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Re: A question for Colleen

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Colleen, Thanks for your answer. I agree with everything you say, although I might not emphasize every word exactly the same. I was in Eckankar from 1979 to
    Message 1 of 32 , Mar 28, 2010
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      Colleen,

      Thanks for your answer. I agree with everything you say, although I might not emphasize every word exactly the same.

      I was in Eckankar from 1979 to 2008. I really didn't start dealing with my anger until 1999-2009 after having a bunch of inner experiences that encouraged me to do that. If it wasn't for my inner experiences I would have never done it.

      On the surface of things, Eckankar teaches people not to suppress/repress their anger, but in a practical sense they encourage you to do the exact opposite!. I remember one Eckist's story about a waking dream they had that, according to them, told them "Don't get angry." I saw things completely differently. I thought they should take a look at their anger and figure out what it was about. Then deal with it! Figure out a way to heal it! It was just one more thing which told me that I was totally out of touch with how Eckankar did things.

      In looking back at things, the reason why I felt compelled to make this post about anger was because I was stuck in a rut of being angry all the time, and I needed to just get away from all-things-Eckankar, including the anti-Eckankar message boards on Yahoo. Being stuck in this rut of "angry all the time" was actually becoming very counterproductive to my eventual healing of this stuff.

      Jonathan

      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen Russell, LMFT" <colleenmft@...> wrote:
      >
      > Anger is a "normal" reaction to manipulation, deception, betrayal, "spiritual rape". When I was involved in Eckankar, anger was considered a "negative" emotion, one that could harm someone all the way around the world, even leading to death of that person, according to Paul Twitchell's statements. A person is made to compartmentalize or "split off" one's anger, to maintain connection with the "LIVING ECK MASTER" as a "true believer", according to my experience. A healthy and, in my opinion, accurate view of anger is that it is a "signal emotion" in that it signals danger and a need to take action. Many of us in Eckankar relinquished this powerful connection to our anger through the process of thought reform. Yes, the anger can motivate a person to leave Eckankar and to pursue healthy, independent goals. Because our emotions and thoughts were divided into "good" and "bad", people who leave groups like Eckankar can have trouble self-regulating emotions and knowing how to identify and express personal needs and concerns. Often people who leave cults have great difficulty with intense anger...it surprises them and they sometimes don't know what to do with it. Sports, activism against cults, writing on groups like like Eckankartruth, acting, working in psychotherapy, music, exercise, pursuing professional goals, are some of the ways people can positively channel their understandable anger.
      >
      > On the other hand, anger can become chronic and lead to emotional and physical problems. Through successful interactions and accomplishments in life outside Eckankar or other such groups, acknowledgement of emerging feelings, and experiencing one's own process of recovery and development, a person can move on from intense, prolonged anger that probably will resurface or be triggered at times, based on one's situation or experience.
      >
      > Colleen
      > Former 7th Initiate/Area Mahdis in the '70s
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, harrisonferrel <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Funny, because a while back I had the same thoughts. However, it appears that it is indeed necessary to bash eckankar and let people vent. People who leave this cult need to be really pissed off, and they have a right to be. As for me, I'm just about through with all the hate for the group, klemp and his ilk. Still, I support those who want to complain and shake their fists in outrage. They need to vent and be validated. The least I can do is be a listener or give them a right to bemoan having been victimized.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > All,
      > > >
      > > > I'm going to go ahead and answer this question from my point of view since I don't know whether you have time to answer it.
      > > >
      > > > I have no intentions of staying angry at Eckankar for the rest of my life. It has nothing to do with whether I like Eckankar or don't like them. It has nothing to do with whether I approve of them or don't approve of them. It is due solely to the fact that it is the best thing for me.
      > > >
      > > > As of about 10 years ago I have not been the type of person to repress emotions or "stuff things" as some people call it. All that does is cause problems later on, either physical health problems or emotional problems.
      > > >
      > > > I don't know of a single therapist who tells divorced people to "Hate your spouse for the rest of your life. It's good for you." Yet I have seen evidence on several of the anti-Eckankar message boards that at least a few participants seem to want to hate Eckankar for the rest of their lives. And furthermore, if other people on the message board don't follow suit, then they accuse these people are somehow supporting Eckankar. I even did this once or twice (from both points of view) until I really started thinking about what I was doing, and what was really going on.
      > > >
      > > > One last point. I suppose that someone could disagree with me and say that these people whom I perceive as angry are really just speaking out against Eckankar for the betterment of mankind, in other words, to prevent someone else from suffering at the hands of Eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > Just about everything that could be said against Eckankar already has been said: David Lane, Ford Johnson, miscellaneous websites, plus many posts on message boards. Secondly, people are going to continue to join Eckankar no matter how much anti-Eckankar stuff is on the Internet. They will join and they will learn their own lessons, good and bad. I have decided for myself that it is not my job to "save them."
      > > >
      > > > So wouldn't this message board be better off if it contained more discussion about healing Eckankar-induced trauma instead of just continually bashing Eckankar.org.?
      > > >
      > > > Jonathan
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Colleen,
      > > > >
      > > > > I have a question. I'm interested in knowing about your philosophy as a person helping people who have left Eckankar.
      > > > >
      > > > > Which of the following most closely represents your understanding of how a former member with Echankar-induced trauma should proceed:
      > > > >
      > > > > 1. Heal, release, and move on.
      > > > > 2. Stay angry at Eckankar forever.
      > > > > 3. Repress all one's feelings and act like "everything is OK."
      > > > >
      > > > > Or, you can write your own answer without mentioning any of the three choices above.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks,
      > > > >
      > > > > Jonathan
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • ctecvie
      Hi Sharon, thanks for the information. Good to know that it s not LeeAnne. I have saved the obscene emails as well but never responded to them of course. :-)
      Message 32 of 32 , Mar 29, 2010
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        Hi Sharon,

        thanks for the information. Good to know that it's not LeeAnne. I have saved the obscene emails as well but never responded to them of course. :-)

        Take care!
        Ingrid

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ingrid -
        >
        > You've been getting nasty personal emails which are "responses" to posts you made at ESA, which were probably older ones?
        >
        > It's not LeeAnne.
        >
        > I think that started last fall or perhaps last summer. Several people started getting nasty & obscene email "responses" to their ESA posts, including me. And there were also some kind of "spoof" emails from the same person, that seemed to come from Yahoo. Anyway, a few others complained to Yahoo about it. I believe Prometheus also posted about this over at ESA. This person was using several pseudos but evidently accidentally used a "personal" email or something - well, the woman who seemed to be doing it said her teenage son was doing it and she knew nothing about it, and she made him email an "apology" to at least one of the "victims". That was pretty funny, because I hadn't posted publicly that I was getting those emails too, so I kept getting them after the apology. I decided to just ignore them & stick them all in a folder in case it ever escalated to the point where I'd feel like sending Yahoo a complaint. Not much they can do about it, it seems.
        >
        > Okay, I don't feel like it but let me pop into my files for the info about the sender. These are the pseudos used previously:
        >
        > "mustafamondou" <mustafamondou@...>
        > gogomansealedlips@...
        > "daniellopart" <daniellopart@...>
        > johnwes2789@...
        > "pashtoonfallafa" <pashtoonfallafa@...>
        >
        > Now, I don't totally believe the teen son was doing it. I think it's more likely that Mom blamed him for it, but who knows? Mom is a physical therapist, "susiemieuxmieux@..."
        >
        > Susan van Weijlen-Yeager (husband Richard Yeager)
        > 47 Ainsworth St
        > Roslindale, MA 02131-1942
        >
        > Evidently my not responding or mentioning the obscene emails worked, I figured they'd get bored & find something else to do. But it seems like they just took me off their list.
        >
        > Is anyone else having problems? It might be a good idea to save offensive emails, with full headers. And be careful about any emails that look like they come from Yahoo or anywhere else, asking you to click on a link. If you move your mouse over the link, the "real" link it's going to will show up. Or, you can right-click and "save" it, then copy it to wordpad or something to see what it is, without risking actually going to it.
        >
        > You'd think people would have better things to do with their time, you know? Obscene personal emails are truly a sign of high spirichul consciousness. <gg>
        >
        > Hugs,
        >
        > Sharon
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi David,
        > >
        > > I know it wasn't you. It was Leeanne Thompson, and it was her I addressed in my post if you look. I always harboured doubts towards her which now were confirmed.
        > >
        > > Best,
        > > Ingrid
        > >
        > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, David Osborn <panfluteman2000@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > It was not me, Ingrid.  All my language has been civil, not abusive.  I swear, as God, the Sugmad, or whatever you wish to call IT, is my Witness, that the f**kenkar was not from me.
        > > >                                               David
        > > >
        > > > --- On Fri, 3/26/10, ctecvie <ctecvie@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > From: ctecvie <ctecvie@>
        > > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: eckankar is fuckenkar
        > > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Friday, March 26, 2010, 5:50 AM
        > > >
        > > > Leeanne ...
        > > >
        > > > Very interesting ... now I know who sent me the offending emails to my posts over on ESA ...
        > > >
        > > > Ingrid
        > > >
        > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Leanne Thompson <le_anne_thompson@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- On Thu, 3/25/10, David Osborn <panfluteman2000@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > From: David Osborn <panfluteman2000@>
        > > > > Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Re: A question for Colleen
        > > > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 7:25 AM
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > That's a good point, Ingrid.
        > > > >      I believe that, after Harold became LEM, many changes were made in Eckankar that I personally did not like, and which I believe Paul Twitchell wouldn't have liked either.  For one thing, Paul didn't want Eckankar to be a nonprofit organization.  And he wasn't for calling Eckankar a religion either.
        > > > >                                                      Many Eckless Blessings,
        > > > >                                                           David
        > > > >
        > > > > --- On Thu, 3/25/10, ctecvie <ctecvie@yahoo. com> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > From: ctecvie <ctecvie@yahoo. com>
        > > > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: A question for Colleen
        > > > > To: eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com
        > > > > Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 1:07 AM
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Colleen,
        > > > >
        > > > > "Colleen
        > > > > > Former 7th Initiate/Area Mahdis in the '70s"
        > > > >
        > > > > I find it interesting that you are still referring to this outdated eckankar "title" ... it's so long ago that you were in eckankar, and the structure you were in during Paul Twitchell's days has been changed eons ago.
        > > > >
        > > > > Ingrid
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "Colleen Russell, LMFT" <colleenmft@ ..> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Anger is a "normal" reaction to manipulation, deception, betrayal, "spiritual rape". When I was involved in Eckankar, anger was considered a "negative" emotion, one that could harm someone all the way around the world, even leading to death of that person, according to Paul Twitchell's statements. A person is made to compartmentalize or "split off" one's anger, to maintain connection with the "LIVING ECK MASTER" as a "true believer", according to my experience.  A healthy and, in my opinion, accurate view of anger is that it is a "signal emotion" in that it signals danger and a need to take action.  Many of us in Eckankar relinquished this powerful connection to our anger through the process of thought reform. Yes, the anger can motivate a person to leave Eckankar and to pursue healthy, independent goals. Because our emotions and thoughts were divided into "good" and "bad", people who leave groups like Eckankar can have trouble self-regulating
        > > > >  emotions and knowing how to identify and express personal needs and concerns.  Often people who leave cults have great difficulty with intense anger...it surprises them and they sometimes don't know what to do with it.  Sports, activism against cults, writing on groups like like Eckankartruth, acting, working in psychotherapy, music, exercise, pursuing professional goals, are some of the ways people can positively channel their understandable anger.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > On the other hand, anger can become chronic and lead to emotional and physical problems.  Through successful interactions and accomplishments in life outside Eckankar or other such groups, acknowledgement of emerging feelings, and experiencing one's own process of recovery and development, a person can move on from intense, prolonged anger that probably will resurface or be triggered at times, based on one's situation or experience.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Colleen
        > > > > > Former 7th Initiate/Area Mahdis in the '70s   
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, harrisonferrel <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Funny, because a while back I had the same thoughts. However, it appears that it is indeed necessary to bash eckankar and let people vent. People who leave this cult need to be really pissed off, and they have a right to be. As for me, I'm just about through with all the hate for the group, klemp and his ilk. Still, I support those who want to complain and shake their fists in outrage. They need to vent and be validated. The least I can do is be a listener or give them a right to bemoan having been victimized.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > All,
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I'm going to go ahead and answer this question from my point of view since I don't know whether you have time to answer it.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I have no intentions of staying angry at Eckankar for the rest of my life. It has nothing to do with whether I like Eckankar or don't like them. It has nothing to do with whether I approve of them or don't approve of them. It is due solely to the fact that it is the best thing for me.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > As of about 10 years ago I have not been the type of person to repress emotions or "stuff things" as some people call it. All that does is cause problems later on, either physical health problems or emotional problems.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I don't know of a single therapist who tells divorced people to "Hate your spouse for the rest of your life. It's good for you." Yet I have seen evidence on several of the anti-Eckankar message boards that at least a few participants seem to want to hate Eckankar for the rest of their lives. And furthermore, if other people on the message board don't follow suit, then they accuse these people are somehow supporting Eckankar. I even did this once or twice (from both points of view) until I really started thinking about what I was doing, and what was really going on.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > One last point. I suppose that someone could disagree with me and say that these people whom I perceive as angry are really just speaking out against Eckankar for the betterment of mankind, in other words, to prevent someone else from suffering at the hands of Eckankar.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Just about everything that could be said against Eckankar already has been said: David Lane, Ford Johnson, miscellaneous websites, plus many posts on message boards. Secondly, people are going to continue to join Eckankar no matter how much anti-Eckankar stuff is on the Internet. They will join and they will learn their own lessons, good and bad. I have decided for myself that it is not my job to "save them."
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > So wouldn't this message board be better off if it contained more discussion about healing Eckankar-induced trauma instead of just continually bashing Eckankar.org. ?
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Jonathan
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, jonathanjohns96 <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Colleen,
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I have a question. I'm interested in knowing about your philosophy as a person helping people who have left Eckankar.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Which of the following most closely represents your understanding of how a former member with Echankar-induced trauma should proceed:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > 1. Heal, release, and move on.
        > > > > > > > > 2. Stay angry at Eckankar forever.
        > > > > > > > > 3. Repress all one's feelings and act like "everything is OK."
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Or, you can write your own answer without mentioning any of the three choices above.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Thanks,
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Jonathan
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        > > > >
        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > >
        >
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