    > discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making Klemp a bigger &
                    > better Santa!!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts get
                    > reposted!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > And please, everyone, don't think that just because
                    > there's no response, your posts aren't important. I'm sure many people
                    > here are like me, they like whatever's posted and benefit from
                    > everyone's posts, but we're just too busy doing other stuff to comment.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just very
                    > happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort zone, I prefer fresh
                    > air to a/c! It's funny, different people have different comfort zones,
                    > I thought last night was *perfect* with my windows open, but a neighbor
                    > was freezing & turned on her heat!!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Have a good one, everyone!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hugs,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Sharon
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • etznab@aol.com
                    Thanks for sharing the Initiations trivia. Good clarification. BTW, 10 years (or more) between in- itiations is not uncommon nowadays, IMO. For initiations
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 20, 2010
                      Thanks for sharing the Initiations trivia.
                      Good clarification.

                      BTW, 10 years (or more) between in-
                      itiations is not uncommon nowadays,
                      IMO. For initiations beyond the fourth.

                      Etznab

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: tomleafeater <tianyue@...>
                      To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, Jun 18, 2010 9:28 pm
                      Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Young eckists

                       


                      Yes, Etznab, I agree it's confusing. When things don't make any real
                      sense to begin with, it's not surprising that they become confusing to
                      understand. Such is the case with the eckankar initiations.

                      Back in Paul Twitchell's day the initiations generally were given out
                      once per year (that's right, you'd get your fifth in five years). But
                      if you married a person in eckankar, you'd acquire whatever level of
                      initiation your spouse had. So if your spouse was a fifth, you became,
                      automatically, a fifth. Same with your kids, or anyone in your family
                      living under the same roof. The whole family would receive the
                      initiation together. Age had nothing at all to do with it.

                      Darwin began to "slow down" the awards of initiations, so intervals
                      became two years, then three, then later with Harold four years and
                      five years between initiations became the norm.

                      Also under Harold, as I recall anyway (it's been a few years, so anyone
                      feel free to jump in to correct me), the whole family ceased to get
                      initiations together as a norm. And kids had to wait until they were
                      eighteen to get more than the first. Harold spoke about the problem of
                      kids with fifth initiations walking around in the eck community with
                      all that status but without any life experience, so he changed the
                      policy.

                      Now, if any of this doesn't make a person raise an eyebrow in
                      skepticism, I'm not sure what to say at this point. If the initiations
                      are given when "soul is ready," then why would the policy keep
                      changing? Or to put it another way, how can "policy" determine when a
                      person should get an initiation, since initiations are supposedly
                      something that "eck" will provide when one is ready?

                      And how could a spouse be ready for the fifth, just because s/he
                      married a person with that initiation? Couldn't that cause some
                      problems?

                      It's all just clearly nutty. And what makes me shake my head is we all
                      bought into these crazy policies. What sort of kool-aid were we
                      drinking?

                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > What about families taking initiations together?
                      > Aren't children getting initiated with the parents?
                      > I never was clear on how this works, except I've
                      > heard about whole families getting initiations.
                      >
                      > So, do the children stay 1st initiates until they
                      > are 18 and request the 2nd? OK. That makes
                      > some sense I guess.
                      >
                      > What about family members who are over 18
                      > when a family member gets an initiation? Like,
                      > What about an Eck Member's spouse (even if
                      > the spouse isn't a member)? Does the spouse
                      > get the same level of initiation as their other
                      > half? I never quite understood this. Maybe it
                      > was different back in Paul's day.
                      >
                      > Etznab
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: tomleafeater <tianyue@...>
                      > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wed, Jun 16, 2010 11:54 am
                      > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Young eckists
                      >
                      >  
                      > In a small correction to this general discussion, I think the
                      eckankar
                      > policy is minors can join, but require permission from parents.
                      This
                      > based on the honor system, of course. People can misrepresent
                      their
                      > age. But they can't get the second initiation until they are
                      eighteen.
                      > Initiators can ask for I.D. if age is in doubt. But otherwise, no
                      I.D.
                      > is required for membership.
                      >
                      > I wanted to clear that up in case it was not clear.
                      >
                      > In other words, you don't have to be 18 to become a member.
                      >
                      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
                      > tianyue@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I'll try posting again. I haven't used this email address in
                      a
                      > while, but I tried to "unbounce" the account.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I've been busy moving 2000 miles to a new home the last
                      several
                      > weeks, just recently getting internet service again, and just now
                      > jumped in to see what is going on here, and this caught my eye.
                      > >
                      > > Do the eckankar rulz say you have to be 18 to join eckankar?
                      I'd
                      > forgotten that. But identification isn't required, so anyone can
                      join
                      > regardless of age, if they choose, it would seem.
                      > >
                      > > Back when I joined I was sixteen, and no one objected.
                      Everyone
                      > knew my age (people like Patti Simpson, for example, who could
                      have
                      > alerted the eck office). Hell, I was going to meetings at age 14.
                      No
                      > one cared.
                      > >
                      > > But way back then there was clearly no rule about age,
                      although
                      > now that I think about it and remember, soon after I joined a rule
                      was
                      > created about that, but one could join with parents permission,
                      even if
                      > the parents weren't members. My kid neighbor across the street was
                      > denied permission to join by her parents, after she signed up and
                      paid
                      > for a years worth of discourses. There was no refund of her money.
                      > >
                      > > 'Course, she made the "mistake" (as I thought of it at the
                      time)
                      > of letting her parents see the discourses, which of course, came
                      in the
                      > mail! They were horrified when they read them, since they were
                      > catholic. They demanded she never contact eckankar or have
                      anything to
                      > do with it again.
                      > >
                      > > But I joined, and was not asked my age, and once my age was
                      known,
                      > nothing at all was said about it. They took my money (lots of it)
                      that
                      > I earned mowing lawns and pulling weeds and later working at
                      minimum
                      > wage jobs, all while I was under 18.
                      > >
                      > > I think eckankar can be particularly hard on kids as a cult.
                      But
                      > this is something kids won't realize until they are much older and
                      look
                      > back at their young years and realize what they may have lost if
                      they
                      > spent time, as I did, doing eck stuff and little else. Kids can
                      become
                      > stuck in an insular world, shutting out experiences, if their
                      focus
                      > gets too involved with "using their last lifetime to spread
                      eckankar"
                      > and other illusory, enticing distractions that for me served as an
                      > escape.
                      > >
                      > > What a waste it was for me. Yes, I have some regrets about
                      that
                      > part of my life. I won't pretend otherwise just to satisfy those
                      who
                      > think I should dismiss it all with a wave of a hand while
                      parroting
                      > some sugar coated platitude about how it was "my destiny."
                      > >
                      > > Due to my young entrance into the dreamy world of eckankar,
                      there
                      > were real consequences in my life that affected me in later years.
                      Kids
                      > face a big world out there, and they need better preparation to
                      face
                      > life than aphorisms like "if you build it they will come," or "the
                      > Mahanta will take care of it," or "leave it to the Eck" or "you're
                      > right where you're supposed to be."
                      > >
                      > > Speaking for myself only.
                      > >
                      > > Leaf
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96
                      > <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Sharon,
                      > > >
                      > > > You have my permission to repost them.
                      > > >
                      > > > In your discussion, for the benefit of people who are
                      not
                      > familiar with Eckankar, you might want to mention that people must
                      be
                      > 18 years old to join Eckankar. So anybody younger than that who is
                      a
                      > member of Eckankar is a member because they are part of their
                      parent's
                      > family membership in Eckanakar. You can correct me on this if I am
                      > wrong.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jonathan
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"
                      > <brighttigress@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com,
                      jonathanjohns96
                      > <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hey everybody,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I made three posts a few days ago, but I just
                      > deleted them because I felt that I really didn't say anything that
                      > important. I'm making this post so that you don't wonder whether
                      the
                      > moderator deleted them.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Jonathan
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Good grief, "Jonathan"!!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hey, *nothing* connected with ekult is that
                      important
                      > after you've woken up & been out for awhile!! <gg> But
                      there was
                      > a time when it was "life itself" to me, just like that 13-year-old.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I just felt so sorry for that little girl. What
                      the
                      > heck was she thinking, to automatically think I was into black
                      magic or
                      > something? I wonder exactly what she saw in the internet? I was
                      > thinking maybe she saw the Delphi website, because some wacko
                      eckist
                      > posted a bunch of wacko stuff about witchcraft & the Blair Witch
                      > Project quite awhile ago.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Maybe what she was really feeling was what I felt
                      when I
                      > first saw some anti-eck websites - hurt and confusion. I
                      certainly
                      > hope she's not nasty & totally brainwashed, that kind of person
                      usually
                      > ends up as a "high initiate" eckthug. <gg>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Anyway, I was going to add to the discussion so I
                      didn't
                      > delete the "digest" with your three now-deleted posts. Do you
                      mind if
                      > I reply to them and re-post them? You know, usually people want
                      posts
                      > deleted because they'd accidentally posted some "personal" things
                      - for
                      > example, you posted somewhere with your real name, can't believe I
                      > forgot it! Over the years a few people have asked me to delete
                      their
                      > posts, but it can get complicated because their posts are repeated
                      in
                      > replies, so at some point I was very happy to learn that people
                      can
                      > delete their own posts, and that's what I told people to do. If
                      they
                      > want their reposts deleted they'd have to contact whoever had
                      responded
                      > to them. I just didn't have the time & motivation, especially
                      since
                      > altho I could understand why they wanted to delete, I felt that on
                      the
                      > whole, some good stuff would be lost.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Anyway, my son was just a little guy when he
                      "joined"
                      > ekult with me, and got his 2nd initiation when I did. When I
                      looked at
                      > some of the things aimed at young people, a lot of it made me very
                      > uncomfortable. Like, one of the "teenie" discourses, it's been
                      years
                      > but I remembered thinking geezus, eckankar uses Santa Claus as an
                      > example of a horrible lie parents tell to their kids, but these
                      > discourses seemed to only serve the purpose of making Klemp a
                      bigger &
                      > better Santa!!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > So, let me know if you mind if your deleted posts
                      get
                      > reposted!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > And please, everyone, don't think that just because
                      > there's no response, your posts aren't important. I'm sure many
                      people
                      > here are like me, they like whatever's posted and benefit from
                      > everyone's posts, but we're just too busy doing other stuff to
                      comment.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Like, right now is gardening season, and I'm just
                      very
                      > happy that the temp & humidity is in my comfort zone, I prefer
                      fresh
                      > air to a/c! It's funny, different people have different comfort
                      zones,
                      > I thought last night was *perfect* with my windows open, but a
                      neighbor
                      > was freezing & turned on her heat!!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Have a good one, everyone!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hugs,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Sharon
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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