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Re: Has there ever been a Native American "drumming" session at a major ECK semi

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, the attempt to do a drumming circle was an innocent act, and it was meant to be fun! And, I ve been at ones where there was NO
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 2, 2009
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      Hello Jonathan and All,
      Yes, the attempt to do a "drumming
      circle" was an innocent act, and it was
      meant to be fun! And, I've been at ones
      where there was NO chanting just drumming!
      I find them interesting in that the drumming
      (sound) starts out as individualized/group
      chaos and then harmonizes into a Unity of
      Consciousness. It's a metaphor... for the
      spiritual life.

      Getting back to the use of fear and
      control tactics of religions and of Eckankar:

      Did Eckankar use metal detectors at the
      2009 EWWS? I always thought that was an
      over-the-top/knee-jerk reaction (a security/
      fear tactic) for Klemp to use after 9/11.

      Why should "God" (the Mahanta) be fearful
      of anything or anyone? Couldn't/wouldn't/
      shouldn't Rebazar and the other EK Masters
      manifest themselves to protect Klemp?
      Shouldn't HK be able to protect himself
      and his chelas on the outer, as well as
      (supposedly), on the inner? HK states
      that his "protection" is with his followers.
      But, where's the proof when H.I.s are dying
      of cancer etc. Actually, this is proof that
      Klemp is a liar. Guilt puts blame on the
      chela/H.I. for the cancer (besides, it's a
      "test" of faith) while Klemp dodges his
      promises and responsibilities.

      However, doubt began to creep into Eckists'
      consciousness when the "metal detectors"
      and "searches" began. This created more
      questioning of Klemp's abilities, and his
      truthfulness (as the LEM/Mahanta) began
      to be doubted even more so.

      When "God" (the Mahanta) is fearful and
      needs metal detectors, searches, and a
      security entourage one has to wonder
      about the validity of this religion.

      Then, of course, we have the aging factor.
      Other EK Masters live forever and appear
      rather youthful while Klemp is pale, old
      looking and wrinkled, grey-haired, and
      balding... like anyone else! I'm surprised
      that Eckists can't believe their own eyes!
      What delusion! How does one rationalize
      all of these facts and contradictions? Are
      people that desperate and needy? Yes!

      Eckankar is just another feel good religion
      with all of the rules and regulations and
      busy work, guilt/fear, and ego traps that
      all religions share. Every religion is unique
      and that's why they attract a certain like-
      minded group of individuals. Yet, all of
      these believers think they are right and
      everyone else is wrong and doomed! Unless,
      of course, the sinner is converted. Therefore,
      their "truth" must be shared with the world
      in order to "save" the non-believer from
      the negative effects of Kal, Satan, God, etc.

      And, in EK, there are "inflow" game points
      (initiations and positions) to be achieved
      while doing "God's" missionary (vahana)
      work to help raise the world's consciousness
      via this"outflow." The imagination is fun
      and useful and necessary, but it can, also,
      be a trap and a means of creating delusion.

      Prometheus



      jonathan wrote:

      Prometheus,

      I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn't trying to defend Eckankar
      when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying to get into their
      head to try to figure out what kooky reason they had for canceling it.
      Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time engaged in that same process through the 29
      years that I was a member

      I agree completely with your statement "Anyway, it just goes to show how
      religions like to control their followers via rules, laws, guidelines, guilt,
      and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone on their
      "track."


      As you stated, you and the other Eckists who were looking forward to the session
      saw it as something innocent, and whatever energy was going to be brought to the
      surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm glad you mentioned that because I
      wasn't even thinking in those terms. Of course you were thinking in those terms!
      You were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes, it does show how fanatical Eckankar
      is when it comes to enforcing the rule "the teachings of Eckankar must be kept
      pure."
    • ctecvie
      Hello Prometheus and all, .... and, frankly, who would be interested in attacking a so-called godman from an unknown religion?? YAWN! :-D And yes, little
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 3, 2009
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        Hello Prometheus and all,

        .... and, frankly, who would be interested in attacking a so-called "godman" from an unknown religion?? YAWN! :-D
        And yes, little Harry is aging, and shaking, and looking much older than any other 67(or so)-year-old! I guess ekkies just don't remove their pink glasses! Not to see means it isn't there! LOL!

        Ingrid
        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Jonathan and All,
        > Yes, the attempt to do a "drumming
        > circle" was an innocent act, and it was
        > meant to be fun! And, I've been at ones
        > where there was NO chanting just drumming!
        > I find them interesting in that the drumming
        > (sound) starts out as individualized/group
        > chaos and then harmonizes into a Unity of
        > Consciousness. It's a metaphor... for the
        > spiritual life.
        >
        > Getting back to the use of fear and
        > control tactics of religions and of Eckankar:
        >
        > Did Eckankar use metal detectors at the
        > 2009 EWWS? I always thought that was an
        > over-the-top/knee-jerk reaction (a security/
        > fear tactic) for Klemp to use after 9/11.
        >
        > Why should "God" (the Mahanta) be fearful
        > of anything or anyone? Couldn't/wouldn't/
        > shouldn't Rebazar and the other EK Masters
        > manifest themselves to protect Klemp?
        > Shouldn't HK be able to protect himself
        > and his chelas on the outer, as well as
        > (supposedly), on the inner? HK states
        > that his "protection" is with his followers.
        > But, where's the proof when H.I.s are dying
        > of cancer etc. Actually, this is proof that
        > Klemp is a liar. Guilt puts blame on the
        > chela/H.I. for the cancer (besides, it's a
        > "test" of faith) while Klemp dodges his
        > promises and responsibilities.
        >
        > However, doubt began to creep into Eckists'
        > consciousness when the "metal detectors"
        > and "searches" began. This created more
        > questioning of Klemp's abilities, and his
        > truthfulness (as the LEM/Mahanta) began
        > to be doubted even more so.
        >
        > When "God" (the Mahanta) is fearful and
        > needs metal detectors, searches, and a
        > security entourage one has to wonder
        > about the validity of this religion.
        >
        > Then, of course, we have the aging factor.
        > Other EK Masters live forever and appear
        > rather youthful while Klemp is pale, old
        > looking and wrinkled, grey-haired, and
        > balding... like anyone else! I'm surprised
        > that Eckists can't believe their own eyes!
        > What delusion! How does one rationalize
        > all of these facts and contradictions? Are
        > people that desperate and needy? Yes!
        >
        > Eckankar is just another feel good religion
        > with all of the rules and regulations and
        > busy work, guilt/fear, and ego traps that
        > all religions share. Every religion is unique
        > and that's why they attract a certain like-
        > minded group of individuals. Yet, all of
        > these believers think they are right and
        > everyone else is wrong and doomed! Unless,
        > of course, the sinner is converted. Therefore,
        > their "truth" must be shared with the world
        > in order to "save" the non-believer from
        > the negative effects of Kal, Satan, God, etc.
        >
        > And, in EK, there are "inflow" game points
        > (initiations and positions) to be achieved
        > while doing "God's" missionary (vahana)
        > work to help raise the world's consciousness
        > via this"outflow." The imagination is fun
        > and useful and necessary, but it can, also,
        > be a trap and a means of creating delusion.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        > jonathan wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus,
        >
        > I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn't trying to defend Eckankar
        > when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying to get into their
        > head to try to figure out what kooky reason they had for canceling it.
        > Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time engaged in that same process through the 29
        > years that I was a member
        >
        > I agree completely with your statement "Anyway, it just goes to show how
        > religions like to control their followers via rules, laws, guidelines, guilt,
        > and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone on their
        > "track."
        >
        >
        > As you stated, you and the other Eckists who were looking forward to the session
        > saw it as something innocent, and whatever energy was going to be brought to the
        > surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm glad you mentioned that because I
        > wasn't even thinking in those terms. Of course you were thinking in those terms!
        > You were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes, it does show how fanatical Eckankar
        > is when it comes to enforcing the rule "the teachings of Eckankar must be kept
        > pure."
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Ingrid and All, You have a point there. Why would the 9/11 terrorists, or their cohorts, want to bother with Eckankar? At the time I even thought the
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 4, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Ingrid and All,
          You have a point there. Why
          would the 9/11 terrorists, or
          their cohorts, want to bother
          with Eckankar? At the time I
          even thought the same thing!
          After all, we (Eckists) weren't
          even Christians! However, it
          was a good excuse to use for
          more detailed searches to
          look for recording devices.
          But, I'm thinking it had more
          to do with Klemp's paranoia...
          it was what L. Ron Hubbard
          would do without a 9/11!

          On another level, complying
          with the metal detectors and
          searches can be seen as KAL
          tests. It's the herd mentality too.
          If EKists comply and don't see
          the "spiritual" implications they
          FAIL the higher test! Detachment/
          Non-attachment to fear and
          other Maya is supposed to be
          the ECK Way! Thus, all current
          Eckists have failed the higher
          spiritual tests while passing
          KAL's tests of fear and illusion!

          Isn't it obvious how easily
          people today (Eckists included)
          comply (obey) and surrender
          their wills (freedom) to authority.
          However, going into a convention
          hall at a religious (EK) seminar for
          a talk shouldn't have the same
          security measures and connotations
          as entering a government building!
          Checking seminar badges should
          be enough security.

          It's all about control. The
          additional security measures
          that Klemp implemented, also,
          measured his ability to control
          his chelas and H.I.s.

          Irregardless, the ECK Dogma
          contradicts these extreme
          security measures. The implications
          of these contradictions (fear
          versus ECK) are right in front
          of every ECKist and yet they
          refuse to see! Instead, EK
          chelas follow the Judas goats
          (RESAs) and the rest of the
          herd (hierarchy).

          Isn't "Detachment" key?
          Isn't it true that there is No
          Death for Soul? Should "fear"
          rule the ECKists' Worlds or
          should "love" rule? Klemp
          talks the talk but doesn't
          walk the walk! He's a hypocrite
          and a KAL agent! Thus, his
          rapid aging and EMF disease
          etc... it's his karma for lying.

          ECKists should challenge
          these untruths and abominations
          that Klemp has established
          to, seemingly, "comply" with
          EK Dogma. Metal Detectors
          and Searches "contradict"
          EK Dogma! Klemp is the
          anti-Mahanta and a Black
          Magician... it's so obvious!

          I recall that at the Oct. 2001
          EWWS the metal detectors and
          searches bothered me, and
          there was no one that had a
          valid answer as to why it was
          being done. I guess they thought
          that it was obvious as to why
          and that no explanation was
          necessary. That might be okay
          for others (non-Eckists) but
          we (Eckists) were/are Soul and
          we had eternal life... there is No
          Death!

          And, (as ECKists) we had the
          "protection" of the LEM/Mahanta
          who was (supposedly) "always"
          with us.

          Why then metal detectors and
          searches, in Oct 2001, and years
          afterwards? I'm sure that this
          made most people feel more
          safe and secure, but it didn't
          make me feel that way. It made
          me doubt what I was being told
          in the EK teachings. I started to
          see thru the facade and make the
          connection that something was
          wrong... very wrong, and it didn't
          feel good!

          For years since 9/11 people arriving
          on busses at the EK Temple have
          had their bags searched and/or
          checked. I saw past the fear mentality
          and saw my religion, Eckankar,
          and my LEM/Mahanta falling short
          of the mark. It was disappointing
          to say the least and it bothered
          me even more so when this policy
          of perpetuating fear was continued
          year after year. Once was bad
          enough, but Klemp's paranoia
          and then Ford's revelations all
          added up to be too much truth
          to avoid seeing.

          Actually, Ford's book was the
          final straw. I was hanging on
          tight but could no longer avoid
          the cold hard truth! Klemp was
          a fraud and Eckankar was just
          another religious con designed
          by a narcissist and liar (PT).

          Actually, it seems that all three
          LEMs were/are narcissists and liars,
          as well as, unstable and delusional.
          ECKists use the term: "As above, so
          below," but does "fear" rule or even
          exist in the higher planes "above?"
          Why then metal detectors and searches?

          Prometheus
          p.s. And yes, HK's hand shaking, and
          rapid aging is another contradiction
          to the EK teachings. It's another in-
          your-face obvious truth that needs
          to be placed outside of one's scrutiny
          and avoided at all costs. Eckists simply
          can't and won't admit that they've
          been lied to. It's too easy and comfortable
          to believe what you're told, and too
          difficult to change. Besides, what do
          Eckists have to replace Eckankar with?
          Self-Mastery has less effort, but has
          too much responsibility!



          ctecvie wrote:

          Hello Prometheus and all,

          .... and, frankly, who would be interested
          in attacking a so-called "godman" from
          an unknown religion?? YAWN! :-D

          And yes, little Harry is aging, and shaking,
          and looking much older than any other 67
          (or so)-year-old! I guess ekkies just don't
          remove their pink glasses!

          Not to see means it isn't there! LOL!

          Ingrid

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Jonathan and All,
          > Yes, the attempt to do a "drumming
          > circle" was an innocent act, and it was
          > meant to be fun! And, I've been at ones
          > where there was NO chanting just drumming!
          > I find them interesting in that the drumming
          > (sound) starts out as individualized/group
          > chaos and then harmonizes into a Unity of
          > Consciousness. It's a metaphor... for the
          > spiritual life.
          >
          > Getting back to the use of fear and
          > control tactics of religions and of Eckankar:
          >
          > Did Eckankar use metal detectors at the
          > 2009 EWWS? I always thought that was an
          > over-the-top/knee-jerk reaction (a security/
          > fear tactic) for Klemp to use after 9/11.
          >
          > Why should "God" (the Mahanta) be fearful
          > of anything or anyone? Couldn't/wouldn't/
          > shouldn't Rebazar and the other EK Masters
          > manifest themselves to protect Klemp?
          > Shouldn't HK be able to protect himself
          > and his chelas on the outer, as well as
          > (supposedly), on the inner? HK states
          > that his "protection" is with his followers.
          > But, where's the proof when H.I.s are dying
          > of cancer etc. Actually, this is proof that
          > Klemp is a liar. Guilt puts blame on the
          > chela/H.I. for the cancer (besides, it's a
          > "test" of faith) while Klemp dodges his
          > promises and responsibilities.
          >
          > However, doubt began to creep into Eckists'
          > consciousness when the "metal detectors"
          > and "searches" began. This created more
          > questioning of Klemp's abilities, and his
          > truthfulness (as the LEM/Mahanta) began
          > to be doubted even more so.
          >
          > When "God" (the Mahanta) is fearful and
          > needs metal detectors, searches, and a
          > security entourage one has to wonder
          > about the validity of this religion.
          >
          > Then, of course, we have the aging factor.
          > Other EK Masters live forever and appear
          > rather youthful while Klemp is pale, old
          > looking and wrinkled, grey-haired, and
          > balding... like anyone else! I'm surprised
          > that Eckists can't believe their own eyes!
          > What delusion! How does one rationalize
          > all of these facts and contradictions? Are
          > people that desperate and needy? Yes!
          >
          > Eckankar is just another feel good religion
          > with all of the rules and regulations and
          > busy work, guilt/fear, and ego traps that
          > all religions share. Every religion is unique
          > and that's why they attract a certain like-
          > minded group of individuals. Yet, all of
          > these believers think they are right and
          > everyone else is wrong and doomed! Unless,
          > of course, the sinner is converted. Therefore,
          > their "truth" must be shared with the world
          > in order to "save" the non-believer from
          > the negative effects of Kal, Satan, God, etc.
          >
          > And, in EK, there are "inflow" game points
          > (initiations and positions) to be achieved
          > while doing "God's" missionary (vahana)
          > work to help raise the world's consciousness
          > via this"outflow." The imagination is fun
          > and useful and necessary, but it can, also,
          > be a trap and a means of creating delusion.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          jonathan wrote:
          >
          Prometheus,
          >
          I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn't trying to defend
          Eckankar when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying
          to get into their head to try to figure out what kooky reason they had
          for canceling it. Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time engaged in that
          same process through the 29 years that I was a member
          >
          I agree completely with your statement "Anyway, it just goes to show
          how religions like to control their followers via rules, laws, guidelines,
          guilt, and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone
          on their "track."
          >
          >
          As you stated, you and the other Eckists who were looking forward
          to the session saw it as something innocent, and whatever energy was
          going to be brought to the surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm glad
          you mentioned that because I wasn't even thinking in those terms. Of
          course you were thinking in those terms!

          You were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes, it does show how fanatical
          Eckankar is when it comes to enforcing the rule "the teachings of Eckankar
          must be kept pure."
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